How do you know the human soul exists?

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?
(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?
(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not?
(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?
(5) Assuming you do NOT believe humans have souls, what sort of proof would you accept to change your belief?
(6) Where was your soul before you were born?

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?

I see no evidence that any such thing exists, or that there is anything in a human being not ultimately traceable to the physiological. Not quite the same as a "no," more that I don't see how I or anyone can prove a negative.

In fact, I feel even more strongly that humans don't have souls than I do about the existence or nonexistence of a Deity, which I candidly feel is arguable. As a material being with direct experience of other material beings there should be some sort of direct evidence of a soul's existence, shouldn't there?

(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?

I believe Descartes considered some sort of gland as a "moderator" between the body and soul. Needless to say, I reject this. Again, I am struck by the fact that I "see" nothing about my behavior, my personality, etc., that cannot ultimately be traced to the material. If someone shoots me full of drugs my behavior and personality change radically. If someone gives me a frontal lobotomy my personality (such as it is) is, in essence, gone. My body would doubtless eat, sleep and excrete, but I can't imagine that anyone would consider the "me" of me to still be there. Or at least I hope they wouldn't.

As to the "compenents" of a soul, I guess it would be possible that your soul simply acts as a passive recorder of all the events of your life, after which you're judged or reincarnated or bounced off to Nirvana. Yet this doesn't seem, to me anyway, to be how the average person views a soul. And yet I've never heard a satisfactory answer as to what positive characteristics a soul has that can't be traced to the mind or body.

(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not?

After all, why should it be eternal? Why couldn't it (assuming it does exist) pass through or reincarnate through a few different bodies and then dissolve. Or exist for a bit as a separate entity in some sort of spirit world and then dissolve. (This last is what the late Stoics believed.) Simply because something is immaterial there's no reason to presuppose it should therefore be eternal. Or is there?

(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?) Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?

I'm quite curious about this, assuming we do have a soul. After all, either our soul is affected by our body or it isn't. And if it isn't, why should it be the soul that gets judged? Or reincarnated or what have you. Are the severely retarded suddenly geniuses? Are the senile rolled back to before they were afflicted?

(5) Assuming you do NOT believe humans have souls, what sort of proof would you accept to change your belief?

I don't know, sad to say. I guess it would have to be something along the lines of such-and-such has no physiological compenent, but that it is observable, testable, etc.

(6) Where was your soul before you were born?

I guess this another way of saying I'm wondering if souls are uncreated and eternal (rather like the common definition of God) but get stuffed into your body at conception or some other point, after bouncing around heaven or wherever since the universe came into existence. Or that they pop into existence at conception and then exist for all eternity (which I guess would be make them less than eternal?) or perhaps something else? That God whips up a soul or two and gives them a millenia or more of instructions before turning them loose on the earth? Sort of a soul bootcamp. Makes as much sense as anything else, in my view.

Well?

[edit on 9/24/05 by eeper69]

[edit on 9/24/05 by eeper69]

Originally posted by eeper69
(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?

I see no evidence that any such thing exists...

"As a slave-owner, I am quite sure that human beings don't have souls, but are merely a form of talking ape. Thus I may do with them as I please.

"As for you... get back to work, you idle worm!"

I have never quite understood why people who are socially insignificant and at the mercy of the rich and powerful repeat the excuses used by those beyond the fear of punishment to justify their maltreatment of their fellow man. Is there a single bloodsucking drug baron or pimp who would not agree with every word you said?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

1) Yes, I believe humans have souls.
2) I have no idea. I suppose that the 'body' can be defined as everything that remains after death; the bones, skin, organs, etc. The 'soul' is whatever part of you is no longer present after death.
3) I believe the soul is eternal. The reason I believe this is because I accept the Bible's teachings as true.
4) I think that any kind of disability like alzheimers or mental retardation is removed once you die. It is the body that has alzheimer's or whatever other problems, and when the soul leaves after death, it doesn't take the body's problems with it. I think that your consciousness will otherwise be essentially the same as it was in life. If you are intelligent, you will be intelligent in the afterlife; if you are a jerk, you will still be a jerk; if you have a great sense of humor, you still have that; essentially, you have all the mental faculties, memory, and personality you had in life, only without any of the handicaps imposed by flesh. I have no idea if the soul can leave the body before death.
5) n/a
6) I think that God created people's souls before sending them to earth, so that they were with God before they were born. For how long, I don't know, but I think it was probably eons. I think that God sends people to earth to test them, to see if they are worthy to get eternal life and be in Heaven with Him forever.

I have no proof of any of this stuff. The six points above take into account Biblical teachings, as well as my own reasoning and opinions. Assuming the Bible is correct, then I think that most/all of my points are correct, also.

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls? Yes, it is what makes us differant then animals
(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body? Scientists have been able to measure a 'soul' using a scale during the time of death of a person. Beyond a small mass, I do not know
(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not? Yes, because with them you can have enternal life
(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)Could the soul possibly leave the body before death? You would become perfect, the way God intended you to be, and be able to enjoy that perfection if you belive in the Christ

(6) Where was your soul before you were born? With God, who knew my name before I was concieved.

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?
I believe that human beings are souls. We are souls (or spirits) in posession of a mind and a body. These are our tools, our vessels we use to get around here, to experience and learn things.

(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?
I believe that the soul is not a physical thing, so there is no need for a line between the soul and it's body. The soul is the observer of my existence whether it be here or elsewhere. It is the 'me' that goes beyond life, beyond physical.

(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not?
I believe my soul is eternal. Why? Probably mostly because I want to. But I have reason to believe that something exists after this life, so I think I will, too.

(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?
I believe that the soul is perfect. Any physical issues (body or mind) will be left behind in the physical realm. I think, since the soul is not physical that it exists both in and out of the body during life. Physical life is what keeps the soul 'connected' to the body and mind, but once life is gone, the soul has no need for the current body or mind.

(6) Where was your soul before you were born?
I think it was in the same 'place' it will be when I die. In pure Love. A dimention or plane that we, with our physical minds cannot really comprehend. I believe we are all connected to some one entity (perhaps it's Love, or perhaps just the unity of all) but maybe that's where the soul 'goes'. Maybe to move on to a totally new experience or to re-experience this life through another avenue.

Good, interesting questions.

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?
I will define the word soul as matter controlled by my consciousness that is not in the physical dimension. I do believe humans have souls.

(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?
The components of a soul include all 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th dimensional bodies. The bright line is in between the 3rd and 4th dimension.

(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not?
The souls I talk about are not eternal, there is however a part of you that is, your consciousness.

(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?
You either gain conscious control of your astral or causal bodies depending on your spiritual progression. The diseases present in your physical body are not shared by your astral and causal counterparts.

(6) Where was your soul before you were born?
In their rightful dimensions.

Thanks a lot,
AkashicWanderer

Originally posted by eeper69
(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?

Yes

(2) What are the the compenents of a soul?

I think it is just one thing: 'mind'

Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?

Hopefully it is fading--I don't think it is a 'bright' thing, but rather the edge that delineates the idea behind 'the valley of the shadow of death.'

(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal?

It is a possibility and the ultimate goal.

Why or why not?

For 'yes', I'd say it is because if one conceives of that which is beyond the bounds of the material, physical body, it is essentially beyond the bounds of time and finite existence, and therefore isn't so much a case of becoming eternal, but rather more like awakening to true existence/reality unbound by material limits.
For 'no', I'd say that is, at worst, a temporary affliction that each individual hinders themselves with to a varying degree by resisting progress beyond tactile sensory based awareness.

(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)

A totally free one. Whoever you essentially are, all through your healthy portion of life. You know, the part of 'me' that each of us has inside us--the one that always feels the same age and is just 'you.'
I have taken care of many Alzheimer's patients, and other types of dementia--I don't think that temporary condition has all that much affect upon one's true consciousness. Some people, for various reasons, exist in a state that is mentally (in the mind) far removed from the physical body inhabited by that consciousness. Autistic kids seem to be in that same wise, although not the same mechanism.

Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?

I think it can venture far from the body, when it is sleeping or maybe in trance--but I think there is truly what some have called 'the silver cord', that which 'ties' your mind(soul) to your body--the presence of which is what we call 'life.' If that cord is severed, then we die, as far as our material components.

Actually, more like that which electrifies and sparks us is removed from our physical framework and function, and so with that energy removed from our carbon-based organic ' self, it 'dies' and re-enters the physical universe's 'food-chain'. The body, then, no longer has life, but by no means should we assume that the life it had no longer exists just because it doesn't. Actually that invisible animating principle, that makes us 'living souls', is the defining factor. And so when removed from that source, our bodies become without life--because our souls do not depend upon our bodies in order to exist or thrive.

(5) Assuming you do NOT believe humans have souls, what sort of proof would you accept to change your belief?

N/A

(6) Where was your soul before you were born?

Probably a bit part of the one Big Mind--but an unaware part. When I become consciously united with the One Mind again, I will be aware. We all will be.

Originally posted by eeper69
(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?

No, but further, I believe the definition of "soul" is inconsistent.

Originally posted by eeper69
(5) Assuming you do NOT believe humans have souls, what sort of proof would you accept to change your belief?

First, a consitent definition would have to be provided. I have yet to see one. Assuming it could be provided, proof of the supernatural would be implied by the definition, so nothing futher would be required. A consitent definition would compell belief unless it is purely natural.

Originally posted by roger_pearse
"As a slave-owner, I am quite sure that human beings don't have souls, but are merely a form of talking ape. Thus I may do with them as I please.

"As for you... get back to work, you idle worm!"

I have never quite understood why people who are socially insignificant and at the mercy of the rich and powerful repeat the excuses used by those beyond the fear of punishment to justify their maltreatment of their fellow man. Is there a single bloodsucking drug baron or pimp who would not agree with every word you said?

How does an appeal to consequences reveal truth? I have observed that your defense seems to rest on your perceived consequence of lack of faith from a moral perspective. But that is no defense at all, it's an appeal.

What metaphysical use is all your knowledge of the early church, if you resort to logical fallacies to discern truth?

Originally posted by spamandham
First, a consitent definition would have to be provided. I have yet to see one. Assuming it could be provided, proof of the supernatural would be implied by the definition, so nothing futher would be required. A consitent definition would compell belief unless it is purely natural.

That is a non answer, and an attempt at answering the question with an evasive answer that provides no real explination.

The definition of soul we are talking about is what seperates a living person, from a dead person. the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life

But then again spamandham, it has been proven you don't even bother to use a dictionary anywaz, so how can you accuratly say there isn't a consistant defitinion?

Everyone else, I really enjoy reading some of your answers, and hope others do the same

(1) Do you believe human beings have souls?

Yes, yes I do. I see the soul as a form of energy, and as such it's sort of ever-changing. Adapting, if you will.

(2) What are the the compenents of a soul? Where is the "bright line" drawn between the soul and the body?

Why must there be such a "bright line"? The components perhaps don't matter to me, for the most part.

(3) Assuming you believe humans have souls, do you believe your soul is eternal? Why or why not?

The universe is eternal. All energy can do is change form - it doesn't really "begin" or "end" in the true sense of those words. So yes, the soul/energy would be eternal, and as with anything, it simply changes form over time (remembering that time itself is a human concept, when we get down to it).

(4) Assuming you believe humans have souls, when you die what sort of consciousness do you assume? (e.g. if you died after suffering from Alzheimer's for ten years is that how you'll spend eternity?)Could the soul possibly leave the body before death?

The body is just a shell - it's a temporary piece of the puzzle we're putting together at any given time. Once we die, we simply disgard that piece, and move on to the next piece ("stage"). As for the soul leaving before death - I honestly don't know. I've read Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, and yet the clinical part of me still heads more towards "most NDEs are easily explained by physiological responses...".

(6) Where was your soul before you were born?

I haven't the faintest idea!

My belief in the existence (or not) of souls doesn't depend upon knowing where my soul has been; I can only assume that I'm here because I still have an awful lot to learn.

As do most of us

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by roger_pearse
"As a slave-owner, I am quite sure that human beings don't have souls, but are merely a form of talking ape. Thus I may do with them as I please.

"As for you... get back to work, you idle worm!"

I have never quite understood why people who are socially insignificant and at the mercy of the rich and powerful repeat the excuses used by those beyond the fear of punishment to justify their maltreatment of their fellow man. Is there a single bloodsucking drug baron or pimp who would not agree with every word you said?

How does an appeal to consequences reveal truth?

Why should we only apply this approach to things in which we do not wish to believe?

What metaphysical use is all your knowledge of the early church, if you resort to logical fallacies to discern truth?

I'm sorry that you don't like the consequences of actions discussed. Most people think it exceedingly relevant to the selection of anything.

You do not, I note, address the point I made.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by roger_pearse
Why should we only apply this approach to things in which we do not wish to believe?

We shouldn't.

Originally posted by roger_pearse
I'm sorry that you don't like the consequences of actions discussed. Most people think it exceedingly relevant to the selection of anything.

Is it my fault most people don't think rationally?

Originally posted by roger_pearse
You do not, I note, address the point I made.

Which point would that be?

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by roger_pearse
You do not, I note, address the point I made.

Which point would that be? (etc)

Nothing in this post seems to require comment from me.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by roger_pearse

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by roger_pearse
You do not, I note, address the point I made.

Which point would that be? (etc)

Nothing in this post seems to require comment from me.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Yet you provided one anyway. Permanent ignore.

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by roger_pearse

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by roger_pearse
You do not, I note, address the point I made.

Which point would that be? (etc)

Nothing in this post seems to require comment from me.

Yet you provided one anyway. Permanent ignore.

The discourteous are often infuriated by the failure of others to behave as badly as themselves.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Now back to the topic at hand:

I suggest someone comes up with a definition of soul to be used in this post. I will use this one, although if someone else comes up with another one which the majority agrees with we can switch it.

Soul: (n) All matter, that does not reside in the physical dimension, that is controlled by your consciousness.

I think this is quite a fair and common question that most human beings ponder over atleast once in their existance. I've read all the responses and think they are great, in fact some are brilliant, especially the one from Benevolent Heretic.

It's hard to define something we cannot see with our eyes. Imagine spending your entire life blind, and just entrusting those around you and your other senses to give you a minds eye view of what certain things look like. So how can we know something is there much less know what it looks like without actually seeing it? By trusting our inner self and fellow humans and by faith and hope.

I've thought about what we would be without a soul, or what people would be without a spirit to guide us, and that perspective makes life and death seem utterly depressing. So I choose by faith and hope to believe that there is more to *us* than meets the eye

Originally posted by magestica
It's hard to define something we cannot see with our eyes.

Do you consider the astral body as part of the soul? If so then it is possible to "see" the soul while in an astral projection, or obe...

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer

Originally posted by magestica
It's hard to define something we cannot see with our eyes.

Do you consider the astral body as part of the soul? If so then it is possible to "see" the soul while in an astral projection, or obe...

No. I have thought about this for a while, and I have come to the conclusion that the astral essence is not the soul at all. I once read an informative book which was written by a Native American Medicine Man, and he talked about soul travel which is very different to astral travel. Anyway, the book prompted me to study more about the astral body and the soul and the relation of the two, if any...( And remember, I only said we cannot see the soul with our physical eyes, but we can see the soul in our minds eye.) There are numerous reasons why I think that the soul and astral body are not the same, the most significant reason is because the astral body can do certain things in the astral realm which I think gives no purpose whatsoever to the soul. It's difficult to explain, but I think that the soul has a separate purpose to the astral and *that* purpose is much much higher-in ranking than the lower level astral body/essence. I can go into this further if you like?