Iraq: Brit Soldiers Dressed As Arabs In car Packed With Explosives Captured

Whoa!? This thread is still going strong I see. Zaphod58, arguing with Syrian Sister's warped sense of reality is like shooting a rhino with a BB gun. She believes doves have teamed up with the terrorists to fight the infidels, I guess crapping on as many military vehicles as they can target (although the picture she provided as proof of the insurgent with a bird on his shoulder clearly showed the bird crapped on the insurgent), and she was not sure whether to believe stories of giant, chair sized spiders fighting along side of the insurgents. Surely you remember that, right SS?

But back on thread, this comes down to claims made by two parties. No proof, other than inconsistent claims made by possibly corrupt Iraqi police, has been provided that these men were up to anything more than intel gathering. But I guess there are many who want so badly to believe they now have the proof they have been searching for that the infidels are thirsty for the blood of Iraqis, that nothing will sway them from their belief. This story will soon fade, and they'll probably cling to a new one. Oh well.

Syrian Sister,

First off: You ask "how can you belive something which constantly lies, and distrust something that always turns out right?"

Well, I ask same question of you. How can you trust the reports of biased arab news outlets, that continually manufacture pure propaganda? Don't believe me, see a few examples of it yourself at: The Second Draft Or, more importantly, look at the case of Mohammed Al-Dura and his father who were killed not by the IDF, as the popular myth goes, but by Palestinian forces. (For those who haven't heard about how this story was cooked, read about it here: C.A.M.E.R.A.

Secondly: Why is that you believe the Islamic forces fighting in Iraq cannot be guilty of ANY wrongdoing? Couldn't one argue that you are naturally biased because of your religion and culture. Surely most of your opponents wouldn't claim that the coalition forces do nothing wrong. And yet even in the face of obvious evidence that radical Islamists consider suicide bombings as a legitimate tatic, you continue to insinuate that they are all "false flag" operations by the coalition forces. How absurd is that?

And lastly: You continue to ask why a group of insurgent infiltrators would chase down a car of fellow insurgents, but this question cuts both ways. Why would the "puppet" police detain their puppet masters? Wouldn't they have released them to fulfull their mission if this was the case? .... You see hypotheticals might sound cute but they'll get you nowhere in an analytical debate.

This incident is a perfect example of how individuals will believe what they want to believe. You assume that the story originally told by the police is completely accurate, and therefore refuse to give any credence to evidence to the contrary. However, I find it extremely ironic that you take the police's testimony as fact, considering that you find them to be "puppets" of the coalition. Your arguments are illogical and assume facts that are not in evidence. You demand pictures of the "safe house" (even though the "puppet police" who's story you completely trust, admits that the soldiers were not being held at the police station) and yet can offer no clear photos of the "bombs" that said soldiers allegedly had in their possession.

Your arguments are specious at best, and just plain ignorant at their worst.

FACTS ARE:

That these two men, were members of Special Foces, possibly SAS Commandos, and that they had a Conflict (or a Problem) with the Local Authorities - the Police and other Security Forces. They were possibly carrying some VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION or were on a VERY SECRET MISSION, considering that they were working undercover, dressed as local civilians. They just HAD to pass that checkpoint without being searched and the local police did not agree with that. The British Army then just HAD to Free them, so they can secure their Information or Secret Mission Details that these two Men carried with themselves. They just HAD to use every means they had at disposal to free them, even if that would cause riots and clashes with local CIVILAN population and/or Militia. They stormed the Police station, breaking the walls and smashing cars just to free these two Men.

So,
What Makes them SO SPECIAL (if you rule out that they are Special Forces) that the British were prepared to use such force and to break this fragile truce between the Brits and the Iraqi in Basra? Apparently something VERY Important. Other point is, that the power in Iraq is in Hands of local Militia and not in hands of any security forces, domestic or foreign. Which just points to one event, that is unavoidable as it seems: Civil War.

Originally posted by cargo
To the people who come into this thread claiming it to be overhyped, I remind you that you are on a conspiracy site and that this is an ideal conspiracy topic.

I also suggest you shut up and go bother a different thread.

I thought ATS's role was also to debunk BS. As the motto says DENY IGNORANCE

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by cargo
To the people who come into this thread claiming it to be overhyped, I remind you that you are on a conspiracy site and that this is an ideal conspiracy topic.

I also suggest you shut up and go bother a different thread.

I thought ATS's role was also to debunk BS. As the motto says DENY IGNORANCE

Absolutely right, though sadly a lot of people recently appear to be confusing 'proving a conspiracy theory at all costs' with 'denying ignorance'.

One has to wonder what the point would be of any site that 'proves' a conspiracy theory even when presented with evidence to the contrary, but then there are plenty of them around, like Prison Planet for instance.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by cargo
To the people who come into this thread claiming it to be overhyped, I remind you that you are on a conspiracy site and that this is an ideal conspiracy topic.

I also suggest you shut up and go bother a different thread.

I thought ATS's role was also to debunk BS. As the motto says DENY IGNORANCE

As it stands this is still in dispute, not BS.

One side says one thing, the other says another thing.

BTW: Think really hard about 'deny ignorance'

That is exactly what you are doing.

You are denying that you are ignorant, yet you really are....

A car driving through the outskirts of a besieged city opens fire on a police checkpoint, killing one. In pursuit, the police surround and detain the drivers and find the vehicle packed with explosives – perhaps part of an insurgent's plan to destroy lives and cripple property. If that isn't enough, when the suspects are thrown in prison their allies drive right up to the walls of the jail, break through them and brave petroleum bombs and burning clothes to rescue their comrades. 150 other prisoners break free in the ensuing melee.

Incredible, no? Yet this story took place in the southern Iraqi city of Basra recently. Violence continues to escalate in the breakout's aftermath... just not for the reasons you think.

You see, the drivers of the explosive-laden car were not members of an insurgency group – they were British Special Forces. Their rescuers? British soldiers driving British tanks.

www.thesimon.com...

[Mod Edit - Put quote into context. PLEASE add your own opinion/thoughts to any post you make. Do not just post quotes. Thank you, Jak]

[edit on 21/9/05 by JAK]

A car driving through the outskirts of a besieged city opens fire on a police checkpoint, killing one. In pursuit, the police surround and detain the drivers and find the vehicle packed with explosives – perhaps part of an insurgent's plan to destroy lives and cripple property. If that isn't enough, when the suspects are thrown in prison their allies drive right up to the walls of the jail, break through them and brave petroleum bombs and burning clothes to rescue their comrades. 150 other prisoners break free in the ensuing melee.

Incredible, no? Yet this story took place in the southern Iraqi city of Basra recently. Violence continues to escalate in the breakout's aftermath... just not for the reasons you think.

You see, the drivers of the explosive-laden car were not members of an insurgency group – they were British Special Forces. Their rescuers? British soldiers driving British tanks.

www.thesimon.com...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
That would be why I started out with PERSONALLY I THINK. Because that is my OPINION on what happened.

Usually people try to make their opinions based on something, rather than wild assed guesses.

They weren't AT the jail. They were at a SAFEHOUSE that was operated by the militia. They were originally taken to the jail, but most of the police force has been infiltrated by the militia.

Not according to the article agent smith reported.

Second, They were SAS.

No one has said that they were SAS.

they're NOT going to miss

And yet they permited themselves to be captured by, according to some of the ideas being floated, known militiamen masquerading as police?

ss
THE TWO SPIES WHER DRESSED AS MEHDI ARMY RESITSANCE FIGHTERS

There is no uniform, these guys were wearing a black shirts, and the pictures oddly show that they were wearing combat fatigue pants and army boots.

rogue1
I thought ATS's role was also to debunk BS.

I think what cargo means is that the people who are saying 'this is nothing, don't discuss it' are the ones that should be ignored, whereas the people who are making arguments for either side are the ones who should continue to participate

Originally posted by ArchAngel
BTW: Think really hard about 'deny ignorance'

That is exactly what you are doing.

You are denying that you are ignorant, yet you really are....

Ahem, how exactly am I ignorant ? Is it because I don't hold the same opinion as you ?
You jump to dubious conclusions at best, based on fragmentary evidence. Now if that isn't ignorance I don't know what is.
When people point out holes in your argument, that doesn't make them ignorant, it is ignorant of you to dismiss them. Is that clear enough for you ?

nygaand "There is no uniform, these guys were wearing a black shirts, and the pictures oddly show that they were wearing combat fatigue pants and army boots."

What do you mean there is no uniform? The mehdi army soldier uniform is just "wear all black". They sometimes have green scarfs tied around their arms to show they are soldiers.

And the men you see had removed their outer garb when the photo of the fatigues was shown. The outer garments where mostly black I already posted the photos, didn't you see them. They also had two dark wigs.



It just seem a very interesting coincidence that these two men should be dressed as arabs, in mostly black, with long beards , shooting wildly, killing police and wounding civilians.


27JD

yes i remember and i stand by everything I said.

[edit on 21-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

www.iraq-war.ru...

'Five Iraqi civilians killed' in SAS rescue operation
By: telegraph.co on: 21.09.2005 [13:52 ] (18 reads)


(3478 bytes) Print
'Five Iraqi civilians killed' in SAS rescue operation
(Filed: 21/09/2005)

In pics: troops under attack

Five Iraqi civilians died in clashes surrounding the controversial operation to free two British SAS men captured in Basra, it was claimed today.

Iraqi police said the latest two died in hospital today after being wounded as British troops stormed a police station jail on Monday.

MONSTERSSS!!!!

And to think, i took solace in the fact that atleast no iraqies died when those two terrorsits where arrested.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

It just seem a very interesting coincidence that these two men should be dressed as arabs, in mostly black, with long beards , shooting wildly, killing police and wounding civilians.

news.yahoo.com...

At first, Basra police said the men shot and killed a policeman, but on Tuesday al-Jaafari's spokesman, Haydar al-Abadi, said the men — who were wearing civilian clothes — were grabbed for behaving suspiciously and collecting information.

The British said the soldiers had been handed over to a militia. The Basra governor confirmed the claim, saying the Britons were in the custody of the al-Mahdi Army, the militia controlled by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

"The two British were being kept in a house controlled by militiamen when the rescue operation took place," said Gov. Mohammed al-Waili.

shooting wildly at the police? dont sound like SAS to me. i still dont see any images of bombs. just small arms and medical kits and communications equipment. o yeah the Iraqi police is infiltrated. just to remind u dat as well. civilian clothing police officers. cant tell if they are police as well so there is somthing to consider since we seen kidnappings, etc.

And so the cover up begins?

What would you classify as "behaving supicously" Shooting and perhaps killing a police man? What else was so supicous about them.

Isn't it funny how the man made sure to say that the "SAS" "seemed to be gathering information"

As if he wanted to ferment the idea that all they where doing was gathering information and not planting bomb?

So how did they seem like they where gathering information delta boy? Did they go around asking people questions with a pen and paper in hand??

No photos have come out of this supposed safe house we keep hearing about. Why is that. The Basra police seems to be saying that the two terrorists where snatched straight from the police station. I can't see how there was much time for them to be moved,.

The British government really lost a lot of credibility in my eyes since they killed that innocent Brazilian man. If they lied and covered-up a shooting incident at home, how can we trust what they say in a war-zone? I honestly don't know who to believe. At this point, any explanation is just as good as another.

I agree with you, SS. If they get by with this I am sure we will see more of the same since most of the civilians in the coallition forces home countries are weary of this war. They will have to do something to try to drum up support for a continued occupation. Let us hope that the truth comes out. I also suspect that this was not the first time that such a mission has been undertaken. This is just the first time they have been caught. I truly believe that our government will use any means to achieve thier goals. It makes me sick.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

No photos have come out of this supposed safe house we keep hearing about. Why is that. The Basra police seems to be saying that the two terrorists where snatched straight from the police station. I can't see how there was much time for them to be moved,.

LOL, well just as no photos of the supposed bomb have been released. You would think that they would have at least taken a few pictures of it inside the car. At the very least show some pictures of explosives. They haven't, why ? because the bomb didn't exist.
As we know the police have been heavily infiltrated by the militia, therefore it seems more than likely the bomb story was planted by the militia to throw a shadow over all the great work the British are doing there.

PS. It just seems as usual that any claims such as these have no evidence to back it up, just hearsay and inuendo by certain members.

As for the safe house SS. Even the Iraqi government confirms that the police handed the men over to the local militia. You can be damn sure the Brits didn't want some twisted wanker cutting off their heads on TV. As we all know militia justice is very far from fair.

Cypher.

When i asked "how can you belive something which constantly lies, and distrust something that always turns out right?"

I wasn't talking about your media. I was talking about your government.

You also said :

"However, I find it extremely ironic that you take the police's testimony as fact, considering that you find them to be "puppets" of the coalition"

The fact that they are puppets, means that they have no agenda to go against the US, and since they have no agenda to be bias about this, then it is likely this is true. It doesn't take a genious to understand this, you where just talking about bias yourself.

you said

"This incident is a perfect example of how individuals will believe what they want to believe"

I agree, but i think it's more a perfect example of what some people DOn't want to belive.

As for beliving and not beliving media, i don't trust the arab media as far as i can throw it, the majority of it is a controlled opposition, controlled by the US. Especially the bigger satelite channels.

Just a note for future knowledge.

The resistance isn't just "islamic" as you say, there are socialists, nationalists, pan-arabists, ba'athists, and christians in the mix.


Rogue.

"LOL, well just as no photos of the supposed bomb have been released."

That's disputable since there are pictures of what look like bombs to some, that where found on the men.

on the other hand, there are no images of what anyone claims to be a safe house.

As for the safe house SS. Even the Iraqi government confirms that the police handed the men over to the local militia.

Iraqi puppet not iraqi puppet police. Iraqi puppet police deny it, even though they are puppets and to say the opposite of what they said would better fit their agenda. I guess they too realised the truth of the brits intentions, when one of them was killed.


The iraqi puppet government where not at the seen, so really they have no authority over what actually happened, because they themselves don't know. They are just saying what they are told to say, and the certainly have an agenda to make the ones who are keeping them in power look good.



[edit on 21-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
I also suspect that this was not the first time that such a mission has been undertaken. This is just the first time they have been caught. I truly believe that our government will use any means to achieve thier goals. It makes me sick.

Then you are a truly stuffed person living in such an evil land, lol. No offence, but it sounds like you've smoked too much pot and watched too many X-Files episodes.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

The resistance isn't just "islamic" as you say, there are socialists, nationalists, pan-arabists, ba'athists, and christians in the mix.

I'm not too sure about the Christians, didn't some of their churches get blown up a while back by the insurgents. The fact that most of these groups are fighting to implement Islamic Law, wouldn't be too endearing to Christian Iraqi's
As for all the others, call them what ever you want, but they are all split along Sunni and Shiite lines.