F-19A Specter Stealth Fighter

Actuallly there is a perfectly valid reason for Gen Bond to have been killed flying a Mig-23. At the time, he was head of Air Force Systems Command, and AFSC was involved in technical evaluations of acquired foreign aircraft. Both TAC and AFSC studied and flew the MiGs

Originally posted by firepilot

Actuallly there is a perfectly valid reason for Gen Bond to have been killed flying a Mig-23. At the time, he was head of Air Force Systems Command, and AFSC was involved in technical evaluations of acquired foreign aircraft. Both TAC and AFSC studied and flew the MiGs

Thanks for your input firepilot. It was my understanding that Gen. Bond had flown the Russian inventory years before that. But you probably know more about Gen. Bonds death and the crash of the F-19 than I do. Or at least you are alleging that you do. Thanks again.

AFSC Vice Commander Lt. Gen. Robert M. Bond visited the Groom Lake facility on 26 April 1984 for two orientation flights in a MiG-23. While making a high-speed run during his second flight, Bond lost control and crashed near Little Skull Mountain in Area 25 of the Nevada Test Site. He was killed while ejecting. There is a memorial marker where he landed.

He had previously visited the base on 15 March 1984 for two orientation flights in a YF-117A (serial no. 79-10782). The first flight took place in the morning and lasted 1.3 hours. It ended in a lakebed landing due to high crosswinds on the main runway. The second flight, in the afternoon, was uneventful. It lasted 1.6 hours.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
AFSC Vice Commander Lt. Gen. Robert M. Bond visited the Groom Lake facility on 26 April 1984 for two orientation flights in a MiG-23. While making a high-speed run during his second flight, Bond lost control and crashed near Little Skull Mountain in Area 25 of the Nevada Test Site. He was killed while ejecting. There is a memorial marker where he landed.

He had previously visited the base on 15 March 1984 for two orientation flights in a YF-117A (serial no. 79-10782). The first flight took place in the morning and lasted 1.3 hours. It ended in a lakebed landing due to high crosswinds on the main runway. The second flight, in the afternoon, was uneventful. It lasted 1.6 hours.

Thanks Shadow Hawk. I was wondering when you were going to surface on this thread. I would appreciate it if you would mention that if you had a clearance and if you knew about the F-19, that you would be prohibited from acknowledging that fact here on ATS whether or not you were still employed in any government capacity or not. Depending on who you worked for and what your clearance level was and depending on what your debriefing was you would probably actively engage in threads to deny the F-19, of which 62 airframes where made and which is operationed by the U.S. Navy and was built alongside the F-117A with the same engines, same landing gear and same basic airframe. Thanks.

...operationed by the U.S. Navy and was built alongside the F-117A with the same engines, same landing gear and same basic airframe. Thanks.

So you're saying it was actually a hopeless diamond derivative? I thought you had previously said that the airframe was rounded?

Originally posted by crusader97

So you're saying it was actually a hopeless diamond derivative? I thought you had previously said that the airframe was rounded?

It was not a hopeless diamond derivitive. The airframe was rounded. It looked very similar to the airplane in the Loral advertisement. When I say it used the basic airframe I mean real basic, centersection, gear placement of engines, vertical stabilizers but it did not look anything like the F-117A. The 2 airplanes were a real achievement in design because they were so different but had such a commonality of major parts.

John Lear, I'm finding this a fascinating discussion to follow, much more so than my own mundane contributions to this thread.

I am, however quite sceptical about the F-19, which you could say is a victory of sorts for your argument as I would previously classify myself as a 'firm disbeliever'.

Given my natural scepticism though the last couple of posts have raised a question which I wonder if you can answer?

I can accept the basic structure of the F-117 being used in an aircraft which looks quite different, this is entirely possible and not unique by any means. However, given that we have known about the F-117 for nearly 20 years, what is the benefit of this F-19 still being top secret when it has been left far behind by technology that is publically known?

I guess we will just disagree on this matter John. Got any good Adam West stories?

John, my recollection of artist concepts back then was of a ship that sort of remined you of a mini SR-71 in general appearance. It possessed some rounded shapes but there were integrated sloped features as well which are hard to describe with out an image. Being that there were some lower than usual radar returns associated with the SR it looked logical in hindsight after seeing the F-117 later. Does that make any sense?

Originally posted by Cruizer

John, my recollection of artist concepts back then was of a ship that sort of remined you of a mini SR-71 in general appearance. It possessed some rounded shapes but there were integrated sloped features as well which are hard to describe with out an image. Being that there were some lower than usual radar returns associated with the SR it looked logical in hindsight after seeing the F-117 later. Does that make any sense?

The Loral Electronics ad picture had the intakes on the top of the fuselage. The tail number was 071 (?). I think the ad was a mistake. In 1982 a friend of mine who was following the F-19 and had good contacts at the Skunk Works had his apartment broken into and all of his papers and models stolen. A few weeks prior he had sent me a black and white photo of the model he made. These are the 2 photos I have on my den wall in addition to the Loral Electronics ad.

I just looked at that Loral ad and the frame is the metal kind with screws. I'll see if I have time to take it apart and take it to Kinkos to copy. I would do a quickee here but the photo is 17 inches long

Originally posted by firepilot

Got any good Adam West stories?

MODS! MODS! ATTENTION! I've been stabbed in the back by firepilot!

Originally posted by waynos

I can accept the basic structure of the F-117 being used in an aircraft which looks quite different, this is entirely possible and not unique by any means. However, given that we have known about the F-117 for nearly 20 years, what is the benefit of this F-19 still being top secret when it has been left far behind by technology that is publically known?

As I have mentioned several times in these discussions about the F-19 it is not the techonology that is the secret of the F-19. It is the way they funded it and who it went to. Very few outsiders have the slightest idea at all what is in 'our' inventory. It is overwhelming.

The key to the deception is the F-19 and that is why it will be kept secret forever. If the F-19 were would be exposed there would be key Senators that would say, "Now wait a minute, I have all of these super secret clearances, I have been to Tonopah, Groom, Sandia and all the others and you have sworn to me that nothing else exists...where did this come from and how was it funded and why don't I know about it. This identical story happend to whatsiname, Senator Byrd's flunkie who came out to Groom and asked to see S-4. What S-4 they asked?

At that same time this guy had been told that Tonopah was inactive but what he didn't know was the American Trans Air was flying in there 12 times a day on another program. (I checked with ATA Ops that day and all flights were put on hold while that guy was at the test site.)

This guy was humiliated beyond all possible belief because he was able to turn up nothing 'super secret' but he knew it was going on. He knew congress had been hornswagled and there was nothing he could do about it. I will try and remember his name later today).

I think this all happened back in around 1990 after the Lazar story came out and Congress wondered, "Is there any possibility this could be real?"

1990 was the year a very intense security program was put into place. Much more intense than any before. Whatever measures they put into effect have worked very well. There have been no major leaks since that time. Even the Aurora which was a Mach 12/250,000 foot suborbital 'airplane' has been relagated to the files as 'rumor'.

Originally posted by johnlear
MODS! MODS! ATTENTION! I've been stabbed in the back by firepilot!

No, not at all. Someone on a different message board that had flown with you in the past said you had some kind of funny story relating to that person. I have no idea what it is, it just sounded like it was something funny. It if it something that shouldnt be brought up or is not something funny, then forget I mentioned it.

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[edit on 17-10-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by firepilot

No, not at all. Someone on a different message board that had flown with you in the past said you had some kind of funny story relating to that person. I have no idea what it is, it just sounded like it was something funny. It if it something that shouldnt be brought up or is not something funny, then forget I mentioned it.

I guess I am a little over sensitive. Adam West 'stole' my french wife in 1966. She filed for divorce from me in 1968 and it was final in 1970. They married a couple of months later. It was a very unhappy time for me. They have been married since then and in addition to my 2 children have 2 of their own all grown. I remarried and have been married 35 years and have 2 children and 2 grandchildren.

The story is hilarious, unfortunately it cannot be told in public. I tell it to friends, usually late at night at 35,000 when we're bored out of our minds or in the bar after a few shooters. You are welcome to the story, but not here.

I am sure that is probably what it is about, and probably best that it is not mentioned on here.

It was an aviation message board, where some ex ATA and Rosie guys were on, and some knew you, said you were a damn good stick and they were glad to have gotten to know you.

Browno,

That bares an uncannie resembelance to the Blackbird in general shape. Did you ever think that it just might be a new Blackbird?

Tim

Originally posted by johnlear
As I have mentioned several times in these discussions about the F-19 it is not the techonology that is the secret of the F-19. It is the way they funded it and who it went to.

Good point John,

Now, just who is flying the F-19? Also, what are they using it for that makes it so critical to keep it hidden for all these years? Is it perhaps a Spy Plane?

Tim

[edit on 21-12-2008 by Cutaway]