Ok so you think that within the next 5 to 10 years there will be a great spiritual awakening. Well maybe, but if that’ so why do we need individuals
to mess with the occult?
Judging from the age we live in I think any spiritual awakening will come from scientific investigation. It’s the only language that most people
accept, and it’s the only way we can unite the world’s faiths. Because that's what the effect of a spiritual awakening will be. There are many
religions in this world and only the truth can unite them into one. Because that is the nature of both truth (and for that matter long lasting
deception). Its deception that divides today’s many faiths and it’s the truth that always bring deception down.
This is why I am in favour of our government doing research into the supernatural. The Soviets did it for militaristic reasons during the cold war,
and I suppose the Americans still do it today.
But where the truth exists it can be found. Science (of at least a sort) is the only thing that can demonstrate undeniably to today's many billions
that the supernatural exists, as well as where it leads. This may be the spiritual awakening you’re talking about, and if so is something I already
But to say a spiritual awakening will come from direct and personal acts of God himself-themselves is something I disagree with. “Acts of God”
happen on a daily basis, and they happen through the fact that both the past and future are already written…
It was scientifically proven in 1975 by Professor Carol Allie of the University of Maryland that just by travelling at any speed below the speed of
light you do move yourself into the future. Of course its billionths and billionths of a millisecond in every day life, but an established part of
Einstein’s theory of relativity which her experiments confirmed…
Good links, quickly mentions experiment
Talks of experiment
Talks of experiment
Talks of experiment and gives you loads of scientific detail
A more mainstream in depth explanation. Mentions experiment half way down
Now because the future is accessible surely it also means the past is already written (if only because the past was once in the future)?
Through logic and science astrophysics has already shown that time itself began at the start of the universe. It makes sense given that time without a
universe is almost contradictory in terms.
It also makes sense given that everything since the start of the universe has been a part of the same “divine” never-ending chain reaction.
Therefore if God(s) exists; and if they-he did create the universe, then everything that has happened since was already programmed into the universe
some 4.5 billion years ago (or whatever the age of our universe turns out to be). Since (for the reasons said) whatever created the universe also
programmed its future (although to what controlled degree remains slightly questionable).
So in a sense everything is an act of God, simply because everything is from the same “divine” never ending chain reaction (i.e. the start of the
universe and its time).
This is why I disagree with the idea that any spiritual awakening (in our lifetime at least) will come from direct, personal and undeniable acts of
If we want to find the answers to spiritual enlightenment then scientific investigation into the supernatural is a good place to start. And if the
answers are to come from science then it would explain exactly why it is that mankind’s enlightenment (and the unification of religion this will
cause) is set to happen in the future, and quite probably not so distant future.
If you disagree with me by believing that an expansion of man’s spiritual knowledge will come more from acts of God, than the facts that are more
within our reach now than any time before, you do so firstly in the face of…
1. (As said) everything is (in a sense at least) an act of God
2. There haven’t been very many (if any) of the types of acts of God you’re talking about.
3. And the question of: “why would God want to prove himself directly when he could already have done it through an expansion of knowledge he set
out in a future he caused for us some 4.5 billion years ago?”
Sure Aronolac; you probably can prove the existence of the supernatural through dabbling in the occult and other such things. Certainly you can always
prove it to yourself as many people have.
But you do it at the expense of the dangers I mentioned in my last (probably amongst others too).
But you also do it at the expense of another thing as well…
If (like you say) dark forces are “rebels” of a sort, then don’t you think that one of the best ways they could infer with the future God has
already set out for us is to interfere with it now?
How better then than to do this precisely by contacting human beings? Like the “butterfly effect” in the movie where time travellers drastically
alter the future by accidentally squashing one butterfly on a tour into the time of the dinosaurs, the repercussions of a demon (or whatever you call
them) from talking to a human being (so be it through the means of the occult) could be enormous each and every time.
If you hadn’t been spending time talking to a demon mimicking a dead relative on the Ouija board, or making a sacrifice (or any other such thing),
could you for example have bought a winning lottery ticket in the same instead, or had a car crash which “tragically” killed the next Hitler?
I would imagine that most of the time the repercussions from spending time talking to the supernatural directly are unlikely to be anything so sever.
But given all the millions of people throughout mans history who have messed with the supernatural I would imagine (that out of probability alone) for
a few of them at least the time spent talking to the supernatural would have led to consequences as sever in size.
And whatever the reasons of these “rebels” wanting to talk to you may be (be it in who they reveal themselves to be, or pretend to be) the
consequences and more importantly reasons for bothering to talk to you as a “mere” human being can’t be good. Surely some how as rebels the
reasons and things passed on by talking to you must lead to consequences that by one means or another are aided at undermining gods plan for the
future (if anything to serve their own means).
Also many dark forces also seem to have an impeccable knowledge of events yet to come in the future. Could they be equipped with this for a good
reason? (I.e. so they may know what in the future to mess-up).
Therefore if God wanted to reveal himself through human beings messing with the occult (as you seemed to be saying) then in my view at least it would
be a pretty stupid means of revealing himself. This is especially so when you take into account the individual risks (surely an indicator of
something?), the nature of the demons-rebels, and their likely consequences gained by them through talking to you.
It’s even an worse method of revealing himself when you think that given the future is already written (as said because you can travel to it) then
surely god can reveal himself just through mankind being allowed to naturally push the boundaries of his knowledge?
I dare say that any proper well funded research into the supernatural would involve messing with the occult (but by no means necessarily), and that
the consequences of this could indeed be in conflict with any future God has set out for us. On the other hand it would be useful for the initial
stages of research at least. Furthermore greater longer lasting answers would be gained from messing in the occult for nationwide intended research
reasons, than those gained from individuals messing in the occult for personal reasons.
But granted just because I advocate greater state funded research into the supernatural does not mean I advocate messing with the occult; precisely
because of the unseen consequences this could cause through the contacting and communication with “dark forces”. There are other ways like
telecommunication, probability assessment which through perhaps (in their nature) close to the practices of the occult, are also at the same time
quite different given that they do not specifically involve contacting any time of one entity or the other.
Certainly in any supernatural research the consequences from messing with the occult would most predictably be designed by a “rebel” entity to
derail the research, as well as perhaps for other far worse consequences.
But do you agree that the state should engage in greater supernatural research for greater public understanding of: God, the afterlife and man’s
relationship with nature and the creator’s creation (as well as other such things)?
I should remind you that this is something that (in my view corrupted) bible does say is a signature of the so called “anti Christ”. But tell me
seriously what is so anti Christ about unifying the world’s religions through a greater expansion of truth?
Personally I think this is more likely to pull the rug from under the “anti-Christ’s” feet by derailing any lies and half truths he might
otherwise try to include.
Then again research by dabbling in the occult would give him a fresh opportunity to do this, but then again (as said) those means of research can be
largely (if not completely) avoided.
So what do think? Fund research into the supernatural or let mankind carry on the texts of hundreds of different faiths of different sizes and
(This thread doubles up as a reply to “Aronolac” on the “Dark forces in disguise” ATS thread: