Losing Jesus

Being born an Aquarius, I am fundamentally a truth seeker with rebellious tendencies to challenge authority. So back in 98 when I got my first PC and the Internet make me privy to a whole new universe, I barely flinched before jumping aboard the conspiracy band wagon. I had no way of knowing how this would change me forever.

Hatred is the only way to describe my feelings upon learning of the corruption and evil deeds perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church. It was their suppression and manipulation of holy doctrines that forged Christianity, resulting in "Holy Wars," inquisitions and papal genocide.

To learn how the church fathers edited what would became the Bible even to the extent of fabricating the immaculate conception, came as a complete surprise. This deception ensured no blood line could claim succession to the Pope's throne.

The Vatican confiscated hundreds of religious scrolls, as well as historically significant documents and public records. Anything viewed as potentially damming, was burned or secreted away in the Vatican vaults.

While Jesus' teachings on reincarnation were deliberately suppressed from the Bible, new fabrications such as Hell and eternal damnation, were added to instill fear and gain control of the masses. All who questioned church authority or doctrine were labeled hieratic.

After months of study, that I eventually came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ, as we were taught to think of him, never existed! I no longer believed him to be the supernatural son of God, anymore then you or I are. I certainly never wanted to relinquish my Jesus Christ whom I'd loved and prayed to my entire life, but in the end, common sense won out.

After the initial shock from this grand deception wore off, I was depressed for months, then became bitterly angry. With my faith forever shredded and my innocence shattered, I cried many tears for what I'd lost.

Unlike some, I never did equate Jesus to God. For me they were always separate. So, even though I've lost my savior, I find comfort in knowing, no one can ever take away my

Most of what you are pinning on the RCC was done before the RCC existed. Most of what you are saying is 'false doctrine' is stuff that the early community of christian beleivers stated was the orthodoxic and true doctrine. I think perhaps that you have uncritically accepted far too much of what you've read on the internet.

Monster, you are reading a lot of fabrications, speaking of fabrications. It sounds to me like you never had Jesus to lose. What you are suggesting that Jesus advocates (reincarnation) is not supported in the Scriptures, yet you know of Him and His gift of salvation through the Scriptures, which you say are warped and distorted. Pardon me for noticing a LOT of circular logic and lies on the part of the people who came up with the notions you've come upon.

If you don't like the RCC, fine. You have access to the KJV 1611, you can pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit and you can read with your heart open to God. You won't find the truth by reading propaganda created by those who want to distort any reality or understanding of Christ, though.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Unlike some, I never did equate Jesus to God. For me they were always separate. So, even though I've lost my savior, I find comfort in knowing, no one can ever take away my

and thats where you are right ..Jesus and God are not the same... the Trinity is man made...now i dont exatly understand why you lost your savior ???

Nygdan, what do you mean by done before the RCC existed. Name one thing I mentioned not done by the RCC.

And Thomas Crowne, I did have Jesus regardless of what you think. And I never revealed the facts behind my losing him, only dark deeds of the RCC.

It wasn't only the internet that convinced me of Jesus' mortality, it was books also. I own two of them; "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and Bloodlines of the Holy Grail."

Have you ever considered maybe you're the one reading propaganda?

I think in all of this that you have stated you've read and felt, Dollmonster--you need to find your own personal Jesus... saviour. He was the firstborn of God..not God totally...but a significant part. God is in him and he in God. He preached that a person can be forgiven his sins so he can feel self worth and still do good (Be good) and not dwell on condeming themselves...that's what being saved is...in other words..don't throw yourself away for past mistakes..none of us can be perfect...that's the thing. Religion is good for togetherness in helping each other and holding each other up, plus teaching of things not understood. Throw out the rest.

Good luck in your striving to find the truth and God bless

Originally posted by dollmonster
Nygdan, what do you mean by done before the RCC existed. Name one thing I mentioned not done by the RCC.

Christianity as practiced today by members of the RCC and Orthodox church and indeed in many aspects most churches, was already set before the RCC. The RCC had was not around at the Council of Nicea, for example. The Pope was just the metropolitan of Rome (or Ravenna at times), not the 'pope'. There was no such thing as a 'catholic' theology at the time.

And Thomas Crowne, I did have Jesus regardless of what you think. And I never revealed the facts behind my losing him, only dark deeds of the RCC.
Not for nothing, but why would the actions of the RCC make you do that? YOu are saying that the RCC made jesus into much more than he realyl was, which was just a man who was....nice. If anything you only 'had jesus' in the first place because of the RCC and things like the Orthodox Church, because according to you they basically invented him as son of god and redeemer.

It wasn't only the internet that convinced me of Jesus' mortality, it was books also. I own two of them; "Holy Blood Holy Grail" and Bloodlines of the Holy Grail."

Dear god man, those are fictional books! Based on fraudulent documents and hoaxes in part too!

Have you ever considered maybe you're the one reading propaganda?

After hearing the above I can't beleive you'd actually suggest that of anyone else.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Being born an Aquarius, I am fundamentally a truth seeker with rebellious tendencies to challenge authority. So back in 98 when I got my first PC and the Internet make me privy to a whole new universe, I barely flinched before jumping aboard the conspiracy band wagon. I had no way of knowing how this would change me forever.

You were probably unprepared with the tools that you needed to sort fiction from fact. There are a lot of websites out there -- but remember our Due Dilligence motto. Not everything is true (much of it is drivel, and badly repeated drivel) and a lot is propaganda with a very specific negative agenda.

Hatred is the only way to describe my feelings upon learning of the corruption and evil deeds perpetuated by the Roman Catholic church. It was their suppression and manipulation of holy doctrines that forged Christianity, resulting in "Holy Wars," inquisitions and papal genocide.

Nothing about this religion is whitewashed peace-and-light, from the actions of the Hebrews toward other people (a number of genocides occur in the Bible) to the Protestant-sanctioned genocides that occurred within the past 400 years (American Indians can give you an earfull about this.) And as to "truths"... well... I'm not sure that any of them really have continued an unbroken chain of doctrine.

It changes according to the culture and the times. America has greatly changed Protestantism (which used to be firmly for slavery.)

To learn how the church fathers edited what would became the Bible even to the extent of fabricating the immaculate conception, came as a complete surprise. This deception ensured no blood line could claim succession to the Pope's throne.

Well, in their defense, they had to have a standard set of books. But you make it sound like it was a quick decision instead of a 100+ year battle.

The Vatican confiscated hundreds of religious scrolls, as well as historically significant documents and public records. Anything viewed as potentially damming, was burned or secreted away in the Vatican vaults.

Remember Sturgeon's Law? About 99% of that is real drivel, let me tell you. Many of the documents have been released, and there's a lot of faked gospel in the collection. They did a reasonable job of keeping obvious frauds out of the Bible.

While Jesus' teachings on reincarnation were deliberately suppressed from the Bible, new fabrications such as Hell and eternal damnation, were added to instill fear and gain control of the masses. All who questioned church authority or doctrine were labeled hieratic.

This isn't new. This happened BEFORE the Bible was created. Remember the Revelation of St John? Early text, full of all sorts of Hell and eternal damnation and put into the Bible.

After months of study, that I eventually came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ, as we were taught to think of him, never existed! I no longer believed him to be the supernatural son of God, anymore then you or I are. I certainly never wanted to relinquish my Jesus Christ whom I'd loved and prayed to my entire life, but in the end, common sense won out.

There's also no historical evidence of him.

Unlike some, I never did equate Jesus to God. For me they were always separate.

Yeah, I always thought the deification of Jesus was weird. However, it was a fairly standard religious practice in that area of the world -- heroes and teachers were promoted as gods (and so were kings.)

Sounds like you've become a deist. I think that's a more liberating mindset. DO, however, carefully research things on the Internet... there are Catholic bashing sites that frankly are full of hatred and misinformation (Jack Chick comes to mind.) Always, ALWAYS go to the original sources as much as you can -- including checking out the Vatican online documents.

And always, ALWAYS check the historical record.

If you want curruption of the words of Jesus and the Bible read the Koran.

Here are a few helpful links on Deism:

Deism Defined

DEISM: The God That Got Away

Wikipedia Encyclopedia Definition of Deism

On the topic of Reincarnation & Christianity:

Reincarnation Was A Strong Belief Among Early Christians

Personally, even though I've studied the histories of several different religions & have seen the rampant corruption of organized religion, my own Faith was strengthed by the fact that I found out what those corruptions were & determined not to let an organization wrought by men to undermine my Faith.

Hang in there baby...True enlightenment always comes at the price of losing the illusion. I merely gave up believing in the illusion & kept Faith with God.

BTW Time Lord...The Koran is based upon the teachings of Abraham when he traveled. That was before the time of Moses & Jesus. Much of the earliest Koran writings were done by a warrior, not a priest.

For using the name of "Time Lord" I'd have thought you'd pay closer attention to the timelines...

The Bible plays close attention to time lines and bloodlines and has chronological consistancy and historical backing. I believe in Biblical prophecy and its nice to see how this time line is shaping up quite nicely to it all. If the creation teaching fails then all the largest religions fail if that timeline is false.

After Abraham came many other prophets and it was always about the Jews who contained the blood line of Adam who passed onto Noah, Abraham, king David etc to Jesus as the most uncurrupt blood line of Adam and his original sin so that the rest could be saved. That's time lording from Gods perspective.

Originally posted by The time lord
That's time lording from Gods perspective.

All I was referring to was that you stated that the Koran corrupted the Word from Jesus...Which seems highly unlikely because the Koran was originally written before Jesus. I meant no hostility, merely pointing out a "timeline discrepency" in what you'd posted.

Which one are you


Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold some sixty, some thirty.

I don't mind being wrong I want to understand things and if Im wrong its good to point it out no problem.

I do'nt understand because the Jewish Torah the old testiment was written up to Malachi before Jesus rather than the Koran. Was the koran witten before the Bible because Mohammad came about 650AD as the true word of God and anything before it was apparently the currupt version anyway. The koran only has the first five books of the Bible and the rest of history does not really count in between to the Koran untill Jesus is mentioned. In terms of curruption I mean everything was rewritten from scatch and it denies that Jesus was the son of God and says the trinity includes Mary when it does not, no one ever did. It says read the book (the bible) but it says its wrong also.

Hebrew the language of the Old Testiment the Torah was there before Arabic was invented. And the Arabs used old Hindu numerics apparently.

If im wrong tell me have I missed something?

I think that its written somewhere in revelations that God hates doctrine but im not sure...can someone help me on this one?

Written by BYRD:

There's also no historical evidence of him.(referring to Jesus)

And always, ALWAYS check the historical record.

-parenthesis's mine -mercury19



Sorry but...Thallus-historian ca.52 AD wrote of him
Mara-Serapion ca. 73 AD "
Cornelius Tacitus Roman historian wrote of him ca. 112 AD
Pliny the Younger-governor of Blithynia Asia Minor ca.112 AD
Seutonia court official under Hadrian ca. 102 AD

There are more if you'd like


[edit on 7/25/2005 by mercury19]

Originally posted by Vampcrow
I think that its written somewhere in revelations that God hates doctrine but im not sure...can someone help me on this one?

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

Balaam was a prophet for sale. He sold his gift for money. When God would not let him curse the jews that came up from Egypt, he instead told the guy who wanted him to curse the jews, how to get the jews to fall from favor with God. Put some hotty women folk outside their came and entice the young men to come over.
Find the rest in Exodus, Deut, or Numbers...I forget.

The Nicolaitanes had a system of preists over the people. The people had to go through the priests and the church for everything they wanted with God....instead of just going one on one with God like Jesus showed us.
You can see an example of this today in several church types.

The clearer historians are about the past the more evidence I see. The discovery channel just compliments the Bible in Big ways, from the scattering of people from the Genesis 11 and pyramids all over the world/tower of Babel and human sacrificing to persian, Egyptian, Roman Greeks and Jeruselem 100bc it all says it existed before people even had TVs to convince them that it was true of these places. Science helps explain things it opens the Bible up to more understanding. Sometimes they are wrong first time like the Egyptian PYRAMIDS and when they correct them selves 10 years later with new documentaries its quite facinating.

dollmonster said: I am fundamentally a truth seeker with rebellious tendencies to challenge authority.

So was Jesus....He pissed many religious leaders(Pharisees, Sages, Rabbis) off constantly with truth. Some thought he was absolutely crazy or posessed with demons or even the devil incarnate. His message did save though. I thought of something when you said Losing Jesus that made me think what christianity has become today. I see alot of christians trying to intermingle Law and Grace (Galationism). Seems many christians use the obedience through fear and guilt tactic which is basically another gospel according to christ. People didnt hang out with christ because they were scared of going to hel,,,they hung out with him because for once in their lives they felt accepted , relieved and reassured. I see many christians worshipping the Bible and not christ himself...its all him and none of us. The Bible/Scripture is there to make ya give up..to finally come to a place of ,,"I cant do it anymore, and turn to christ" God has basically put salvation into the most simplest form but many of us still want to gut it out...scare others with "Gods gonna get you" scripture and we wonder why people hate the church or God.

I heard one minister say something that really made sense to me. He said: "God didnt come to earth to get man out of hell and into heaven , he came to get himself out of heaven and into man" I get tingles thinking of that to this day.

If ya want some good basic christian training a guy out of Dallas Tx by the name of Bob George really helped me alot. He is far from condemnation and hes a good guy.
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