Iraq Worse Than Vietnam -- in Number of Journalists Killed

Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

Are you trying to compare the US to Nazi Germany?

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

Are you trying to compare the US to Nazi Germany?

In a Way - Yes.

Fasci$m Anyone?

Thank you Souljah for your quotes.

And this one is for the fallen and of course still alive journalists

Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
Thomas Jefferson

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

Are you trying to compare the US to Nazi Germany?

In a Way - Yes.

u wish Souljah, u wish. too bad it aint gonna happen in yer view. aniways why would America who wants to be fascist in yer view go to war against our heroic Hitler control fascist Germany eh?

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

Are you trying to compare the US to Nazi Germany?

In a Way - Yes.

u wish Souljah, u wish. too bad it aint gonna happen in yer view. aniways why would America who wants to be fascist in yer view go to war against our heroic Hitler control fascist Germany eh?

Maybe to get a passed due bill for Bushs grandfather - didn't he sell them weapons or something?

Seriously though, fascism is just the melding of corperate and governmental powers. Can you seriously tell me with all the lobby groups and all the corperate power that has decended on capital hill, that you don't see how this fits the discription of fascism? Not that America is a facsist place - and least not yet, but if the majority isn't carefull it is a slippery slope.

Originally posted by Passer By
Maybe to get a passed due bill for Bushs grandfather - didn't he sell them weapons or something?

i dont know did he? why would the American fascist govt be seizing the pro fascist property?

Seriously though, fascism is just the melding of corperate and governmental powers. Can you seriously tell me with all the lobby groups and all the corperate power that has decended on capital hill, that you don't see how this fits the discription of fascism? Not that America is a facsist place - and least not yet, but if the majority isn't carefull it is a slippery slope.

maybe u forgot corporation scandals where the govt arrested them for fraud, etc. o yeah if we arrest them we must be Communists!!!!!

Snide remarks aside, the facts from what I have seen is that Bush's granddaddy did sell arms to the Nazi's - why? Because of money. It doesn't have to be a Nazi to want to make money off of the nazi's - it just makes him a man of questionable moral and ethical integrity. Stop thinking us Vs them, it really limits you.

As for the the last bit - beleive it or not, it is only you that will have to be lived by it's rules. Sooner some of you wake up to what is going on the better it is for all of us. Things are not Nazi Germany right now, but as it was said long before this was ever an issue..

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

We have nothing to fear from an invading army. We are not going to lose our freedoms because of an invading army. We will lose our freedoms because we will grow apathetic to it, and trade it away one responsiblity at a time. Freedom is a coin with one side responsibility and the other side accountablity. Take either one, and you take the persons freedom.

Originally posted by Passer By
Snide remarks aside, the facts from what I have seen is that Bush's granddaddy did sell arms to the Nazi's - why? Because of money. It doesn't have to be a Nazi to want to make money off of the nazi's - it just makes him a man of questionable moral and ethical integrity. Stop thinking us Vs them, it really limits you.

maybe so but its why we call it capitalism. and im into us versus them cause we aint like Nazi Germany, maybe u want to compare us to Nazi Germany but i tend to not compare.

Things are not Nazi Germany right now, but as it was said long before this was ever an issue..

im glad that u agree America aint Nazi Germany right now as u say. sure i love freedom but there are laws but that dont mean men in uniform are gonna go into yer house and kill ya because u are a minority or they be burning yer books, etc. its bad to compare Nazi Germany control to American govt control.

Originally posted by Souljah
Paris - More journalists have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003 than during the 20 years of conflict in Vietnam, media rights group Reporters Without Borders (RSF) said on Sunday.

Of course more journalists have been killed, but you have to keep in mind during Nam reporters were not embedded with the troops as they are now.

Less reporters = less deaths

Originally posted by Souljah
"Shut Your Hole"?

Thats a clear Insult, and I think that is against the rules of this Board.

It wasn't meant as one. If you are so petty as to take it as one, that is your call.

This is a Debate Forum that is used for exchange of Opinion, not Exchange of petty insults.

Heaven forbid you ever use this forum for an exchange of information, or even provide some unbiased information for that matter.

I sugges you read the Thread I have posted a while ago - which I have mentioned numerous times here, but since nobody really reads or listens to anything people say or write, I will write it again - In Bed With Pentagon. Maybe things will get clearer for you. If not, try again. I know - knowing the Truth hurts. Truth is like a Very Strong Spotlight - when you show it to somebody, they instictivly turn away or close their eyes. Which one did you do?

Guess what, I read your post on that thread. In what way does that answer the question that I posted to you directly? Perhaps you can be so kind as to point out that particular part of the article as I must have missed it completely.

On topic:

Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets. ---Napoleon Bonaparte

Originally posted by Souljah
Fasci$m Anyone?

I enjoy seeing this ‘list’ posted quite often on this board and have comented on it in the past.

1) The article as originally written by ‘Lawrence Britt’ for the ‘Free Inquiry Magazine’ Vol 22; no.2 pg. 20. (which is published by The Council for Secular Humanism) Has been noted and recognized as a distortion of an article originally written by Umberto Eco, ‘Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Black Shirt’ c.1995.

This is a highly flawed article. It is not a very accurate picture of fascism and frankly was a ripoff from a much better article by Umberto Eco:
Entire critique is at bottom (link)
Umberto Eco article (link)

2) Sometimes referred to as ‘Dr. Lawrence Britt’ is this guy Laurence W. Britt

3) Laurence Britt is not a published political scientist, nor does he have papers for review pending (in fact not much information about him is available other than his claim from being from the U of Ohio); however he has authored a book which can be considered a huge flop.
If there is some information I would be interested in reading his credentials.

4) Fascism has many forms and adheres to no constants. No government/political party is ever any one specific definable constant structure.

5) Fascism is commonly confused with Nazism. Nazism is a political party platform which contains elements of fascism, dictatorship (military) and embraces socialism. Fascism is a structure of government.

6) By the conventional definition of fascism (even the bogus one cited) the US would be considered much, much less fascist today in elements than say it would even in the recent past, 1940’s, 1950’s, 1960’s and early 1970’s.

7) The most noticeable indication a fascist alignment by a party or government is the separation and persecution of a particular class of people, (usually the bourgeois denying the proletariat) based loosely upon beliefs or some superficial endemic qualities.


Defining what constitutes lists of criteron to be considered a 'fascist state' can be difficult (if not impossible) and often the creation of these lists are generally politically motivated.
.

I dont think journalists should be in a war zone. period. All they do is get themselves killed or get someone else who has to look after them killed.

Absolutely i have been saying this scince day one.


The clearest sign was the shot fired by a US tank as it was crossing the bridge into baghdad.

The round is loosed at the Intercontinental hotel where the worlds press is housed.

Also the al-jazzeera office was directly bombed in kabul.

Also if you read about the treatment of journalists during the miami riots.. you can see how they want to intimidate jornalists into becoming "embedded".

Originally posted by deltaboy
maybe so but its why we call it capitalism. and im into us versus them cause we aint like Nazi Germany, maybe u want to compare us to Nazi Germany but i tend to not compare.

First, I don't compare, I let the definitions stand on their own merit. If you refuse to see it then that is your lose and an example of the limiting yourself the "us Vs them" mentality will get you. I really couldn't have demonstrated it better myself.

Originally posted by deltaboy

im glad that u agree America aint Nazi Germany right now as u say. sure i love freedom but there are laws but that dont mean men in uniform are gonna go into yer house and kill ya because u are a minority or they be burning yer books, etc. its bad to compare Nazi Germany control to American govt control.

No see you are missing the point America can not be Nazi Germany because it is America. The best America can hope to acheive on those lines would be Nazi America - which you are correct in saying I don't think it is yet, merely has all the seedlings for what could become.

Deltaboy, do you not see though - for as long as you adheir to one dogma, chant only one mantra and pass off everything that doesn't fit into the preconceived notions you have no freedom. You will only ever have what some power base decides to give you.

Look around, do you think the decisions being made in the WH and congress and all levels of your government are being done for your benefit, the benefit for the citizen's? Or is there more evidense to suggest that the government is doing things to make corperations and large lobby groups benefit? The evidense is there.

I saw a great quote on here on someone's signiture, something to the effect of "When the citizens fear the government you have Terror. When the government fears the citizens you have freedom." Your government doesn't fear you.

Passer By where do you live? If it’s in the US then you’re imagining something that’s not there and if you’re not in the US then I don’t need to say anymore.

The US is in no way comparable to Nazi Germany and view otherwise is just ludicrous . PERIOD!


[edit on 31-8-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The US is in no way comparable to Nazi Germany and view otherwise is just ludicrous . PERIOD!

I am sorry to break your Patriotic Bubble, but the US has alot of similarities with the Nazi Germany. Patriotism is One.

[edit on 31/8/05 by Souljah]

I am sorry to brek your Patriotic Bubble, but the US has alot of similarities with the Nazi Germany. Patriotism is One.

So does every other country in the world, OMG “gasp” I’m patriotic about my country and its a bad thing? Well I’ll be

[edit on 31-8-2005 by WestPoint23]

Ahh that all mighty defense... "Because you say so"... if only there was a counter to that?

Firstly you can compare anything, sometimes it compares favourably and others not so much. So if you have a problem with how you preceive your country compares to Germany of the 40's that is your cross, not mine.

Now, why do you suppose that you seem incapable of noticeing the numerous times I stated that I don't think it is like Nazi Germany merely having the seed's, that people need to be on the look out and such - I provided a long standing definition of Fascism and the facts are that many countries can be compared to that governmental set up: including the US.

If you don't like the lobby power, or the governmental power that corperations weld then cool, if you do like it then that is cool too, but you can't play both sides. I am truly sorry if I have offended you by suggesting that your country cares more about corperate interests than personal interests. But I think this is rather self evident, which follows by the definition of facisism that there is at least the seeds of problems there - maybe not there yet, but there nonetheless.

To suggest otherwise is willfully ignorant.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

I am sorry to brek your Patriotic Bubble, but the US has alot of similarities with the Nazi Germany. Patriotism is One.

So does every other country in the world, OMG “gasp” I’m patriotic about my country and its a bad thing? Well I’ll be

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable meaning is nothing but an instrument for the attainment of the government's ambitious and mercenary aims, and a renunciation of human dignity, common sense, and conscience by the governed, and a slavish submission to those who hold power. That is what is really preached wherever patriotism is championed. Patriotism is slavery."
Leo Tolstoy, Christianity and Patriotism

"[D]iscipline consists in this, that the men who undergo the instruction and have followed it for a certain time are completely deprived of everything which is precious to a man—of the chief human property, rational freedom—and become submissive, machine-like implements of murder in the hands of their organized hierarchic authorities."
Leo Tolstoy, Patriotism and Government

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
George Bernard Shaw

That doesnt mean you have to be at the other extreme though souljah, you need to find the middle ground, and im sure your loyal to your country.

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.
George Bernard Shaw

not really, patriotism is the conviction to do what you think is right to help your country.