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Would you continue to pay your taxes/support your government once the coverup is revealed?

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posted on Sep, 13 2003 @ 05:15 PM
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As the topic states, given that a more peaceful introduction to extraterrestrials happen, would you continue to support your government and pay your taxes?

This is for any country. They're all in on it.




posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 12:19 AM
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Taxes go towards funding:

-Roads and Waterways
-Research and Schools, Colleges
-Law Enforcement
-Search and Rescue services
-Disaster refief
-Arts and Humanities
-Large scale building projects
-Social Security and Welfare

Ok, so, in the United States, a great deal of your day to day needs are supported by taxes you have paid to your individual state, that is, your kids go to a school provided by your local school district, your streets are paid for by your city or county, etc, etc... But, many people don't realize that the things that tie everyone together... and advance our society... are supported by the Federal government. Yes, states fund their individual universities, but the big-time grants that actually advance research at those institutions usually come from the Federal side of things (or a corporation that can only exist in a world where its assets are protected by the Federal government).

Yes, I know its "your money" and not the government's which is doing all this... But, still, no matter if you tear down the government, whatever you put in its place will still have to raise taxes to do the same things.

And... destroying the Federal government and relying on super state governments only will just result in a fractured, regionalized, and nearly feudal government. This is more so if you think we should go entirely private... A society where all things are funded through private sources would, eventually, devolve into one with mercenary, elite, and detached warrior castes and landless, toiling, peasants.

My suggestion: When the truth comes out, investigate and punish those who have commited crimes or subverted the nation. Tear holes into the Defense Department. However, there is no reason why things like health, education, and transportation should suffer.

[Edited on 14-9-2003 by onlyinmydreams]



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 12:28 AM
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Yeah, i also have this funny feeling that heelstone didnt know what for are taxes used..


Not paying taxes at any situation, is like you would steal from yourself.. or something alike.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 12:32 AM
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I didn't want to break it down into state and federal taxes as that doesnt apply to everybody.

Yes, I know the need to maintain order and the repercussions of destroying any current government. People will suffer as a result. The way I see it, if the truth of the matter ever gets revealed (before the nation dies in bankruptcy), I don't see anybody able to put trust into the government again. I'm certain when the truth is revealed, there will already be a plan put in place to aprehend negative reaction by peace or by force.

As OIMD suggests, an investigation and removal of people and infrastructure related to the debacle would be a good way of going about it. I just don't think that could ever happen given how all other investigations regarding cover ups in the U.S. have resulted in very little real change. A secret of this magnitude is bound to come with higher repercussions for the parties involved, but that is no guarantee anything will be done. Which history has shown is what usually happens.

[Edited on 14-9-2003 by heelstone]



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 12:59 AM
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And it's called a national SALES TAX... If you BUY something (spend the money you made) you will ppay tax THEN.

THis system works on ALL levels, let's take the obvious first...

Apponents claim that if you SAVE your money you won't pay any tax... BUNK... You'll pay tax on your electric bill, water, etc... PLUS if you are a hermit, you are not USING the services anyway.

Local school taxes are currently paid via PROPERTY taxes on the house you own (hell on one of my old houses it was nearly $1,000.00 a month!) that's as it should be... When I hear people with "no kids" bitch about school taxes on their houses I laugh! Think of your neighborhood with NO SCHOOL buddy!

The "federal income tax" is an illegal (SHOW me a law that compels us to pay ONE CENT and I'll hire you as my tax attorney) left over from World War one...

My tax attorney spent 22 years with the IRS as an attorney and CAN'T even describe the law much less show it to me in a law book! Not to mention the Fed Ex Pilot who recently WON her case against the IRS (she hasn't paid/filed a return since 1997! Over $700,000.00 in income!) is off scott free!

A national sales tax is what the answer is! Then everybody PAYS based on what they spend! Not what they earn! What somebody earns is IRRELEVANT! What you spend (that actually COSTS the government any money in services, maintainence, etc...) is directly related to what you use! If you are a hermit and stay home all the time you are NOT using the streets, law enforcement, education services (I figure if you never get out you won't ever have KIDS!
not that it matters since you are paying for education by owning a house/business property) or any of the other costly services...

Bottom line time...

If you make more money you are likely to SPEND more money... Thus you will pay MORE taxes under my plan. This does wonders for reducing the BULL# about "Tax Breaks for the Rich" and creates a more peaceful society...

A more peaceful society is a less expensive society! Yep... A national sales tax is the way to go... Imagine the ELIMINATION of over 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS wasted TRYING to collect taxes by the IRS. You read that right... That's how much of OUR money is soent a year TRYING to collect taxes!

Imagine the BILLIONS put BACK into the ECONOMY by virtue of NOT having to pay accountants and lawyers to make SURE you aren't paying too much! Just imagine...

PEACE...
m...



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 01:20 AM
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Well,

Inorder to pay for even the most necessary services (I'm sure you hate the National Endowment for the Arts, Springer, so I'll just throw that one out here for you) such a 'sales tax only' system would have to be based on massive taxes per item. Thsi would have two negative effects:

1)It would heighten the gap between rich and poor to an absurd level.
2)It would pretty much destroy trade and commerce.

#1 occurs because Rich and Poor will be paying for the same necessities. This won't matter to the person who starts off with great wealth, but it will matter to a poor or middle class person. They will be handing over a greater portion of their earnings than the rich person for the same goods. Meanwhile, his income untaxed, the rich person would make money at an unbelievable rate... until the point that even cruel sales taxes would not affect him. In the end, you'd have a distorted society that could not function.

#2 Occurs because people will now be buying less. There will be less demand for goods... as well as a lessening of variability in goods. Commerce shuts down... Permanent Depression follows.

But, Springer might say, he'll keep the new sales tax low by only providing ESSENTIAL services. Well... I hate to break it to you all, but the NEA is but a drop in the national budget's bucket. Research, infrastructure, providing ways of commerce, defense, and law enforcement cost mega bucks. Even if you stripped the military of all offensive forces and went to something like a national militia... well... I hope you like your technology locked into 2003 levels, because, now that commerce and research are both dead, you're going to be living with it forever.

What Springer doesn't realize is that civilization requires economic interconnection. The ideal of a completely independent man who can increase his own wealth in his own little universe is one better left to the late stone age.

By abolishing income tax and relying on sales tax:
1)A feudal society would develop
2)The poor and middle class would quickly fall into debt, increasing the wealth of those with enough wealth to surpass a critical survival line
3)The economy would become less diversified as only established and necessary goods are paid for.
4)All these things would result in lower levels of education for 90%+ of the population, resulting in a new dark age.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 01:20 AM
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A sales tax plan would be nice, but nobody could expose money related crime like drug sales or embezzlement. The current system doesn't do much of that either, but does catch some criminal activity. It would really only work if every purchase was scrutinized.

However, this is completely off topic and unrelated to this discussion.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 01:57 AM
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Sales Tax would be nice...if that was the only tax...problem is there tends to be other little taxes on the side.

Here in NZ we have a 'sales Tax' of sorts...but thats just yet another tax put on top of taxes you are already paying...

...so basically, you earn money...it gets taxed, hits your bank account, whoopsie, taxed on that too...you withdraw your money, taxed...go to spend it...TAX...wanna give it away? Hell...they'll tax your butt on that too...

...don't bother killing yourself, they'll tax your estate before your body is even cold...

...and you can bet they are figuring out a way to sneak in a Soul Tax to get you in the after-life...




posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:04 AM
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not nly do ppl have to not pay taxes we have to leave society if we wanna stop the NWO haha



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by heelstone
As the topic states, given that a more peaceful introduction to extraterrestrials happen, would you continue to support your government and pay your taxes?

This is for any country. They're all in on it.


What are you gonna do? Say no. Many of us have families. If you were alone I could see saying no but, you are trying to raise your people, your family, in the best environment. You stop paying taxes and they take everything away from you and wait for the interest on the debt.

Not that this happened to me but I know of another that pays $6,500 on his mortgate (yeah, that's ridiculous---even for me). He has 5 kids. He was a bit late on the tax. They had his house in the newspapers for sale the next month. He paid.

They got us by the balls.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:13 AM
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I assume you SLEPT through Econ classes IF you ever took them...

THAT was the MOST misleading, uninformed, UNSUBSTANTIATED load of HORSE HOCKEY I have EVER read!

PLEASE! Have MORE RESPECT for the readers! HELLO?! A "working class" person who KEEPS ALL of their paycheck IMMEDIATELY starts out WITH MORE MONEY than he does today. A HELL of ALOT more!

I assume you subscribe to the Karl Marx school of economics based on what you have stated here, is this correct?

P...
m...



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Springer
I assume you SLEPT through Econ classes IF you ever took them...

THAT was the MOST misleading, uninformed, UNSUBSTANTIATED load of HORSE HOCKEY I have EVER read!

PLEASE! Have MORE RESPECT for the readers! HELLO?! A "working class" person who KEEPS ALL of their paycheck IMMEDIATELY starts out WITH MORE MONEY than he does today. A HELL of ALOT more!

I assume you subscribe to the Karl Marx school of economics based on what you have stated here, is this correct?

P...
m...


Dude, I hope you're not talking about me because I have no idea what you're talking about.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:17 AM
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Oh, its OIMD. My fault. I'm drunk again. So, evderything is about me.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:20 AM
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I just can't HELP but find HOLES in virtually EVERY word you wrote!

A guy, who NOW hands over 30% PLUS to the feds, THEN pays an ADDITIONAL 8% (38% total CURRENTLY and I am being conservative) is going to have LESS MONEY (according to YOU) than if he were to pay a FLAT 18% sales tax?!???!?! Wild man...

Must be "New math"...

PEACE...
m...



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:25 AM
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I just CAN'T STOP!!!! So tell em how a guy who "is getting rich" (that's BAD in YOUR world?!) is goig to keep getting richer by what?! Dude, if EVERYBODY pays 18% of their income, there is NO MORE "tax breaks for the rich" !!!!


HELLO?

You getting this?

P...
m...



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:34 AM
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Springer: Maybe you should open an acount overseas? its easy. I don't have one but I suppose its just as easy as...opening an account?



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 02:40 AM
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Been there. done that... In the end it's not owrth it for ANYTHING beyond "survival" money... You can't day trade it because they KNOW you re-patriated the funds and TAX you broke~!

P...
M...



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 03:15 AM
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Post some math.

18% on $20,000 = $3,600

18% on $150,000 = $27,000

That's why there is no flat sales tax. And why do corporations only pay 15% when individuals pay 30%. I guess they are telling us to get a corporation.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Springer
Been there. done that... In the end it's not owrth it for ANYTHING beyond "survival" money... You can't day trade it because they KNOW you re-patriated the funds and TAX you broke~!


That's why you set up a corporation say in Nevada. Then set up an offshore corporation that handles all management and accounting for your Nevada corporation. That money is tax deductable federally and there is no Nevada income tax for corporations. All you pay is a sales/use tax for any products sold in Nevada.

And sorry for the last post. It wasn't thought out. That was more in lines with a flat income tax not a sales tax.



posted on Sep, 14 2003 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by Springer
Been there. done that... In the end it's not owrth it for ANYTHING beyond "survival" money... You can't day trade it because they KNOW you re-patriated the funds and TAX you broke~!

P...
M...


Me and you are gonna have ta talk. I don't do day trade and i don't do finance. (Why do you think I went to law school---because I know math????) I do the English language so that's how I can spin words to however I feel, I do strategy (they taught me that in law school), and I like to war.

The finance part I was trying to learn under Clinton b/c we had money. I bought stocks on splits because I wanted the split (I had a split calendar) to double, etcetra, etc. I sold BUD (which split) to buy my wife "bling bling" and she's happy.

But, I did it to learn on my own--no cheesy broker. So, you bring me more. For what I want to know, I will answer your question to the best of my ability. If I cannot, I will guide you to the answer. (Ummm.You have lawyer worker for free, Bud). Just do u2us, ok?






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