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Iraq: Brit Soldiers Dressed As Arabs In car Packed With Explosives Captured

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posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Cilandak

Some intelligence guys in a car get in a jam with some Iraqi police who are in bed with the Mahdi army and try to shoot their way out of trouble, they are captured and, under the terms of the occupation, should be handed over to the British Army who would then investigate and prosecute. Those are the rules.



THE RULES!!!! On the contrary, check guantanamo, no uniform = enemy combatant thus fourth "the rules" do not apply to the two.




posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Even if they didn't want to follow those rules, they were ordered to release them by their government, and refused. In fact the police drove through the city inciting a riot.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Darren Moss, denied that British troops were fighting Basra police.



Sounds like he's saying the police wern't involved to me



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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No he's not. Witnesses said that the troops were firing at militia and the police DURING THE RIOT, when they were at the police station. He's denying that the troops were firing at the police AT THAT TIME. No one has denied that the police were involved, if you had bothered to actually READ the links.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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So which one says,


Originally posted by Zaphod58
the police drove through the city inciting a riot.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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When British officials apparently sought to secure their release, riots erupted. Iraqi police cars circulated downtown, calling through loudspeakers for the public to help stop British forces from releasing the two.
www.washingtonpost.com...

What would you call it if that's not inciting a riot?



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Just wanted to say thanks to those that replied to my last post, although this thread is developing so fast it's lost to time already.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by redmage

Originally posted by Cilandak

Some intelligence guys in a car get in a jam with some Iraqi police who are in bed with the Mahdi army and try to shoot their way out of trouble, they are captured and, under the terms of the occupation, should be handed over to the British Army who would then investigate and prosecute. Those are the rules.



THE RULES!!!! On the contrary, check guantanamo, no uniform = enemy combatant thus fourth "the rules" do not apply to the two.


This could be one explanation for the reluctance to hand them over. The occupation phase is formally over, although of course in practice it's still an occupation. This is how they would justify holding the two. The motive would be being pissed off at this blatant violation of sovereignty. I'm not condemning the SAS guys, mind, just proposing an explanation, of sorts.

-koji K.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Touche, I stand corrected in regards to the post's article.

However, if the actions of these two are even close to as bad as the allegations, I can see their frustration. If the proof was to be ripped from their hands what were they to do. The troops had no masked men holding blades/guns to them in the pics, they were simply being detained and even the detainment is in debate, as for location, at the moment.

It is a terrible situation over there and the only true "winners" will be Halliburton/KBR and Bechtel with their inflated no bid contracts to rebuild.

[edit on 20/9/05 by redmage]



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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do Iraqi police hand over coalition forces to militias as standard practice? just askin.....



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
do Iraqi police hand over coalition forces to militias as standard practice? just askin.....


Haha...

they won't now, thats for sure. If they do, rest assured the "softly softly" approach by the British will swiftly and horribly come to an end.

If you are wandering what I mean, take a look and see how we dealt with certain elements in N.I when they got nasty.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
do Iraqi police hand over coalition forces to militias as standard practice? just askin.....


Is coalition forces opening fire in arab attire standard practice? just askin.....



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
Wouldn't that make them Enemy Combatants since they were not wearing their uniforms?

It wouldn't make them enemy combatants, since they're british and weren't doing anything.

HOWEVER, if they were up to something, then they are not protected by the international laws governing/protecting soldiers, yes. They can be dealt with however the iraqis choose, up to and including summary execution.

They were on an approved operation from their superiors

Its hardly relevant. When a soldier ditches the uniform they aren't soldiers anymore. Normally they're spies and can be executed on the spot, this situation is complicated because Iraq isn't at war with the british and the iraqi and british governments are freindly.


from teh jail break article:
Mohammed al Waili, the governor of the province, said the British raid was "barbaric, savage and irresponsible".

Along with an act of war/rebellion. WTF is going on?


paperplane_uk
and both sides are trying to spin the news

Its a little hard to spin british tanks smashing down a jail to escape two undercover agents who had killed and shot at some cops! Short of some incredible explanation from the MoD, or the execution by the UK of these guys as Rogue agents, well, why see it for anything other than what it is??

ignorant_ape
the alledged " vehicle full of weapons and explosices " has not been produced

Problem is, the guys who were invovled at all can't be produced now. Who knows where they are. I agree, there could be a rational explanation of some sort, but still, wtf?

zaphod58
Personally I think this was an intel operation gone bad.

You have absolutely nothing to base that upon.

cilandak
The two intelligence types should have been handed over to British Authorities, those are the terms of the occupation.

The occupation ended a long time ago, the coalition remains at the request of the Sovereign Iraqi Government, not the occupation authority, not the provisional authority, but the Free Iraqi Government. Those cops were police officers of the Free Iraqi Republic. There is absolutely no excuse for british special operation agents to fire/i] upon them. None that I can think of, short of them being fired upon first. If the iraqi government requested that they be released, well hell, they don't even have the authority to do that, they're just the central government, not the law, not the whole state. I haven't seen anything saying if the central government permited this to happen or not, tho it sounds like they might've. These two guys do not necessarily get the protections afforded to soldiers, inspite of whatever agreement the central government worked out with the coalition. They were out of uniform, and they shot at the authorities. They don't get to get broken out of jail, short of these local authorities being anti-government warlords.

Tehran maybe

Another completely baseless statement. It might very well be true, but you are going on absolutely nothing.

ultron
After troops broke into the police station to confirm the men were not there, they staged a rescue from a house in Basra, said the commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra.

'Sgonna take a little more than that.

devilwasp
Mabye you didnt notice the fact that they handed them over to militia forces?

We have been offered nothing to support that statement, and the story is suspicious. They used that much firepower to confirm that these guys were in some hostage house that they immeadiately went to? Remember this is all over the course of, what, a single day??

We need to see these soldiers, at the very least, regardless of their undercoverstatus, they apparently weren't very good at being undercover anyways apparently. And if these police were really moles from the militias, why'd the special ops guys (not special forces as people are saying no, merely, well, minimally, soldiers on a special operation) permit themselves to get captured? Seems odd, can';t imagine anyone would surrender to the militias. THen again, they themselves might've not known that the police were militiamen, but then again, that doesn't jive with the coalition, after loosing two local intelligence assests, racing to the house that they are being held at, knowing the ins and outs of the insurgency all of a sudden.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by redmage

Is coalition forces opening fire in arab attire standard practice? just askin.....


not if the SAS realize the Iraqi "police" are taking them hostages as bargaining tool to release some of their own militia leaders. maybe u like to know how much Iraq's police force has been infiltrated by the Shiite militias.....


makes u wonder why the SAS dont want to go with the Iraqi "police".



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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www.prisonplanet.com...


This has all the indications of a frame up.

This is made all the more interesting by the fact that early reports cited as originating from BBC World Service radio stated that the car used contained explosives. Was this another staged car bombing intended to keep tensions high? As you will discover later, the plan to keep Iraq divided and in turmoil is an actual policy directive that spans back over two decades.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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[size=20]PRISON PLANET

www.prisonplanet.com...


This has all the indications of a frame up.

This is made all the more interesting by the fact that early reports cited as originating from BBC World Service radio stated that the car used contained explosives. Was this another staged car bombing intended to keep tensions high? As you will discover later, the plan to keep Iraq divided and in turmoil is an actual policy directive that spans back over two decades.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
www.prisonplanet.com...


This has all the indications of a frame up.

This is made all the more interesting by the fact that early reports cited as originating from BBC World Service radio stated that the car used contained explosives. Was this another staged car bombing intended to keep tensions high? As you will discover later, the plan to keep Iraq divided and in turmoil is an actual policy directive that spans back over two decades.


all i see are their clothes and pictures of them getting beat up and the article mentions small arms weapons and communications equipment. but no bombs. i wonder.......



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

not if the SAS realize the Iraqi "police" are taking them hostages as bargaining tool to release some of their own militia leaders.


And where are the facts to support that they were "bargaining chips".
This is your oppinion not the facts.



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:43 PM
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Here is how it is reported on the BBC:



Basra drama - how events unfolded

Monday brought high drama in Basra, with the arrest of two soldiers, the storming by UK forces of the police station where they were held and their final rescue from the hands of militants.
It was also a day of confusion, with a succession of fast-moving events and conflicting reports.

BBC News Online traces the sequence of events as they unfolded.

Tensions were already high in Basra on Monday morning following the detention on Sunday of a senior figure in the Shia Mehdi Army, suspected of being behind a series of attacks on British troops.

Then two British soldiers, reportedly dressed as Arabs and driving a civilian car, attracted the notice of police at a checkpoint.

According to the Iraqi authorities they refused to stop, instead allegedly firing at the officers, killing one and wounding another. This has not been confirmed by the Ministry of Defence.

After allegedly declining to reveal their mission, the men were arrested and taken to the main Basra police station.

Basra officials said the men were working under cover, which the Ministry of Defence has not confirmed.

After learning of their arrest, the British military requested that they be handed over to coalition forces in accordance with agreed procedures.


The Iraqi government in Baghdad apparently agreed and ordered the handover, but this seems to have been disregarded by the police.

With fears for the prisoners' safety mounting, British troops surrounded the police station, setting up a cordon.

Iraqi demonstrators also started to gather, demanding the soldiers be kept in detention and sent to jail. Violent clashes broke out.

The troops were pelted with stones and petrol bombs, attacked with rockets and their armoured vehicles were set alight, forcing them to withdraw.

Photographs and video footage showing soldiers having to jump clear of the burning vehicles, one with his uniform ablaze, shocked viewers back in the UK.

Three soldiers were injured in the clashes - none seriously - and two civilians reportedly killed.

Iraqi police released pictures of two bearded men in seemingly bloodstained clothes - one with a bandaged head - who they said were the captured soldiers.

At 1630 BST, the British government issued a request that the faces of the two men be disguised by news outlets.


But they continued to refuse to comment on claims the men were special forces or working under cover, saying only that they were negotiating with the Iraqi authorities for their release.

Later, witnesses and Iraqi officials reported that British forces had used tanks to smash down a wall at the police station to free the arrested troops in a dramatic rescue.

The Iraqi governor of Basra, Mohammed al-Waili, condemned the action as "barbaric, savage and irresponsible".

Reports that as many as 150 Iraqi prisoners had also been freed were later denied by British and Basra authorities.

The British Embassy in Iraq confirmed the men had been freed and taken into British custody but gave no details of how this had been achieved.

But the MoD denied any knowledge of the police station being stormed, saying it understood the release had been negotiated.

It was not until a few hours later that the department admitted a wall at the police station had been accidentally demolished as troops tried to "collect" the captives, whose release had been negotiated with Iraqi authorities.

A spokesman said British troops had intervened after reports that militants had tried to spirit the men away as they were due to be released.

Finally, early on Tuesday morning, another version of events emerged.

Brigadier John Lorimer, commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra, said he ordered troops to storm the police station after being told the prisoners had been handed to "militia elements".

The MoD said an armoured vehicle had been used to break down a section of the compound wall so troops could enter.

A search of the building confirmed they were not there.

It is understood local police finally revealed their location at gunpoint, though no shots were said to have been fired.

The pair were eventually discovered in a house in Basra and rescued by troops.

The men were said to be in good health, but the incident has sparked concerns for the state of relations between British forces in Basra and the local police.

It has also raised questions about links between sections of the Basra police and the Mehdi Army militants.

Source BBC



posted on Sep, 20 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by redmage

And where are the facts to support that they were "bargaining chips".
This is your oppinion not the facts.


link

not my opinion, just sombody i heard from....



An Iraqi member of parliament, Ali Dabagh, said the Shiite militiamen from the Mehdi Army had attempted to take the British soldiers hostage to exchange them for two militia leaders arrested on Sunday by British forces in the town.




[edit on 20-9-2005 by deltaboy]




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