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A Challenge for Christian Believers

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posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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I am wondering if any Christians, or even non-Christians who follow their religion could point out the following information for me as I am having trouble finding it, using inspired texts (scriptures) and solid, reliable sources that can only possibly come from God Almighty. Please, the more solid, honest, reliable witnesses to these sources the better.

1: That the Messiah prophecised in the bible has actually arrived. This "Jesus" character was not merely a prophet, but the Christ.

2: That if indeed "Jesus" (this is not his name) Christ was the Messiah, when his second coming actually occured, or are you still waiting? If you are still waiting, then doesnt that render his words recorded in the bible false?

3: A specific, explicit mention of THE Antichrist. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?

4: A specific, explicit mention of the Rapture. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?




posted on Oct, 6 2005 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Willow_Dryad
I am wondering if any Christians, or even non-Christians who follow their religion could point out the following information for me as I am having trouble finding it, using inspired texts (scriptures) and solid, reliable sources that can only possibly come from God Almighty. Please, the more solid, honest, reliable witnesses to these sources the better.

1: That the Messiah prophecised in the bible has actually arrived. This "Jesus" character was not merely a prophet, but the Christ.
I can show you scripturally where this is proven--but I need to compile it. It's not complex, I just want to be careful and present it soundly.
I'll be back with that.



2: That if indeed "Jesus" (this is not his name) Christ was the Messiah, when his second coming actually occured, or are you still waiting? If you are still waiting, then doesnt that render his words recorded in the bible false?
Another deep one. 'Second coming' doesn't seem quite right, in the sense most use. The full-force spirit of God, in His anointed, as prepared by Messiah, will return--actually is returning in these present days. It's an individual thing that will begin to manifest more and more prominantly in the coming years. I have a lot of scriptural support for this one, too.


3: A specific, explicit mention of THE Antichrist. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?
No, you're not missing anything.
It's not there.


4: A specific, explicit mention of the Rapture. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?
Same as above.

I'll be back tonight or in the morning with those scriptures for #1 and #2.




posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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Queenannie38,

I suspected it for some time but now I know you are indeed a heretic and a liar concerning the true Word of God. On the above four points you are deceiving the original poster on numbers two, three and four.

Your quote for point number two is new age garbage and has no support whatsoever in the Bible. Jesus Christ will return as the triumphant Lord and King of all the earth. He will come from the sky clearly visible to all with ten thousands of his Angels and Saints. The Beast and the False Prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever.

Jesus Christ himself will then set up his earthly kingdom which will last one thousand years. The nonsense that Queenannie38 is throwing at you is a new age set up! If you believe her you will be primed and ready to accept the antichrist when he steps out onto the world scene. I plead with anyone who would read this post to hear my warning against Queenannie38 and her terrible lies concerning scripture.

She has further trampled the Word of God by claiming that there is no mention of the coming antichrist in the Bible. The antichrist is mentioned many times in the Bible and I can prove her to be a liar on this matter. Go to the link below and type in the word antichrist. The link leads to a web site that has the entire King James Bible online and any word can be searched and found out. The coming antichrist is also spoken of in many other terms in several different books of the Bible.

She further leaves you in the cold concerning the rapture to come by stating that it’s not in the Bible. On this she is only half right. The word rapture doesn’t appear in the Bible but the concept of the word rapture is well attested to in scripture. Again she is trying to deceive you and lead you into darkness with her new age teachings.

If you seek the truth in these matters send me an email and I will point you towards the truth. I pray that you believe my warning concerning Queenannie38.

www.blueletterbible.org...




2 Timothy 4:1-4
I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Jesus Christ is God,

James



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Hi,

Thanks for replying. Can I ask what your source on the above information is? Thanks.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
I suspected it for some time but now I know you are indeed a heretic and a liar concerning the true Word of God.


Check out ATS's TOS as regards calling other posters names (even if you think it's true).

I don't know what the 'blue letter bible' is, but it also does not have "THE antichrist" in it. Do the search.

"The antichrist" is not found in the King James Version of the bible

'Antichrist' is mentioned several times in plural: 1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists;

and as an adjective: He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

and even an adverb: and this is that spirit of antichrist...



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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The antichrist is mentioned in the Bible in the singular. As you quoted from First John, I too shall:


18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.


John defines someone who is the antichrist as someone who doesn't believe in Christ. Yet, at the same time, he talks about the coming of the antichrist. No where that I've read does he refute this belief in the coming of the antichrist, but he goes on to explain that it is not a unique phenomenon. One will come to put the others to shame (in a prideful manner of wanting to be the "best" antichrist), and John explains this.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Willow_Dryad
3: A specific, explicit mention of THE Antichrist. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?

4: A specific, explicit mention of the Rapture. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?


An explicit mention of the antichrist is not there, but in Revelation it descibes the "Beast", the antichrist, whatever you want to call it. It should not take to long to find.
The rapture: as to that, I have no idea. I heard it was thought up in the 17th century to make people feel that, if they had enough faith, they could be spared the tribulation. It seems kind of pathetic, just go out with survival equipment if the tribulation comes.
You'll be needing it. Good Luck!!!



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Thanks again for the reply, but could you also give sources for your claims?



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
The antichrist is mentioned in the Bible in the singular. As you quoted from First John, I too shall:


What version of the bible is this?

Edit: OK. It's the New International Version, written in 1978. Somehow I don't think the original poster was asking about the 'disco era' version of the bible. I could be wrong, though.

[edit on 9-10-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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I got that version from the New International Version, but it's also there in the New American Standard Bible, The Message, The Amplified Bible (which has in brackets, "he who will oppose Christ in the guise of Christ"), The New Living Translation, King James Version, English Standard Edition, New King James Edition, 21st Century King James Version (doesn't have "the", but capitolized Antichrist), American Standard Version (no the, no caps, but singular), Young's Literal Translation, Darby Translation (again, no the, no caps, but singular), and I'm sure others. The passage, if you wanted to confirm, is First John 2:18.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Benevolent Heretic,

The word that she said was not in the Bible is, “antichrist” not, “the antichrist” don’t mince words. The discussion is a simple one either the Bible supports the concept of a coming world leader who will be evil incarnate or it does not. Queenannie38 then goes on to give the original poster false information concerning the true and simple doctrines of the faith. She has tried to hide under a veneer of Christianity but she is not a Christian.

As for name calling my reading of the TOS seems to be directed at general name calling like saying something like this, “you’re a stupid idiot!” or, “you are a pig faced jerk!” I’ve never used name calling in that fashion against anyone on these forums. But in Queenannie38’s case she has indeed lied so therefore she is a liar and it can be proven with objective evidence that anyone can investigate. She is also a heretic because she claims to be a Christian but does not hold to Christian orthodoxy.

Silly name calling is obviously against the TOS as it should be even though I’ve been called everything under the sun. If the powers that be still consider my comments against Queenannie38 out of line let them contact me and I’ll take my medicine.

A True Christian,

James



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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A quick link loaded with many hours of reading:

www.ankerberg.com...


That's just a tiny bite of information concerning the end times. I could drown you in books, videos and other writings on this well covered Christian subject if you really want to know the truth.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
Benevolent Heretic,

The word that she said was not in the Bible is, “antichrist” not, “the antichrist” don’t mince words.


You are mistaken. Read the first post again. The poster even emphasized "THE". They are looking for the phrase "the antichrist" in the bible. That's the question they asked. I'm not mincing anything here.

Queenannie38 has told the truth. That phrase isn't there in the KJV, anyway.


Originally posted by junglejake
The passage, if you wanted to confirm, is First John 2:18.


Check out my first post. It is a direct quote from the KJV, 1 John: 2:18. I have already confirmed (as my first post clearly states) that "THE antichrist" is not in the bible and that's what the poster asked. Emphasis on THE. Take a moment to read over the posts. And since you make a claim that it's in the KJV, at least you could back it up with a link or a quote or something. Is everyone just supposed to take your word?



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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Here is a link, sir. The King James version says "antichrist", not the antichrist. Interestingly enough, most people refer to me as Jake, not the Jake, and they don't refer to me as Jakes. Just something to consider.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Queenannie38,

I suspected it for some time but now I know you are indeed a heretic and a liar concerning the true Word of God. On the above four points you are deceiving the original poster on numbers two, three and four.

Your quote for point number two is new age garbage and has no support whatsoever in the Bible. Jesus Christ will return as the triumphant Lord and King of all the earth. He will come from the sky clearly visible to all with ten thousands of his Angels and Saints. The Beast and the False Prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever.

Jesus Christ himself will then set up his earthly kingdom which will last one thousand years. The nonsense that Queenannie38 is throwing at you is a new age set up! If you believe her you will be primed and ready to accept the antichrist when he steps out onto the world scene. I plead with anyone who would read this post to hear my warning against Queenannie38 and her terrible lies concerning scripture.

She has further trampled the Word of God by claiming that there is no mention of the coming antichrist in the Bible. The antichrist is mentioned many times in the Bible and I can prove her to be a liar on this matter. Go to the link below and type in the word antichrist. The link leads to a web site that has the entire King James Bible online and any word can be searched and found out. The coming antichrist is also spoken of in many other terms in several different books of the Bible.

She further leaves you in the cold concerning the rapture to come by stating that it’s not in the Bible. On this she is only half right. The word rapture doesn’t appear in the Bible but the concept of the word rapture is well attested to in scripture. Again she is trying to deceive you and lead you into darkness with her new age teachings.

If you seek the truth in these matters send me an email and I will point you towards the truth. I pray that you believe my warning concerning Queenannie38.



I'm sorry, but I gotta quote thses posts!




The word that she said was not in the Bible is, “antichrist” not, “the antichrist” don’t mince words. The discussion is a simple one either the Bible supports the concept of a coming world leader who will be evil incarnate or it does not. Queenannie38 then goes on to give the original poster false information concerning the true and simple doctrines of the faith. She has tried to hide under a veneer of Christianity but she is not a Christian.

As for name calling my reading of the TOS seems to be directed at general name calling like saying something like this, “you’re a stupid idiot!” or, “you are a pig faced jerk!” I’ve never used name calling in that fashion against anyone on these forums. But in Queenannie38’s case she has indeed lied so therefore she is a liar and it can be proven with objective evidence that anyone can investigate. She is also a heretic because she claims to be a Christian but does not hold to Christian orthodoxy.

Silly name calling is obviously against the TOS as it should be even though I’ve been called everything under the sun. If the powers that be still consider my comments against Queenannie38 out of line let them contact me and I’ll take my medicine.



This is why some people on here make us look not to good when we post in said topic. As for Queenannie's second point, i've got som bad news for you because the Christ is already here. Even though He is already here, He is not in the mainstream as of right now. Here is where you are correct Machine, the Anti-Christ is in fact mentioned in the Holy Bible. For all we know, george W. Bush could be the Anti-Christ in disguise. What most Christians do not know is that the Anti-Christ is also mentioned in the Bible Code that was enscripted in the Torah.

For further reading Machine, I suggest that you read "The Bible Code 1 and 2 both by Michael Drosnin. Oh and by the way, Michael Drosnin IS NOT a Christian as far as I know.



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Willow_Dryad
1: That the Messiah prophecised in the bible has actually arrived. This "Jesus" character was not merely a prophet, but the Christ.
Here are some the messianic prophisies that were foretold in the Old testement and fufilled in the new.
www.jesus-is-lord.com...

2: That if indeed "Jesus" (this is not his name) Christ was the Messiah, when his second coming actually occured, or are you still waiting? If you are still waiting, then doesnt that render his words recorded in the bible false?

Actaully that was his name.. or the English equivilant of his Hebrew/aramaic/Greek name which means "Savior"

The second coming has not occured, I am not sure what you are saying, that the bible is false, when he hasn't come yet.

3: A specific, explicit mention of THE Antichrist. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?

In his letters St. John talks about "antichrists" who have already arrived in his day, not about the great Antichrist who was still coming. "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour (1 John 2:18). John mentions the great Antichrist only in passing. He then discusses antichrists of his own day. That is the poeople working against Christ. This is his point of reference in 1 John 4 and 2 John.

2 Thess 2 identifies a "Man of Lawlessness (v3)" who is often referred to in Christian literature as the Antichrist, Lutherans and many protestants belive THE antichrist to be the Pope. The Antichrist is allready here, and the hour is upon us (or we should act like the hour is upon us), we are jsut waiting for the Christ to come.

4: A specific, explicit mention of the Rapture. I cannot find one in the bible. Maybe I am missing something?

The "rapture" doesn't exist as a current reality; it is a future event. There will be a rapture. The word is derived from the word used in the Latin translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 for believers being "caught up" in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air when he returns on the Last Day. On the Last Day all believers, including those who have died prior to the Last Day, will be "raptured" (caught up) and brought into the Lord's glorious presence to live together forever. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is sufficient biblical support for this truth.

The many debates that take place concerning the rapture invariably stem from false ideas of millennialists and dispensationalists who separate the rapture from the Last Day and speak of the event as one that takes place at a different time. But no one who bases their theology on the Bible denies that there will be a "rapture."

Hope this helped



[edit on 10/9/2005 by Jehosephat]



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Benevolent Heretic,

I read the original post and I do see that she said, THE antichrist, but I still say you’re mincing words here. My reading of what she asked for was whether or not the Bible talks about the antichrist and it does. Her capitalization of the word, “THE” only places emphasis on what it is she is interested in which follows as simply, “antichrist”. For Queenannie38 to dismiss this as not being in the Bible is a lie. If she tries to say that the words, “the antichrist” are not in the Bible she is also a liar because several other bible versions have it that way exactly. Either way your word games fall short of the truth no matter which way you take it.

A true Christian,

James



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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I think people might be confused on thier definition of the Antichrist.

Think of antichrists as people opposed to Christ and leading people astray.

THE antichrist is metioned in passing in First and second John. But many belive THE antichist is the chief advesary of Jesus that will be defeated when Christ comes again



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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Jehosephat,

You are correct; the term antichrist is used to describe a certain type of spirit held in many people which is against God. It is also used to describe a man who will obtain global power in the last days. So yes, it is both an individual and a state of mind (spirit).


A True Christian,

James



posted on Oct, 9 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Machine
I read the original post and I do see that she said, THE antichrist, but I still say you’re mincing words here. My reading of what she asked for was whether or not the Bible talks about the antichrist and it does. Her capitalization of the word, “THE” only places emphasis on what it is she is interested in which follows as simply, “antichrist”.


Oh, really? That is hilarious! 'Your reading' of what she posted? There is only one reading:

A specific, explicit mention of THE Antichrist.

She asked EXPLICITLY.


Originally posted by gimmefootball400
This is why some people on here make us look not to good when we post in said topic.


Hey, nobody needs to make you guys look bad. It's clear Machine has interpreted the question (incorrectly), attacked another poster by calling them a liar and a heretic (which I think is a compliment, personally, but it was meant as an insult), then assumed motivation on the part of the original poster and the first person to answer.

If anyone makes Machine look bad, it's Machine.



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