Where would Islamic nations be without the West?

We can easily say that if Islam had not been around the West would probably be similar to today. The underlying ethos and development seem unafected by Islam, except for the wars and destruction caused by the Muslim invasions.

However where would the Islamic countries be without the West?

If they are barely literate, barely technological now, and that by copying or stealing techology from the west, what would they be like if they had no contact with the west? Still in the middle ages?

Islam seems a repressive religion stifling development, I would suspect that things would be the same as 500 / 1000 years ago.

[edit on 7-8-2005 by Netchicken]

Alot of places have lower literacy rates than Iraq etc.

www.mrdowling.com...

Is it part of the problem? Sure.

Are they "barely technological" now? No.

What would they be like if they had no contact with the west?

What would North America be like with no contact from anywhere else?



[edit on 8-8-2005 by Dulcimer]

I personally feel they would still be warring amongst themselves. The West has helped them come into the 20th century, now if we can only get them to take part in the 21st.

The West has a history of leaving it's colonies in ruins. What would they be like if they had no contact with the west? Like Africa, probably a lot better off. The Middle East was once the center for intellectual thought and science. Maybe they would of had a chance to build schools and an infrastructure, if the West hadn't lead a blood-thirsty charge through-out the world for colonies and empire building. If the West actually helped the people they conquered, we wouldn't have the problems we do today.

Originally posted by curme
The West has a history of leaving it's colonies in ruins. What would they be like if they had no contact with the west? Like Africa, probably a lot better off. The Middle East was once the center for intellectual thought and science. Maybe they would of had a chance to build schools and an infrastructure, if the West hadn't lead a blood-thirsty charge through-out the world for colonies and empire building. If the West actually helped the people they conquered, we wouldn't have the problems we do today.

Cough Cough .......


Bullpucky.


The Arabs were killing themsleves for years just as now. If the Turks would have stayed out of WW1, then well maybe........

From opinions here I think no one realizes even one important thing, for example arabic numbers, the zero in particular. The west might be still making pottage for dinner without arabic numbers. These things were invented by people who had a brand of Islam far different from the British induced virus of Wahhab which is entirely responsible for the evident intolerance we are witnessing in the world today. Contributions of Islamic culture are rooted in the earlier tolerance of the Ottomans for Christians and Jewish peoples, indicating the important silk road and other significant facts of trade.

Sadly an intolerant brand of Islam was introduced by the British through their agent Wahhab, and you may Google freely for "Confessions of a British Spy," to get the details of how a once progressive and civilized religion was and is reduced to its current state, but even that is an illusion of public relations and counterintelligence. In addition one must be watchful in Chrisitanity for similar stunts by agents to produce intolerance.

We know better in the roots of religious freedom in America, however that once promising eventuality is now threatened by the 503c "requirements." Are Christian approaches now being destroyed by "political correctness," and other totalitarian schemes? One must wonder about how the scriptures run true in what is happening today, take cognitive dissonance and compare it to such wisdom as "the blind leading the blind."

One should wish to deny ignorance in this matter of religion, and get to the heart and soul of its profound lessons. Religion encourages a search for truth, and it is not simply in the realm of courtroom demeanor.

Perhaps a more valid question than above is "Where would the West be without Islam," and there you go again, just how does anyone add things up anyway? Why with Arabic numbers of course.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

With nobody buying (in liberalspeak stealing) their oil, they'd be nowhere. Either they'll eventually socially evolve and join the rest of the world or technology will pass them by and they'll go back to the stone age while Western nations use new, advanced energy technologies that don't fund them and their regimes.

Hey netchicken, what the hell kind of biggotry is this thread? You ever hear of the Library of Alexandria, get a map. Where's your math come from?
Oh The sanctity of the western world, the glory of Catholicism...yeah right.

Originally posted by twitchy
Hey netchicken, what the hell kind of biggotry is this thread? You ever hear of the Library of Alexandria, get a map. Where's your math come from?
Oh The sanctity of the western world, the glory of Catholicism...yeah right.

I think this was to mean in modern times, crap next you'll bring an abacus to a calculator fight.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by twitchy
Hey netchicken, what the hell kind of biggotry is this thread? You ever hear of the Library of Alexandria, get a map. Where's your math come from?
Oh The sanctity of the western world, the glory of Catholicism...yeah right.

I think this was to mean in modern times, crap next you'll bring an abacus to a calculator fight.

Without the abacus there would be no calculator.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Dulcimer]

Originally posted by Dulcimer

I think this was to mean in modern times, crap next you'll bring an abacus to a calculator fight.

Without the abacus there would be no calculator.




Well without 'Eve', there would be no abacus, so how far back you want to go?

They'd be alot better off and there's absolutely no doubt about that. They'd be happy if anything and they wouldn't be blowing themselves up. That's for sure.

But hey, the West ain't about to let do their own thing. They have to civilize them. The West can't just let these people be happy. Especially while they sit on half of the worlds oil supply right ?

Reminds me of the American Native Indians. Do you think they'd be better off without the West ?

I think I've invented a new sport .. goading twichy

OK they invented the 0, it was a big deal, but the rest of the world would have got around to it sooner or later.

BTW the great age of Islam was over 500 years ago.

Just what was the west like at that time? Serfdom, peasanty, feudalism, and oppression. Yet look at the west now, and look at Islamic countires.

You can't blame the colonising powers for their plight. look at India after the British, they bought western technology, planning, education and work ethic.

Are you saying India is better off the Islamic countries ?

Yeah, exactly. India has a huge population and massive extremes, but its IT people are headhunted for jobs at Microsoft, and they have a massive growing middle class. They have universities with growing prestige and a technological infrastructure that will boom in this century.

India is indeed on the way up.

My question is this,

Were do you think India would be if it had the Oil of... say Iraq for one.

I think they'd be much better off.
They were fairly advanced at one point.

I think they were better off before the West discovered they had oil there and decided to take over that region.

BTW, why do people keep telling these jokes about the Muslims would still be "warring amongst themselves."

Let me know when the West can go 10 years without a new war.
It might be impossible to even name a single 5 year period over the last 100 years in which a Western nation was not at war with some one.
Even if you limited it just to the US it woud probably be almost impossible.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by Netchicken
IT people are headhunted for jobs at Microsoft

Perhaps thats one of the reasons that the 'Islamic' countries aren't doing very well, the more attractive life in the Western countries means that the professionals don't stick around to help their own countries.

But again that is a generalisation, I don't even know if the Islamic countries are doing that badly, and seeing as there has hardly been any evidence on this thread to support the claim, I doubt anyone else actually knows. This idea that they are backward seems a bit far fetched. Didn't Iraq have like the best universities before the Gulf war?

Suppose they'd be continuing with population control amongst themselves as before. Maybe fighting amongst themselves using daggars and swords.

Dallas

Where would War be without the West?

As for Islam, I agree that they would be no worse off, as without the west being involved it would not have our corruptions intermingled with their own.