Geezzz, Democracy died when FDR "bought" votes with the WPA garbage. Get over it, Kerry lost even with all the DNC and big labor ballot stuffing...................

i thougth Democracy died long time ago, wen there were many irregularities in past elections long before the 2004 elections.

heres the thing, as long as "their man wins" people don't care about how it happened. Republicans would not care if there were reports of people being forced to vote at gunpoint.

And honestly I would not be suprised if Kerry had won there would be massive reports of Democratic tampering of votes and those who voted for Kerry would be commenting that he won so get over it...

When Carter washs his hands of a country's electoral process then you know it is a total sham.

Let's be honest here...Democracy is just an illusion. It doesn't really exist.

No, no, the Republic died a long time ago, Democracy, unfortunately, is very much alive.
Yes, it is amazing that the Reps won considering the dirty tricks used by the Dems. That in itself is proof that the Reps must have cheated, too.

Remember the old saying about glass houses, BT?

Hello Pot, meet Kettle!

Sorry, the election thing is so passe, and who in their right minds would believe either side?

i just robbed your family, spit on everyhting your forefathers fought for, and am currently scaring your wife and children.

'get over it'.

toned down the gutter language.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

If demcracy died anywhere in 2004, it was in the Washington state gubernatorial election.

The Republic died in 1803 with Marby v Madison.

TC is right......democracy along with its moronic evil and stupidity known as "polling and policical correctness" are very much alive.

Jefferson is turning so fast in his grave you could generate enough electricity to power NYC................

Originally posted by billybob
i just murdered your family, pissed on everyhting your forefathers fought for, and am currently raping your wife and children.

'get over it'.

Too bad we don't have a "Best Dramatic Acting" Award, billybob! As we don't, I'll simply ask you to explain yourself. Especially when leading Dems have concluded that the election was not in any way stolen, but simply won. Especially since, had their been a chance for the two elitist lawyers to steal the election in court, they'd have done it.

Your analogy, if it is proper to call that sentence one, was overly crude. Tourette's syndrome, maybe? Do you really believe the opposing party, which has done nothing but damage the nation as well, would have done less damage? Please. Your crude dramatics are empty.

all right.
i didn't swear anymore than you can hear on family hour public broadcast.

why was i warned? because my argument was too strong?

i'm TIRED of the phrase 'get over it'. any full blooded human should be very upset about the state of the system.

lose the voting machines. people are supposed to vote. maybe HAL will win the next election. or C3PO or R2D2.

i was speaking metaphorically(with admitted powerful venom). my venom is directed at those who have STOLEN AMERICA. i won't 'get over it' until these uber criminals are all dead or in jail, and a vote actually counts for something other than pomp and circumstance.

i sincerely apologise if the truth is too harsh for some people to hear in such a visceral manner. bout time has layed out a list of documented crimes. three words are supposed to wave it off into oblivion like the truth is irrelevent(which, it admittedly is, LOL).


thanks for the warn. i've never had one. this one i will take as a badge of honour.

once again, sorry if i was too harsh. (which i don't think i was, HAHA. i think i soft-soaped it.)

families were murdered on 911 by the shadow gov.
the fact is, the constitution is what the forefathers fought for .....undermined by bushco with the patriot act and executive orders(handing the fed over to private bankers was the beginning of the end. bushco is just the current incarnation of an older cabal).
the franklin cover-up and the whitehouse kiddie parties(jeff gannon, et al) are literally the rape of children by our 'elected' 'leaders'.

get over it?

i'm just really SICK of that phrase.

I read through all that and think...

1 -- John Conyers is a mainstream, non-partisan, so his take must be accurate! (yeah right, he is one of the most polar figures in politics!)

2 -- Most of the the items mentioned by Conyers cut for and against both candidates... such as...

County boards of elections were ordered to reject all Ohio voter-registration forms not printed on white, uncoated paper of not less than 80 lb. text weight.

I think the democrats get really cheesed-off when people start following the law instead of giving them votes that weren't cast for them.

3 -- I haven't done a search to find it, but didn't someone do a study to show that even if EVERYTHING conyers alleges is true, Kerry would still have lost Ohio by quite a few votes (i.e., tens of thousands).

4 -- Isn't the REALY problem with democracy the fault of the democrats? We can't have a vote nowadays because if the democrats lose, they claim the vote is unfair or that some sort of election law was not properly followed.

You may not remember, but it was almost 2 am on the day after election day when John Edwards took the podium to announce that the fight wasn't over (with shades of the fight of 2000 over Florida looming in everyone's minds). Before Kerry conceded the next day, a CNN poll showed that 87% of people thought that Kerry should concede the election and that he had lost fair and square.

I love a good conspiracy, but I am 100% sure in this case that the democrats pulled just as many dirty tricks as the republicans. Did they lose because the republicans were better at the game? Maybe so, but America tends to always reward the one who plays the game better.

I don't hear too many people complaining about not having Kerry's wife as the first lady nowadays either... so I think any complaints over the 2004 election are just sour grapes that haven't made it into the trash yet.

Yup, it has been such as professional wrestling only nowadays they are in your face with the total mendacity of it all. Yeah so the Destroyer won over Megadeath. They are both the same agenda like shark's teeth, the only thing is the two parties did not even make a pretense of authenticity.

A generation and more ago the Kennedy-Nixon contest favored the "kingmaker's choice." They took JFK but he was just a bit too authentic after the election. At least they discussed sensible statistics and actual economics.

In today's political process there are too few comparisons of actual statistics, whereas they have been distorted. Instead you get more tabloid rubbish and ad hominem attacks, which were always there before, except it is blatant, stupid, and an insult to everyone's intelligence. The worst part is the people know it and still applaud these train wrecks.

I do not know how anyone in congress and any branch of government can sleep at night, but certainly with rare exceptions, no substantive issues are conversed either in campaigns nor in the basic kleptocratic sessions of draconian laws. It is a wonder things are going basically as good as things seem to be. Perhaps the wealth of the United States is so immense it can handle it, but the entire question centers upon sustainability. How long can you go about your business while the Huns and Robber Barons relentlessly setup their direction towards feudalism?

In the end run of all this when people do not know their rights they do not exercise them, and others assert what was once the province of a great nation.

Voting machines are just an extreme example of what has been happening for years.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by SkipShipman]

there are dirty tricks on both sides. The democrats get to own Kennedy working with the Chicago mob to get votes.

The system needs fixing, no doubt. The electoral college is waaaaay outdated. I'd support a change to have the system be simple majority rule, the most votes wins.

The only time this really matters is in a close race, otherwise all the dirty tricks don't realy effect the outcome.


.02

Democrats are complicit in this folks, make no mistake. A Senator or Representative or a Party Chair can garner press coverage with a phone call - why have the drums stopped beating ( with some, they never started) into investigating these things? Right now, the Democrat power elite are playing the role of Generalisimo Franco, the Bush Cabal Neocons are the Luftwaffe, and we are the citizens of Guernica.

Aah, those "Leading Democrats", hey Thomas?
If I was too abstract with the above: The Franco regime, as a way to placate the steam roller that was Hitler's war machine, willfully & intentionally offered up their citizens for death & destruction by allowing a live "scorched earth" blitzkreig practice on the mountain town of Guernica - killing man, woman, child & livestock.
The "Leading Democrats" are no different from the Franco regime.
The "sour Grapes" analogy is just so asinine.
By virtue of multiple sources & multiple occurrences, what DOES NOT warrant a full vetting? Who's talking about overturning the vote?

Another question: if you acknowledge "dirty tricks" & vote tampering, how do you , in good concious, want that left undisclosed!?!

People complain about a "lack of choice". They bemoan "the two party system". Yet, faced with solid proof of something worth investigating that would signify illegalites & colusion by the GOP & Dems, people will default to drivel about sour grapes & the 'republic'?
How the HELL DO YOU EXPECT viable third parties to break the strangle hold the the GOP & Dems have on the process!?!?! Or for the remaining stalwarts who put country before party & power, to bring the 'bad cops' to justice?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
there are dirty tricks on both sides.

...which is why there is not a huge fight. when two people have guns pointed at eachother, do you really think that either wants to shoot first knowing that they will be shot in return? hmm, sorta like a political civil cold war.

daved

Originally posted by Bush43
Geezzz, Democracy died when FDR "bought" votes with the WPA garbage. Get over it, Kerry lost even with all the DNC and big labor ballot stuffing...................

No, I thought it was when organized labor voted all the dead people around Chicago back in 1960, thereby giving the election to Kennedy.

Also liked the earlier comment about the Washington State governor's race in 2004. They did so many recounts there that they ended up with more votes than voters. And, you probably guessed it, the democrat won.

Everyone can say that everyone else is doing it.

So, how many years were you planning to spend upset and in a funk over the 2004 election? Bottom line is that it's way past time to moveon (.org) with your life.

[edit on 7/27/2005 by centurion1211]

So if either of these two parties can't be trusted, then why does everyone continue to vote for them? Choosing the lesser of two evils (if one is lesser than the other) isn't much of a choice. People have got to stop letting these two parties dictate how their country runs, because for however opposed to each other as they are, they do the same damn things.

You shouldn't have to 'get over it', you should change it. No matter where you stand both parties are unilaterally screwing the people over. Each side gets you to hate the other so you won't see the faults of their own. It's not about which side is doing what, its that the people aren't getting what they deserve from either and that needs to change.

Communism, Democracy, Dictorship,etc....

All are started out by humans who wanted power so that he can control others.

Hell, look at the wild animals, they have the same stuff too...

Everyone can expect a certain amount of corruption from both parties, but when the president of the voting machine companie says that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.", a line has to be drawn in the sand by anyone who loves their country.