So its like waking up from a dream.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

Originally posted by fum
hmm i hvnt read on monroe institute but a few years back if not months that name was rining trough my head i dunno why i think i saw it on discovery channel but i feel like ive been there or at least heard of it and how do we know that old man wont try to rape us lol

Robert Monroe has long since passed away even if his institute is still in full operation. it IS a CLINICAL setting.............and during OOBE you can choose at anytime to return. If my son calls out to me my body hears this and I pop back. You do have awareness of your bodys saftey or if danger is present. Your not a complete helpless zombie or anything

phew cause i dont wanna get raped by that old guy

Originally posted by Solidus Green eye
The is proof of the astral dimension, or ''other'' dimension,

Im trying to remember whrere i saw it, because some scientists used a partical launcher to proof it, they managed to get particles into the other dimension,

ill go and search for the links...ill post as soon as i found them,

Whenever I start to discuss anything to do with the astral world I am reminded of the book Flatland. For anyone contemplating the astral world's existance and hasn't read Flatland, I would highly recommend it. The book hasn't anything to do about astral projection, but it is about the contemplation of deminsions.

Here is part of a conversation between a Flatlander (2D) and a stranger from Spaceland (3D).

Stranger. Pooh! what do you know of Space? Define Space.
I. Space, my lord, is height and breadth indefinitely prolonged.
Stranger. Exactly: you see you do not even know what SPace is. You think it is of Two Dimensions only; but I have come to announce to you a Third -- height, breadth, and length.
I. Your Lordship is pleased to be merry. We also speak of length and height, or breadth and thickness, thus denoting Two Dimensions by four names.
Stranger. But I mean not only three names, but Three Dimensions.
I. Would your Lordship indicate or explain to me in what direction is the Third Dimension, unknown to me?
Stranger. I cam from it. It is up above and down below.
I. My Lord means seemingly that it is Northward and Southward.
Stranger. I mean nothing of the kind. I mean a direction in which you cannot look, because you have no eye in your side.

The conversation continues and the Sphere (the stranger's 'name') fails to convince 'I' the reality of three dimensions. Upon this failure the Sphere takes it upon itself to bring 'I' into the third dimension. After returning to Flatland 'I' has the rediculous task of convincing anyone in Flatland of Spaceland's existance. A philospher asks the Sphere of a fourth dimension and the Sphere reacts to this notion as unconceivable.

What the heck's my point? Well it would seem inconceivable that there is a 'next' plane of existance, unless in fact you had travelled there. Using the analogies of Flatland, in the next plane of existance we would 'see' the insides (maybe the 'soul') of our existance and could (in the event of existing in the next realm) influence the insides of those on in this reality. Only the only way to realize your insides are being influenced by a creature of the next realm by being informed of it. After being affected there is no trace on this plane, no?

That being said, I think the only proof to another existance is the experience of that existance.

Very good analogy, and sounds like a very good book as well Street Scholar.

Believe it or not guys and girls, there are actually some things out there that are either so complex or so different from how we normally think, that they are literally unthinkable; they boggle the mind. I have only encountered a few of these in my life so far, some including things like the idea of different dimensions, simultanious time and weird hypothetical situations that go along with it, etc. The thing is that these ideas may actually be very simple in nature, but due to our current position and logic, we are just unable to fathom them. Try to envision a fourth dimension right now, and see if you can do anything besides sitting with a very puzzled look on your face =).

all this talk about dimensions has got me thinking.. and i am sorry if this doesnt make much sense, but i will try my best. it is hard to explain

imagine a one dimensional creature, he can travel forwards and backwards along one line. but say this line was curved.. like a piece of string.. he would then be able to follow the string, and go on forever in one direction, yet keep passing the same points.

a two dimensional creature would be able to move north, south, east, and west with respect to his current position. he can travel only on one plane.. much like a sheet of computer paper. but say we were to roll this computer paper into a tube. he could travel forever in around the roll of paper, but he would also have two boundaries, or the edges of the paper. we could give him a ball to live on, and he could travel endlessly in any direction he chooses, on the surface of the ball. yet he would not be able to look above the ball, or into it.

if we drew a line around the ball for the one dimensional creature to live on, he would not be able to see the two dimensional creature, unless the two dimensional creature obstructed the line that the one dimensional creature lived on. In this case, the one dimensional creature would only be able to see one point of the two dimensional creature, not the whole thing. the point that the 1D creature would see would be the spot on the 2D creature that the line intersects.

the two dimensional creature would be able to see the 1D creature fully, and other 2D creatures.

humans are 3D creatures, we can travel forward, backward, left, right, up and down. we can see one dimensional creatures, and two dimensional creatures in whole. we can also see other humans (3D creatures) if we were to intersect the line, the 1D creature would only see one specific point on us, but wouldnt know what to make of it. he would be perplexed by what he sees, and would not be able to explain it. If we intersected the 2D creatures plane of existance he would see merely a line, the part of our body intersecting his plane.. since he can not leave his plane of existance to see up and over to see the rest of us, all he sees is what intersects his plane of existance. he would not be able to explain this. us crossing into his plane of existance (placing our hand inside the ball he lives on for example) would seem like paranormal activity to him.

If we continue with the analogy, 4D creatures can see us fully. yet we can not see the whole four dimensional creature. we can only see the three dimensions that this 4D creature is crossing. he is, in effect, crossing into our plane of existance... just as we can cross into a 2D creatures plane of existance.

Another point i would like to make has to do with traveling in the different planes. i will try to make this explanation shorter since i already explained how the creatures percieve thier planes.

If a 1D creature wants to get from point A to point B, then he MUST follow the string he lives on. Yet this string could be in a figure eight and point A and B are nearly ontop of eachother. The 2D and 3D creatures can see that the points quite close, and the "higher level" creatures can get from point A to point B quite quickly, yet the 1D creature MUST follow the string. even if this string is several hundred miles long.

Same goes for a 2D creature. Lets take the ball he lives on. Lets place point A and point B on opposite sides of the ball. the 2D creature must travel along the perimeter of the ball, but "higher level" creatures ie. humans, can clearly see that it would be MUCH quicker to travel through the ball, rather than around it. The 2D creature has no perception of up and down, so all he can fathom is going around.

To continue the analogy again (this is where it gets confusing in my own mind)... 4D creatures would be able to travel to places that seem EXTREMELY far off to us... like other galaxies... within no time. because they have one more dimension on us. it is obvious that they can take the shorter route, but we MUST follow our three dimensional world to the other point, just as the 1D creature MUST follow the string, and the 2D creature MUST follow the perimiter of the ball..

This analogy can continue onto 5D, 6D, ect..., but i hope you all see the point by now. because my brain is pretty burned out from trying to explain this... lol

sorry about the length of the previous post. i wanted to get that off of my mind, and see what others had to say about this. if anything remains confusing, feel free to leave a post, or private message me, and i will do my best to clarify my hypothesis. Thanks for taking the time to read all of that. i found it quite intriguing to think about!

Demonic Aura: this is the type of thought I hoped mentioning this book would inspire. There are a couple faults in your logic though:

A line is a line, a curve is a curve. In one dimension there can be no curve because there is only one axis of existence. To make a curve between two points you would have to exist in the second dimension. Similarly a plane rolled into a tube would then exist in a third deminsion and would fail to be a plane.

There remain questions: how do creatures transend dimensions? Since we're discussing creatures on other dimensions, what two dimensional creatures can we observe?

In the fourth dimension, would be an existance of pure thought or 'being.' This is how I explain the astral realm.

As for your theory of travel in the next dimension, this is similar to the principle idea in Event Horizon. If we remove the fantasy of transending matter through dimensions, then we can look at traveling the astral world in this way. In a world of thought it would only be a matter of believing to be in the place you want, you simply do. This reflects similarly to some OOBE I have listened to discribing the ability to travel not being of a point A to point B as a three dimensional journey, but as a travel of thought.

Back to the subject of the thread, without understanding the science of transending dimensions you couldn't record any proof of the astral world with anything but your mind. The information recovered and the personal experience/realization of existance is all that would remain of any personal encounter. The only thing a skeptic can do is try to decide if "you have no eye in your side" or if that eye is just closed.

Feel free to u2u me if you have any other thoughts that might not fit in this thread.

ok, yes my post was a little off topic, but the snipet from the book was intriguing. and just to quickly clarify those few problems, humans being 3D creatures would see the rolled tube as a 3D object. in reality it is a 3D object, but to a 2D creature living on that curved "plane", it would seem flat.

I can see the point you are trying to make, and i fully understand that a rolled 2D object MUST become a 3D object.. but my thoughts were more of an analogy, rather than hard and fast science. And again, there is nothing living that exists in only two dimensions. it is only an alanogy.

I will start another thread with that thought of mine, and get back to the subject at hand, speaking of which, i am going to try to OBE tonight. I have never had any success, but i should get it with practice. lol.

There has to be someway to break the dimensional boundary and see from one dimension to another. I guess the key to this lies within biology and we will only figure it out when we fully understand how the human brain works, however we do understand that there is more to it than that meets the eye and I think thats a big step with in its self.

Just thinking you will be some were and you will be there doesn't make sense there has to be some kind of since behind it. It just doesn't work that way even on a 4 dimensional plane.


[edit on 26-8-2005 by iksmodnad]

Originally posted by iksmodnad
Just thinking you will be some were and you will be there doesn't make sense there has to be some kind of since behind it. It just doesn't work that way even on a 4 dimensional plane.

If there is a shorter path from point A to B in a fourth dimension then there is in the third, and the fourth dimension is a realm of thought, then wouldn't your thought control your travel? And in removing yourself from the crossection of our "plane" (what is a 'stack' of an infinate number of panes?) to go from A to B you'd effectively disappear and reappear somewhere else. Following the 2D to 3D analogy it would be like picking up your pencil when you write.

Maybe thread devoted to the discussion of what a higher dimension really is would be a good idea. If someone doesn't beat me to it I'll post a link in here.

WOW' you guys are hot to trot on this one!
Just thought I would throw this in for you. I'm not sure if there is a connection with this but here goes. As a child in my dreams I was always flying, over hills, valleys, rooftops, going to peoples homes that I new and to events and gatherings. I new nothing of the term astral projection and to my knowlege then and now of those events it was just dreams. But as the years past and I began to fine tune myself through various mediums and spiritual workshops more unusual things happened.
Once I found myself whilst asleep,watching myself sleep, another time I saw myself and felt myself as a bright light full of the most amazing feelings of uncinditional love and I was floating over a lady that I new and she was experiencing a heart attack. I remember placing my hand over her heart and speakng to her through telpathy. the dream went on and weeks later when I spoke to this person they had had a heart attack and survived. Another time I had an appointment with a claivoyant for the first time. I Had only spoken to her to make the appointment and didnt know where she lived. It is possible that I looked up the road map for directions the previous day but cant recall doing that. Anyway when I arrived the next day and met her, the first thing she said was I met you last night you must have astral travelled here because you were telling me the things you wanted to ask me today in my dreams last night? now she had never met me before either.
Getting back on track regarding AP's and dimentions, When ever I am absolutely exuasted and asleep within 30 sec of hitting the pillow, my last sence is a giant ' PING ' in my head then I'm out for the count.
Could this be the pre-curser to AP. Does anyone else get this happening...

The other thing I wanted to say was that I watched a program a few days ago called 'The day I died' It was about near death and out of body experiences. There was a lady who was having brain sugery at the time and was classed as the only true case for scientific controled study of an OBE or AP as she was hooked up to every brain and body monitors that there is because in order to have this operation on her brain she had to be clinically brain dead. While brain dead she experienced the ( same old story- through the tunnel and with the relatives at the other end). And apon telling them she wanted to return it was granted and she was back in her own body again. and proceeded to tell the doctors of there operating proceedures while she was clinically brain dead. The doctors were astounded with her acurate detail of what went on during the operation. So other thoughts were discussed on the program like it could just be nerve endings exploding when the brain shuts down, and all sorts of euphoric thoughts flood in. Yet this does not explain Astral travel, which in one of my AP experiences gave me the same light body and feelings of unconditional love. And if the cord is cut when we die how did this lady come back? It does seem that in this state we travel to another dimention yet how can we take part at the same time in things that are transpiring in this dimention.

SSSSSooooooooooooo many questions on this topic.