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Meier Case on C2C

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posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Did anyone listen Michael Horn on Coast to Coast last night? The show was a rebroadcast from early 2004. I have to say that I was/am pretty dismissive of the Billy Meier case, but something Horn said made me wonder...

He mentioned that Meier said 2 small planetoids would be discovered beyond Pluto. Well as we all know, this recently happened. That program was early 2004... I wonder if the other seemingly accurate predictions can be substantiated. Horn said that these predictions were in a book published whenever...sometime before the events happened. Does anyone know of this book?

Anyway, some of what he said got my attention. I still think those photographs and videos Meier took are horribly fake. The video clips on Horn's site are obviously just a model swinging from a rope...




The case would be much more impressive without those photo/videos. However, I wonder if Meier may actually have some kind of "predictive ability". Of course all this hinges on whether or not it can be proven that Meier made the predictions before the fact.


[edit on 8/15/2005 by Flinx]




posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 06:29 PM
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``

yes, i heard the rebroadcast,

and i am in the same frame of mind about Horn...
he seems to be latching on to the meme/myth of Mr Billy Meier
-and presents just another 'screen' or 'filter' for an opportunist to exploit.
( that is; He only presents the items which seem plausable,
then emphasize those 'hits' as being 'true', because it fits with
[Mr Horns'] analysis!! )

If you strip down the Meier communications...they're not beyond the
imaginations of either myself or any number of other inspired fictionalists.
It just depends on the number & complexity & layers of the story
one is able & willing to devote to...from their own life story/timeline....

its just a matter of commitment, as opposed to intelligence-or-craftiness for the average & reasonably intelligent person, to fashion
the Billy Meier meme+Myth

heres' a link to an 'assessment' profile/synopsis, of Billy Meier
myweb.tiscali.co.uk...

................

~L~



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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What u say sounds very interesting.
Is there anyway you could post the program so I can hear it.
Without hearing what was said-I can not make a fair judgement.
How can you make an informed decission if u don't know exactly what they are saying.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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Actually, Meier's photos/videos have been proved genuine and no one has been able to replicate any of them....... Remember, this was back in 1976, Starwars hadn't even come out yet..... And he was managing to gets footage like this?? with one arm?? I swear Hollywood should have got hold of this guy! He would have made one hell of a sci fi move!

Alot of things he said came true...... The twin towers...... Terrorism in London...



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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mrmonsoon,

Unfortunately, there are no archive sites that have past C2C shows. You can listen to old shows on the C2C website but you have to subscribe to some service and pay for them.
www.coasttocoastam.com...


Spreadthetruth,

I know about all the anaysis of the Meier material and that experts have said about it's authenticity. Still I can't help but think it LOOKS fake. Of course, looking fake doesn't mean that it IS fake.

But the predictions are just amazing (if true). I wouldn't take a second look at this stuff if it weren't for them. The skeptics only tend to focus on the pictures and videos and not these predictions, which are the real "meat" of the case.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Well I listened to it as well and suggest you might consider listening to it once again. Hours of positive information under Bell's scutiny and the end result people here feel Meier's work is bunk? Sounds a little debunkerish to me.

Dallas



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Flinx
mrmonsoon,

Unfortunately, there are no archive sites that have past C2C shows. You can listen to old shows on the C2C website but you have to subscribe to some service and pay for them.
www.coasttocoastam.com...


Spreadthetruth,

I know about all the anaysis of the Meier material and that experts have said about it's authenticity. Still I can't help but think it LOOKS fake. Of course, looking fake doesn't mean that it IS fake.

But the predictions are just amazing (if true). I wouldn't take a second look at this stuff if it weren't for them. The skeptics only tend to focus on the pictures and videos and not these predictions, which are the real "meat" of the case.


AGREED

i dont think a guy like him (adventerous, more nature focused) and especially back then would have even had access to computer or yet software to reproduce an image/video of that source.

As for the predictions i m not to familiar with it.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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Maybe his pictures didn't look real because all the UFO photos your used to are fake....... Doubt it, though.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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The case would be much more impressive without those photo/videos. However, I wonder if Meier may actually have some kind of "predictive ability". Of course all this hinges on whether or not it can be proven that Meier made the predictions before the fact.


How about the pics of the gold foil suited "aliens" (i.e. humans with faces out of frame) holding clunky homemade "ray guns"???


Any serious look at the whole picture of the Meier issue will have the same end result, he's a fraud....



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Spreadthetruth
Actually, Meier's photos/videos have been proved genuine and no one has been able to replicate any of them....... Remember, this was back in 1976, Starwars hadn't even come out yet..... And he was managing to gets footage like this?? with one arm?? I swear Hollywood should have got hold of this guy! He would have made one hell of a sci fi move!

Alot of things he said came true...... The twin towers...... Terrorism in London...


IIGWest and myself have both made photos that duplicate Meier's, according to the challenge made by Michael Horn. The problem is now, that Horn wants the (IIG West) photos subjected to the same tests as Meier's were put to.

The issue with that? Who's going to do it? If youre going to put forth that idea, then both Meier and IIGWest's photos have to BOTH be done under independant verifiable analysis.

Problem with that? There are (according to Horn) no original photos left, nor original negatives, nor film, of Meier's footage. There has been significant steps forward in imaging since the 70's, and in my opinion the original analysis was less then objective.

Out of the touted 1200 photos, there's not one negative, nor original print available. Not one original film. Nothing.

I am in the process of securing use of the very same make of camera Meier used in his film footage...lets see what it can do....thats where you start.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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As I recall, neither testing or duplicating facility was provided with any first gen prints of any of the photos in the initial testing either. This of course makes it IMPOSSIBLE to rule out photo trickery....

I find the claim of missing first gen prints to be ludicrous in the extreme. This is like having firsthand pics of the planes crashing into 911 and simply "losing" them. (if of course, supposing that he was indeed photographing aliens). Just seems like something you'd tend to hang on to...


With a large piece of glass, two wooden propboards, and some superglue and a dowel rod, one could make those pics, yes, even with one arm...and without any darkroom tricks. This one-armed handicap bit gets old quick. Hell, Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France how many times? With prostate cancer? Don't underestimate what impaired people can do....

Not even getting STARTED on the "video". If you can't tell that's a model hanging by a string, I seriously feel for you....



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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Gaz-
If you knew the *hell* I just went thru trying to make ONE single non-damning point in this case you'd fall off your chair. Horrid.

I have already found at least one solid point of proof double exposure in the film evidence, and I havent had it for more then 24 hours. (On DVD)

Of course, it'll matter little to supporters.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
I'm makin the vow now, (hey that rhymes)...I'm not talkin about this case anymore. I'm takin it somewhere else.


"Somewhere else" meaning another thread? J/k j-ritz!!

I'm still on the fence about this guy. His pictures and videos look somewhat cheesy, but I have nothing else that's been confirmed as 'real' to compare them with. Lack of negatives doesn't mean this guy's not for real. Just my opinion.

Peace



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Fake or Not (pictures, films, metals, etc) I think the real deal are not the physical material that Meier has to offer to this case, the contact reports are a good example, they are full of information that by the time it was published it wasn't known by the scientific community, like the detail information about Jupiter, Mars, Venus, physics, a-bomb test connection to destruction of the ozone layer, etc. and as well as a lot more information that I am pretty sure any skeptic wouldn't swallow as true but rather as pure sci-fi.

Truly I am aware that there are a lot of things that makes you think twice about the whole story (Asket and Nera photos to take an example) and also there has been a dozen of stories similar to meier's that rang as true but at the end it was all a charade which at the end makes you wonder what is true in reality and what is not or who is trustworthy in this world. No wonder there a lot of skeptics, because none of us (including me) don't want to believe in any of these kind of stories that unless we can see it with our own eyes and touch it with our hands and believe me this is perfectly natural in us humans. We need to see it to believe it...

But besides all of this, I think... no, I am sure that this is a story not for convincing anyone to believe in it. Take it as you want and acknowledge it if you may just keep in mind that a story so controversial and on going now for almost 30 years and still information pretty much accurate at least something has to be true (not just the characters of the story and the location).

Please, I really respect all of your opinions very much like Gazrok and jritzmann and keep in mind that I am no Meier's spokesperson even if I may sound like one, to be honest I am pretty much new in this case and I began to really soak my self with all that I could get my hands on about the whole case all good and bad, pros an cons and fake or real, just to find a true opinion about everything and at the end let me just say that it is not so difficult to find the truth, we humans are so capable of doing so much for the better or for the worst, but to really dig and find the secret box just began to find the truth within yourself and everything will be clear, you won't have to doubt about anything or anyone anymore you'll know right away if he, she or it is real or not.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Nobody ever said that the spiritual message being imparted isn't valid, but he's trying to sell it with a misleading ad....

By the way, I can show you some older "prophecies" of Meier about what's supposed to happen soon, that are straight from a Cold War mindset, and have NO bearing on today's politics.... (i.e. such as assuming that Russia is still a major superpower, etc.)

EDIT: While I'm no fan of Korff, what do you make of his claim that Meier uses small models, suspended from helium balloons to make his photos? Personally, it's a fairly good explanation, that would be hard to disprove as the fishing line would be invisible at such a distance....

[edit on 16-8-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Let me say that i may agreed with you in many things regarding meier's case, but Korff he's the only one trying to make a "buck" debunking this story, I thought Kal K. was a real investigator but i believe that he's just pretends to play as a debunker but don't really know what debunking means??????

Anyhow, you can check this site about Kal K's Book Debunking Billy Meier.

meiercase.0x2a.info...

Well, you said it yourself that we can not make as invalid the spiritual message in the Meier case... Believe or not that is the key, this story is not about pictures and videos whether they are real or not but simply about Us Humans if you would go over the contact notes (if you read a few) you would know that is not all about photo sessions. Sure they do touch this topic but the essence is not just that. You may also say, well that spiritual none sense is raw mixture of Buddhism and Hindu Philosophies but if you would go over human history in spiritual teachings all over the world, you would find small portions of this philosophies in all sort of civilizations in ancient times. Now they may have been lost or rather altered because of modern religions that sadly most of them bring war instead of peace.

In conclusion there is more in this story then just pictures, videos, metal samples, scientific analysis, etc. I believe the physical material is the "bait" and is up to you to find out if it's a real worm or a gummy worm.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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Ok, so it looks like many of us have come to the conclusion that Meier's "evidence" is faked. However, some plastic models on a string are not what's interesting about this case. I'm not really interested in Meier's spiritual message either. I try to shy away from the whole spirituality mixing with UFOs thing. I kind of resent the UFO researchers who try to infuse spirituality and the paranormal into the UFO field...it just allows skeptics to lump all "strange" phenomenon together. Call me naive, but I'm pretty "nuts and bolts" when it comes to UFOs. I'm more of the Stanton Friedman type than the Jacques Vallee type.


Erm...anyway. What I really find interesting about this case, and what hasn't really been addressed yet are the predictions Meier has made. Forget all of those lame photos for a moment. Did Meier really make those predictions before the events occurred? Gazrock said that they were from a Cold War mindset...does this mean that he actually did make them back then?
The only one I can actually confirm is the the discovery of 2 objects beyond Pluto. I suppose that could be a lucky guess but...

Could it be that Meier is actually some kind of psychic, but tries to throw people off his case by claiming that his power comes from biker-looking aliens? Maybe he really did have contact with aliens but decided he needed more evidence to convince people. Maybe he's just a good guesser. Maybe he didn't even make those predictions....who knows.

I haven't paid much attention to the Meier case...at least until Sunday. I'm sure some people here have been following it for years and know much more about it.

[edit on 8/16/2005 by Flinx]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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Gazrock said that they were from a Cold War mindset...does this mean that he actually did make them back then?


Yes, he made predictions about today's events, back then, that are conclusions based on a Cold War mindset. I believe I went into some of these in the thread debating Meier's accounts. Prophets focus on predictions that come true (or can be shoehorned into the truth), while ignoring the more numerous untrue predictions...

What's more odd, is that his older predictions (i.e. those about the past, that can't be proven he made them prior to the events) are exceedingly accurate, down to minutes even sometimes! Amazing! That's like me telling you, "Hey, back in 1999, I predicted that two planes would hit the WTC building at such and such o'clock!" without being able to back it up! Odd that future prophecies don't have this level of accuracy.... Or it isn't all that odd, really...



I thought Kal K. was a real investigator but i believe that he's just pretends to play as a debunker but don't really know what debunking means??????


The terms are often confused, so one can't blame you. A skeptic is one who goes in with an open mind that something could be true but the evidence has to support it, looks at the evidence, and THEN renders a decision. A debunker is one who goes in with their mind already made up, who then looks only at that which agrees with their mindset that it's baloney. Kal is a "debunker" in this regard.

I was extremely skeptical when looking at the Meier case. I certainly WANTED it to be genuine, but multiple UFO sightings by one individual rarely are. The endorsement of the Disclosure Project was impressive, and so were the initial photos I saw. But then, as I looked into it, I saw more and more that the evidence pointed in exactly the opposite direction. Older, obvious faked photos emerged (endorsed by Meier and his spokespeople), the prophecies unravelled, and the story broke into pieces.... Laughable attempts such as the "video" and the Asket and Nera hoax, the ray gun pics, all of it was simply too much for anyone to really take this seriously....

[edit on 17-8-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:14 PM
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To Flinx:



Ok, so it looks like many of us have come to the conclusion that Meier's "evidence" is faked. However, some plastic models on a string are not what's interesting about this case. I'm not really interested in Meier's spiritual message either. I try to shy away from the whole spirituality mixing with UFOs thing. I kind of resent the UFO researchers who try to infuse spirituality and the paranormal into the UFO field...it just allows skeptics to lump all "strange" phenomenon together. Call me naive, but I'm pretty "nuts and bolts" when it comes to UFOs. I'm more of the Stanton Friedman type than the Jacques Vallee type.



Well, I should agree with you in avoiding spiritual messages in the UFO Phenomena, specially Meier's case, I am not into it to much of it as well (like channeling), since you remark yourself as "nuts and bolts" type I would consider myself alike. Fair enough for me but like I said before whether we like it or not all those "spiritual messages" have been around since human life was offspring on earth and we can't just simply ignore it.


Erm...anyway. What I really find interesting about this case, and what hasn't really been addressed yet are the predictions Meier has made. Forget all of those lame photos for a moment. Did Meier really make those predictions before the events occurred? Gazrock said that they were from a Cold War mindset...does this mean that he actually did make them back then?
The only one I can actually confirm is the the discovery of 2 objects beyond Pluto. I suppose that could be a lucky guess but...


As far as I am concern Meier didn't make this prophecies or Predictions they have been around quite some millennia’s now. Most of them encoded (like Nostradamus writing), the Old Testament and other Biblical Passages and as the so called Henoch Prophecies. What I know is that some of the Prophecies for this "New Age" were interpreted by the Plejarens in a direct form of understanding, without encoded messages. As you may know Prophecies may be altered and Predictions are a direct event that can't be avoid, they are a 100% accuracy. That is why many prophecies may not fulfill it's self because it already had been altered, but predictions are the opposite. Let's take the Toutatis Asteroid , that was a prediction that it was going to pass our earth within hundreds of miles on Late September 2004, predicted by the plejarens on 1976 I believe and written down by Meier that year. Which was later discovered in the late 80's by a French Astronomer. Also applies for the newly discovered planet which was also "predicted" by the Plejarens and Meier in the 70's. There are so many things that we can consider it as a whole soup of information to give you more head spins and make you more psycho then we already are.. right?


------------------------ -- ----------------------------------- -- -----------------------------

To Gazrok:



Yes, he made predictions about today's events, back then, that are conclusions based on a Cold War mindset. I believe I went into some of these in the thread debating Meier's accounts. Prophets focus on predictions that come true (or can be shoehorned into the truth), while ignoring the more numerous untrue predictions...


Sure he made predictions and prophecies and of course some were of Cold War mindset, just remember that the cold war was in set in the 60's until the fall of the Berlin Wall, well Russia it still is a well armed nation, same as the U.S. and that makes it still a threat and also are the prophecies of the Islam playing a sad part for these times. I believe you Gazrok made a good point in some other thread that that all of these so call "prophecies" were made on purely logical events to come, such as the Golf War, that surely was going to wake more anger on the Islamic Fundamentalism against the U.S. and that the WTC Attack was an event waiting to happen???



The terms are often confused, so one can't blame you. A skeptic is one who goes in with an open mind that something could be true but the evidence has to support it, looks at the evidence, and THEN renders a decision. A debunker is one who goes in with their mind already made up, who then looks only at that which agrees with their mindset that it's baloney. Kal is a "debunker" in this regard.


Let's just leave Kal K. as a "megalomaniac" skeptic



I was extremely skeptical when looking at the Meier case. I certainly WANTED it to be genuine, but multiple UFO sightings by one individual rarely are. The endorsement of the Disclosure Project was impressive, and so were the initial photos I saw. But then, as I looked into it, I saw more and more that the evidence pointed in exactly the opposite direction. Older, obvious faked photos emerged (endorsed by Meier and his spokespeople), the prophecies unravelled, and the story broke into pieces.... Laughable attempts such as the "video" and the Asket and Nera hoax, the ray gun pics, all of it was simply too much for anyone to really take this seriously....


I agree with you, we all want to know what is true and what is not. Yes, there a lot of things in the Meier case, and I mentioned them again, that makes you think twice about the whole story believe me I also have my doubts and that is good because that makes me a human just like anyone else, but why is that the things that someone expects turns out to be totally different then expected? Let me clarify this, is it that just because something that you looked, touched or even tasted wasn't what your mind was expecting or wanted them to be just how you wanted it to be you are going to reject it and even denying it's existence in a direct or indirect form? that happens a lot and please correct wrong with this, but that has happened to me and I am absolutely sure that it has happened to you as well.
I believe also that Meier doesn't indorsed people just to make his story more or less valid. Sadly they may be some spokesperson that tries to profit of Meier’s case and there are others that do all "endorsement" on there own investing with time and money. That is why Meier doesn't like the media, besides all the attacks that he has received, also he doesn't find the need to promote himself like a lot of "contactees" have done over the years just to have there face on TV or an the front cover of Fate Magazine

Anyhow, I am not endorsing Meier's case I just want to know how far will it go and hopefully we find out the truth before Meier's death, because if he dies and this goes on let me "predict" you that people will turn him into a cult like idol, none of this is happening right now believe me that besides FIGU and all of affiliates around the world I doubt that this is a cult like group for now... Let's just hope that it doesn't end up like a "Heaven's Gate" incident


Let me just say that I enjoy very much with you guys this topic specially when we have a whole mix of opinions about the Meier Story or other stories besides Meier’s, even though some may buy it and some may not, well don't you thing that is the fun part to simply share our thoughts and try to bring something positive out of the whole experience.

Sorry For taking so long on posting my opinions... I'll try to keep up next time


[edit on 17-8-2005 by Nokodemion]



posted on Aug, 17 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Wow a lot negative heresay here from borderline debunkers and no posted proof or where the proof can be seen showing Meiers fakery.

Some of you have made up your mind to the negative and I feel that's fine but is it necessary to be so absolute in statements. I wasn't there, but the information Horn talks about does not mean you need a photo negative in hand to disprove or prove the reality of the Meier's contact.

If I were on the fence on this episode it could only be to bits and pieces and not the main information provided by Meier, and someeaht substanciated by his US man Horn.

Seems to me the people saying the most to dispute Horn and Meier are the ones who did not listen the repeat Art Bell CtoC the other night. Art asks a whack of volatile questions which I for one wa quite surprised at Horns answers, in the positive sense.

Dallas



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