Democracy = Died in Ohio in 2004 election theft

Wait TC, it's ok for republicans to knowingly steal an election because they thought the dems were doing it? So according to you I can go and kill everyone on the planet because I thought they might could possibly maybe be planning to kill me? Wha??? That doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wait TC, it's ok for republicans to knowingly steal an election because they thought the dems were doing it? So according to you I can go and kill everyone on the planet because I thought they might could possibly maybe be planning to kill me? Wha??? That doesn't make sense.

No, what is wrong is for democrats to accuse Republicans of doing something (stealing elections) that democrats have been caught doing themselves many times over the years (see earlier in this thread for just a few examples). In a word, it's called hypocrisy. democrats, of course, simply call it "standard operating procedure".

[edit on 7/28/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211

No, what is wrong is for democrats to accuse Republicans of doing something (stealing elections) that democrats have been caught doing themselves many times over the years (see earlier in this thread for just a few examples). In a word, it's called hypocrisy. democrats, of course, simply call it "standard operating procedure".

[edit on 7/28/2005 by centurion1211]

Geez! Can we please stop the picking sides, right or wrong, and just do what's best for the country? If a Republican steals your tv, would you tell the cops, don't worry about, Democrats steal tvs too? If Ted Bundy was a Republican, would you set him free?

Sometimes I think George Washington was right, political parties were a terrible idea. Each side just sits in a corner, ignoring what is best for the country, and only concetrating on how to prove the other party wrong.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wait TC, it's ok for republicans to knowingly steal an election because they thought the dems were doing it?

No, what is wrong is for democrats to accuse Republicans of doing something (stealing elections) that democrats have been caught doing themselves many times over the years .

but, the republicans DID steal TWO elections. this is current, not ancient history, and it is a CRIME no matter who does it.

mom, he hit me first, waaaaaah.

how is election theft a bipartisan issue? it is a crime against the people. not everyone who is aware of the election 'irregularities' is a democrat.
nice try to pigeonhole everyone into neat little boxes, though. are we forgetting the majority of people lie somewhere in the 'excluded middle'?



[edit on 28-7-2005 by billybob]

.
GW Bush may be the amiable meat puppet,
but Jeb Bush is straight up evil.

Hit men were sent to murder Ray Lemme, who was about to expose the state highway system's use of toll booth cash flow for laundering money. Reported to have died July 1, 2003, supposedly slashed his wrists, but managed to bruise his neck in the process?
Could the bloody belt found at the murder scene have been what what was used to cause the bruise on his neck?
Links to Story & Murder Photos

The 2000 election used registration manipulations to manufacture a win for GW Bush, thanks to Jeb Bush and the Florida Republican Mafia.

The company, ChoicePoint, objected to the out of bounds methods requested by the Florida Election Officials, but relinquished after being forced.
en.wikipedia.org...

Steal one election? Why not two?
.

Originally posted by Bout Time
There was unequal placement of voting machines.

Here in Delaware there was a high placement of voting machines in
the black democrat areas which enjoyed no waiting to vote. North Wilmington, which is more republican, got MUCH fewer machines and the lines were out the door which was a discouragement for people to vote.
Democrat Joe Biden runs the state.

There was restriction of media from covering the election and
conducting exit polls.

Yeah right. Got proof? Seems there were TONS of exit polls ... all wrong.

Numerous statistical anomalies all deducted votes from Kerry.

Such as? Here is a an anomalie for ya' ... in Philadelphia there were
voting machines that, upon being set up, already had THOUSANDS of
Kerry votes on them. Those machines had to be locked and taken
away for investigation. This was on the news .. it's well known.

In Cuyahoga and Franklin Counties, “the arrows on the absentee ballots were not properly aligned with their respective punch holes, so that countless votes were miscast.”

So there was a bad printing done. Someone should have caught it.
If the arrows were not properly aligned, then EVERYONE suffers from
losing votes. This isn't a plus for Bush ... I'm sure every arrow on the
sheet didn't point to G.W.'s punch hole. If there was sloppy printing
then that's a valid concern, but you can't say it favored one candidate
over another. Put up a picture of the absentee voting card. Let's see.

In Mahoning County 25 electronic machines changed Kerry votes to Bush.

Got some proof of that?

Geeeeeeeeeze ... it's been YEARS and you still aren't over it. Your boy
lost. He lost what should have been an easy win. He lost because he
was (and still is) a buffoon. Joe Biden would have won. Hillary would
have won. Lieberman would have won.

Kerry was (and still is) an arrogant anti-American freak. He hardly ever
showed up for work in the senate (80% + absentee rate), he is arrogant,
he is a rich boy who entertained Enron executives in his home in Boston
but complained about G.W.'s rich connections (hypocrit!), he lied under
oath about Vietnam (Winter Soldier investigations AND that Christmas that
was 'seared, seared into his brain'), he said Bush was an idiot in college
but Kerry himself got worse grades than Bush (Bush had a c+ avg
and Kerry had a c average), while Kerry played the Vietnam card,
he claimed Bush was AWOL (which records show he wasn't) and
yet Kerry was 'Three scratches and out' of vietnam in 3 months
(Definately not a war hero and yet he played it as though he was),
Kerry's wife complained about WALMART to get the leftie votes, but
she owned millions of dollars of Walmart stock while she complained,
... etc. etc. etc. Then the biggie, the fact that Kerry only managed to
show up for work when there was a military vote ... and he always
voted AGAINST strengthening America.

Kerry LOST it by himself. What is amazing is that people actually voted
for the idiot. He's more of an idiot than Bush. If the dems wanted to
win, they should have gone with Biden, Hillary or Lieberman. But they
chose a freak instead.

[edit on 7/29/2005 by FlyersFan]

I posted it in another thread on how Jim Lampley saw the issue. For those who don't know Lampley is a Boxign colour man and his creditials are top notch. He has a history of speaking his mind even when it goes against his employer and so I think his take on from a political POV, but rather one of using comman sense...

Lampley's Blog

We know that professionally conceived samples simply do not yield results which vary six, eight, ten points from eventual data returns, thaty's why there are identifiable margins for error. We know that margins for error are valid, and that results have fallen within the error range for every Presidential election for the past fifty years prior to last fall. NEVER have exit polls varied by beyond-error margins in a single state, not since 1948 when this kind of polling began. In this past election it happened in ten states, all of them swing states, all of them in Bush's favor. Coincidence? Of course not.

Add to this, the testimony I saw on here from the computer programmer for those election machines saying how it was fixed to produce a the result of a close election.

The facts are there, they have all been seen - it seems just that no one wants to admitt they were wrong in supporting a party, Not that the Dem's would be better, Power corrupts - absolute power?

Both Kerry and Bush are rich brats. Do you really think either give a sh.t about your average American? I do not.

I believe the two party system in this country is all about division. While us little folk bicker back and forth over who's looking out for us and who's not, they're screwing with our Constitution. This strategy has been going on since the days of the cave man and will continue until we stop bickering and start electing leaders that WE, the people, want to guide us. Although I voted in the presidential election, I felt sick to my stomach voting for one of these elitists over the other. No more.

I will never again vote for either a democrat or republican. NEVER. Neither party is for the people.

IMO only we all have to start thinking outside nationalistic lines. What is really the difference between your average Canadian to your average American, or average Englishmen, or Russian? We all want and require the same things.

It is those that lead us that cause this crap, is not the people in other lands it is the rules of those other lands AND our rulers. You can not do anything about the other rulers, they are for their "subjects", but you can do something about your rulers. That is why the brunt of the work must be done by the average American - they are the only people that can effect change in America.

Democracy may be deadd, but its' principles and concepts can live on if those that say they carry the torch for it can stop their blind patriotism for the greater good. Ofcourse, I won't hold my breath. Ego is a horrible thing to try and corral, it must be next to impossible when you have multi billion dollar corperations feeding you self indulgient tripe reinforcing that same blind patriotism.

The problem is no one else can do it, only the average American, and he is proving to be every bit as fat, lazy and apathetic as the sterotype considers them.

No offense intending, I am sure many Americans do try and effect change, regardless which way you want the change, however it is also sadly clear that it is not nearly the majority.

Well I guess this is better than listening to another 4 years about the theft in Florida.

New states of the thievery are good, Florida was getting old..



It really burns the Tulipwalkers that Bush WON the popular vote also this time.....



psssst..... guess who just appointed a new Supreme Court judge? You guessed it, the WINNER of the 04 election.

I mean maybe when you get the felons vote back and suppress more of the military vote, bus more paid voters in, you will win one for the Gipper huh?

Sometimes it is like trying to explain to cattle why they shouldn't walk into that other building.... they just aren't smart enough to know any better that they guy who is giving you food, maybe doing it merely to fatten you up.

More like explaining why they shoudnt go near the flying circular thingys.

i wish i still had the video of the whole OH fiasco. some orginization went around minority community neigborhoods to see how the vote turnout was and on every voting station there were hour+ long lines, out dated/malfunctioning/non-existing voting booths and a ton of other discouraging aspects to that day.

if anyone knows what im talking about, post the link.

Originally posted by billybob
i was speaking metaphorically(with admitted powerful venom). my venom is directed at those who have STOLEN AMERICA. i won't 'get over it' until these uber criminals are all dead or in jail, and a vote actually counts for something other than pomp and circumstance.

I googled for you and this is what I've founded: It's billybob!

Get. Over. It.

WAAAAHHHHH........
I'm a Democrat and I can't stand it.
WAAAAHHHHH........
My loser lost.
WAAAAHHHHH........
They stole the election.
WAAAAHHHHH........

Gimme a break.

i'm not even american. i am an objective observer.

save your psychology tricks for the weak minded. your insults are like fresh water off my ducky back.

Originally posted by Ponderosa
So if either of these two parties can't be trusted, then why does everyone continue to vote for them? Choosing the lesser of two evils (if one is lesser than the other) isn't much of a choice. People have got to stop letting these two parties dictate how their country runs, because for however opposed to each other as they are, they do the same damn things.

You shouldn't have to 'get over it', you should change it. No matter where you stand both parties are unilaterally screwing the people over. Each side gets you to hate the other so you won't see the faults of their own. It's not about which side is doing what, its that the people aren't getting what they deserve from either and that needs to change.

One of the few sensible posts on this thread I have seen. Everyone just seems to want to argue things on an emotional basis rather than discussing real facts. Here we are in the middle of a war and what do we talk about but meaningless nonsense. Focus your efforts and attention on something that still matters to our future.


[edit on 30-7-2005 by Astronomer68]

Fact is, the major party choices in the 2004 election were both bad. It was like being forced to vote for either Cthulu or Azogthoth - either way, you're screwed. In a political discussion with my mother, a die-hard Republican, the other night, she even agreed that the choices sucked, and that she would really like to see a viable third party candidate in 2008. Regarding the 2004 election, she said, "I didn't trust Bush, but I trusted Kerry even less. At least with Bush, I knew what we were in for." This seems to be the consensus among most voters during the 2004 election. 2008 should be more interesting. Bush can't run again, Jeb will probably try, but probably won't have much of a shot. Kerry will run again, but won't make it to the general election, because he's going to lose out to Hillary.

Whether or not the 2004 election was rigged is a completely moot point now. Either choice was bad. Wait until 2008 and make a difference then.

The point I was trying to make with my rather childish post above is this, there have been countless allegations of voter fraud. In order to get the type of votes needed, you would have needed hundreds of thousands of votes that were fraudulant. There is no evidence, except on looser sites, of this. The very biased media in this country would have been all over the fraud issue if there was anything to it.

There was a lot of hollering in 2000 over Florida, the votes there were recounted several times, still the same outcome, Bush over Gore. No many how often you scream fraud, the numbers don't support it. Gore was the looser, end of story.

Now, there are some claiming that there was a problem in Ohio (2004). Where is the proof. None of the main new outlets are reporting on this. It just those sore loosers wanting a reason to mumble and gripe. If there were anything to it, the Democratic party would bee all over it.

To expect the major news organisations to be unbasised when their history seems to show that they are bais as a matter of course is to say the least silly. There were a link on these boards a while ago where the computer programmer who worked on the software was testifying on how the program works?

How do you explain that? How do you explain that exit polls being that wrong? How do you explain so many problems throughout the country which only comman denomenator was a socio-economic one?

The election was stolen, as it was the last time. Voter's however are a forgiving lot as soon as you start to promise them stuff. Generally speaking, todays voters are willing to sell out their grandkids for the mere promise of goodies today. Pretty sick when you think about it.