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SCI/TECH: Klein/HHO Gas Could Revolutionize the Energy Industry

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posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Klein/HHO technology has been around for about a century, but until now, it has never been worth the trouble or the energy required to produce it, not to mention the problems with volatility. Now, however, a two new technologies using this science appear to be nearing readiness to market and this could very well be what the world has been waiting for--gas from water. It's not as crazy as you might think.
 



www.environment.ky.gov
Two particularly intriguing exhibits were the H2O 2000 gas generator machine, a revolutionary welding and cutting device, and also a newly developed process of recycling polystyrene caught the eye of many conference attendees.

The generator is a little 160-pound gizmo on wheels that is powerful indeed. In the words of The Center for Strategic Alliance Inc., “we can now make fire from water.” The Center for Strategic Alliance Inc. is a small consulting business with offices in Hickman, Ky.

This technology, with more than five years in research and development at Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc. (HTA), illustrates that the solutions to our energy and environmental woes may be in the common elements that surround us. The patented process safely generates a molecularly stable hybrid hydrogen/oxygen gas (Klein/HHO) on demand from water. The gas is extremely environmentally friendly in that it has no polluting subgases when burned and produces only pure water in vapor form. It is currently being used to cut, weld, solder and fuse such materials as metal, plastics, ceramics and glass in commercial as well as artistic applications.

Unlike pure hydrogen gas, HHO gas remains highly stable, reducing the fear of explosions that often accompany pure hydrogen systems.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This isn't just good new for welders. This technology is being adapted for a new breed of hybrid cars. I've been hearing claims like this since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, but this is the first time I have seen anything like this that is believable. Take the time to read the links. You, too, will be amazed, I think.

Related News Links:
hytechapps.com
hytechapps.com
hytechapps.com
hytechapps.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
New Energy Efficient Car
The end of the age of oil? I think not!


[edit on 2005/7/27 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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Thats interesting, I wonder though, what energy is required to convert the water into the HHO gas? Does it still require electricity?



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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I don't get it. How is hho gas different from h2o vapour?



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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That's interesting. Last night on PBS, Nova science now, had a segment featuring click and clack, the car talk guys on why the hydrogen car isn't as near a possiblity as it has been hyped. I don't know all the science but you can rewatch the segment via streaming video from the nova website. One of the key problems a car would have would be weight...as they discribed it, (and these amounts are mine not theirs) to go 100 miles you would need a tank holding roughly 10,000 psi in hydrogen, so unless you wanted to refill every hundred miles, you would have to double the amount stored to go 200 miles, triple it to go 300 miles etc. It was a fasninating show I highly recommend checking it out. I wish those guys lots of luck but I am not holding my breath.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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P.S. One of the things that it did say that was quite intriguing was given the problems (and others) mentioned above a hydrogen car was most likely not very practical BUT that probably the best use for this technology wasnot in automobiles but in power plants.



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:37 PM
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I never heard of this until the other night on a news program. I did some research and found that it is indeed a viable technology. Apparently, the company behind this has been quietly working for the last five years without much ado, unlike the "cold fusion" chemists who couldn't wait the get the media involved.

The demonstrations I saw, reveal a nearly magical process that does indeed turn water into a unique gas, HHO, that has the remarkable properties of heating according to the material it is applied to and producing no poisonous by-products and does not require the bottling and storage of volatile gasses. The gas can be converted from water available on any work site. I think this could be big.



[edit on 2005/7/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't get it. How is hho gas different from h2o vapour?


Maybe these will help you understand. I'm no physicist.

www.ucsofa.com...

www.energyoptions.com...

hytechapps.com...

hytechapps.com...

Here's more:

Google Search


[edit on 2005/7/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Grady can you tell me what name, etc. this was patented under? I would like to do a patent search to see what comes up. Also, do you know if the theory or other intellectual work was peer reviewed? And if so, by whom?

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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Ah I see so the molecule looks like this...

H O
\ /
H


Rather than this...

H H
\ /
O

At least I think I get it I don't really have that firm a grasp of chemistry.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by boogyman]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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An Australian named Yul Brown has patented a product, if my research is correct. He is now deceased and his work seems to have occurred in the late seventies. The only other information I have is Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc., which I believe has some 39 patents pending. They did mention an engineer's name in the televised report I saw, but I don't remember his name. If I can uncover more, I will let you know.

www.pytela.com...

I hope this helps.


[edit on 2005/7/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 27 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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Hmm, this page seems intersting
www.freeenergynews.com...

From the ones grady gave. They note some weird properties. Here are some of the ones that jump out at me


* Neutralizes radioactive waste
o Certified as such by Canadian Atomic Commission; on file with George Wiseman.
* Breathing Aparatus
o Gas is non-toxic, breathable, preferable for diving because of absence of Nitrogen
* Welds many dissimilar metals; does not weld iron
* Cuts
o Cuts thick steel (with added oxygen)
o Gas cuts iron 30% faster than acetylene
o Cuts dirty metal without sputtering
* Toxic waste disposal (can vaporize PVC’s)
* Turns feldspar into moonstone
* Does not boil water; but seems to work by electrical rather than heat energy
* Water that condenses from the flame produces "New Water" that exhibits properties of transmutation, taking on the characteristics of things to which it is subjected
* Vapors do not pool but mix with air and become stable
* Melts pure carbon
* Indications of mono-atomic hydrogen and oxygen ("impossible").


Seems like some wacky stuff.


Electrolytic process converts water into a burnable gas. Atomic hydrogen and oxygen thought to be main cause of unique properties.

Another page refered to it as a 'stoichiometric' gas. I don't know if the term is different in some other fields or ina specific type of jargon, but I think that they are just saying that its got the 2 to 1 ratio of H to O in the gas form. IOW its both Oxygen gas and Hydrogen Gas. But with unpredicted properties. Depending on the method of electrolysis tho? Maybe that would affect the valence electrons and give the particles unusual charges, of maybe even given them really weird, energetic quantum orbitals or something and that allows it to have weird characteristics. Maybe that would explain the 'electrical rather than heat' properties, dunno.

Weird and whacky, I like it!

Hope some of the engineers that frequent ATS get a look at this.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Does anyone have a link to the Sagan "Baloney Detection Kit" handy?

I read the original site. Hydrogen is an element. You don't "hybridize" it. You can create different compounds but then you change the properties. It takes a fixed, given amount of energy to separate H2O into H2 and O. The power from burning it is getting some of that back by actualy "rusting" the hydrogen-oxidizing it, producing heat. Not as much energy comes out as goes in to crack the water. Basic thermodynamics, what they used to teach in school instead of endless "safe sex/anti AIDS" and "tolerance" classes.


What they fail to mention is the chemical reactions are nothing new, pretty much what you get dropping metallic sodium into water. Sure you get hydrogen. But is it worth the tons of dangerous, toxic material needed?

This is the same sort of stuff snake oil salesmen have been trying to push for centuries. Run this through the Baloney Detection Kit, and see what you come up with.

*sigh* no wonder China of all places is surpassing us in R&D. Between the leftover hippie/communist radical left and the brainwashed narrow religious right, and mass media producing twitchy garbage, we've become a nation of morons incapable of basic skepticism and common sense.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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and for those of you hung up on the "it's got a patent!" thing...

Something does not have to work or be viable or even possible in this Universe to get a patent. Sony (IIRC) has a patent on Matrix-like gaming input feeding directly into your brain. Perpetual motion machines have been patented. I think Star Trek "warp drive" is patented. Pretty sure the Scientologist's "orgonne generator" is patented. A couple "anti-gravity" devices too.

USPTO is broken as anyone in the information systems field can tell you...watching innovations get squashed left and right by ridiculous software patents for such simple things as "one click ordering" and other silliness.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Neutralizes radioactive waste


That one alone is worth the price of admission.
One in every kitchen!



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
Does anyone have a link to the Sagan "Baloney Detection Kit" handy?

I read the original site. Hydrogen is an element. You don't "hybridize" it.

Its electron orbitals can be 'hybridized' tho, perhaps that is what they are talking about.

You can create different compounds but then you change the properties. It takes a fixed, given amount of energy to separate H2O into H2 and O. The power from burning it is getting some of that back by actualy "rusting" the hydrogen-oxidizing it, producing heat. Not as much energy comes out as goes in to crack the water. Basic thermodynamics, what they used to teach in school instead of endless "safe sex/anti AIDS" and "tolerance" classes.



What they fail to mention is the chemical reactions are nothing new,

I think that they are claiming that its an entirely different sort of reaction tho, that the atoms are present in a state that they're not normally present in (which would be required I beleive to have a gas of mono-atomic hydrogen and oxygen, as opposed to h2 and o2.)

The claims in the page I cited are, I beleive, a compendium of most claims about the substance. The claims are pretty outrageous, but nonetheless interesting.

And,as is usual with big claims like this, the fact that they are saying its workable and there are examples of it, but that there isn't much business interest in the product is somewhat telling.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't get it. How is hho gas different from h2o vapour?


Maybe these will help you understand. I'm no physicist.

www.ucsofa.com...


I am a physicist. What I read in the links provided sounds quite bogus. It "implodes when lit"? How then it can expand while burning in the cylinders of my car???



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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On the noon news broadcast at about 12:40 or so of KRIV Fox 26 news here in Houston 2 or 3 days ago they showed a segment on this technology.

The segment showed a local company owner demonstrating his version of a welding machine using HHO Gas produced from water and electricity by his patented process. The torch heated a large brass or copper ball to its' melting point in about 3 seconds, cut metal, other stuff, and he then immediately grabbed onto and continued to hold the tip of the torch less than 1 cm away from the blue flame. There was no heat associated with the torch tip at all other than the flame of course.

This man then filled the tank of an old 4 cylinder green small car which if memory serves me right was a 94 Ford, maybe a Dodge, I cant remember, with a gallon of water and then drove out of the Clear Lake City, or was it Webster, parking lot that I believe was the parking lot of the company that he has started to promote the technology.

This is all I can remember. I do remember he said it didn't take alot of electricity to convert the water to gas in the car or the welding machine. They said the name of the company; Something like Hydrogen something Systems. Hope this helps.

Edit: I just got around to reading the links and HTA is the company unless there are two companies testing this with a 94 Escort, so it looks like Grady and I may have seen the same or a simular broadcast.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by TexasConspiracyNut]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:13 PM
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Interesting, a friend of mine that was quite well known in the Aliens forum told me about this tech before I heard it here.

Quite interesting I must say, hopefully it will be as good as it sounds!



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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I knew where I'd heard this before.

It's acetylene. Add calcium carbide to water. That's the "magic element" listed here. They had a kind of well for this, full of water- dump the calcium carbide in, let the gas come out, compress it with a windlass compressor, and pipe it to valved burners that provided light. Then some poor sucker would have to clean the toxic sludge out when the efficiency dropped.

It's how the widow Winchester lit her house here in San Jose. Check up on the Winchester Mystery house and there may be more details. Pretty common method of lighting for the affluent, much better than candles or oil burning lamps, before electric bulbs were commonplace.

That's where the welding connection comes in. The rest of this is common snake-oil crockery.

here's a link to acetylene generation. Check out how nasty this stuff is, and how it reacts to produce a flammable gas. A gas that has many of the properties described, minus the magic and baloney.

21.1911encyclopedia.org...

edited for mistakes.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Phugedaboudet]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
I knew where I'd heard this before.

It's acetylene.


This can't be explained away that easily. Acetylene burns completely different than what I saw demonstrated.

No one would grab the tip of a welding torch by the end and hold onto it for 5 seconds with it still shooting out a flame that just got thru melting a 2 or 3 inch round lump of metal and cutting plates of metal right in front of the reporter if it was acetylene. This guy even stuck his hand in the flame for a second or two.



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