Wicca and Paganism... The old religions

Religion, ALL RELIGIONS, are a form of control. Each and every one is nothing more than a cult for no other reason then they close your mind to the broader realities of our existence.

They battle among themselves not for the glory of the creator but for the converts and sheeple that will bring them the power and gold of this world, which they so hungrily lust after.

It matters not what religion you follow, each is just a differant label on the same bottle of snake oil.

Free the chains from your mind and the chains on your soul will melt away.

Love and light,

Wupy

PS: this is just my humble opinion

I totally agree with that statement and by basic pricipals are based on our natural powers. I believe in all teachings, as long as there are no controlling mechanisms that will bring advantage to just a few.

My journy is spiritual, not religious.

Love and Light to you also...

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Before there was Chaos there was energy, this energy is what Wicca and Paganism are all about.

"Before mankind, before the planets and stars and even before the birth of the universe, the truth existed. It is the only thing that has never changed. It is the only thing that has never needed to change." M. Redman

Though i'm often at odds with his personal philosophy, I have to agree with him on this one.

Wupy

Originally posted by LoneGunManMy journy is spiritual, not religious.

Love and Light to you also...

And with that statement, we enter an entirely new debate.
I, too, reject religion for spirituality.

Good answer!

Hi all, i think you should all take a look at this article of which i have come accross. i found it on the wicca.com's message boards. The article itself even earned itself stickiness on the board, and its title is the truth about wicca.

wicca.com...

Yeah Wicca is a religion in itself, When I titled the thread I used the name Wicca because it is recognisable as a religion. My beliefs lie in the spiritual side of nature, and the power that different forms of energy can bring to your life.

It is my belief that the power of the mind, body, soul and the energy that comes from nature is a good thing that has been made to be evil by the various leaders of the world.

Oh yeah what do all of you think of my new Avatar I just made?

Originally posted by masqua

When you think of God, do you visualize a man somewhere observing us all or do you look at a rock and visualize that rock BEING God?

You see, Jake...the Creator to me is everything that exists, whether it is Earth or a star in some distant galaxy.

The creator to me is a being. We are the image of Him.
The creation itself bears a resemblence of the one who made it.
You see aspects of the creator in the creation. This is normal. Scripture agrees with you.

As for the talk about 'religion' in the last few posts... I agree. Im not into religion and ritual excercise for the sake of something to do or whatever.

True Christianity™ is about a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I have that relationship. I talk and He hears. He talks and sometimes I hear. Im getting better.
The Model T isnt the creator. Neither is the factory. Henry Ford is.

Thats the best I can do to show you what I see.

Thanks for your excellent reply, Jake. I would under no circumstance argue with you on your beliefs for they are as valid as anything I envision myself.

We part ways on the 'image', though, because in my simple way I cannot disassociate nature from humanity. When i see a nice stag in the bush or a perfect Rainbow trout spawning, I can't help myself but see something special and beautiful. To me, the 'image of God' (I prefer Deity) is in it all, no matter what I'm looking at.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan


My journey is spiritual, not religious.

...

Thank-you. If people would spend more time on being spiritual and not religious than we'd be making progress. But no....... everyone has to be right well newsflash,....everyone cant be.

So anyway, I believe in one GOD who created us, I also believe in Jesus which makes me a Christian. Those mini-gods, if they exist are here to serve us not the other way around.
.....I'm also aware, appreciate, and will use what GOD has blessed us with it the form of nature. ie. Energies, Strength of Will, Natural Remedy, Visions etc

Im sorry but you dont leave a baby in the playpen without toys.

Gotta go but Id love to see where this goes. Be back Friday Night

Originally posted by DragonflyKingdom



.....I'm also aware, appreciate, and will use what GOD has blessed us with it the form of nature. ie. Energies, Strength of Will, Natural Remedy, Visions etc

It does my spirit good to here a Christian acknowledge the power of nature and that we are also part of nature so therefore can use these powers. No narrow-mindedness there my Chistian friend!

You know, some people believe that Paganism and Wicca go back to the story of Cain.

www.harrypottermagic.org... This is one website I found about nature worship.

I will explain this about some Pagan religions, they have a connection with Sun-Serpent worship.

Satan also known as "Serpent" that tempted Adam and Eve. It goes on and evermore to my based belief system.

The Sun-Serpent Religion gets its Start!,
www.harrypottermagic.org...

History Shows the Cruel and Bloody Practices of the Pagan Sun-Serpent Religion,
www.harrypottermagic.org...

The Worship of the Serpent,
www.sacred-texts.com...

DRAGONS AND WINGED SERPENTS, (Find out how the serpent affects Egypt and other pagan religions)
www.harrypottermagic.org...

I myself do little practice meditation and energy work. I watch what I work through to develope myself spiritually. I would suggest healing as a medthod to cure illness and disease and prayer the most power of all meditation workings.

But however, I found something interesting about the Kundalini. This is to the ones who pratice meditation and energy work.

www.darkstar1.co.uk...

"Kundalini literally means 'coiling,' like a snake." www.crystalinks.com...

"Kundalini: Awakening the Serpent Power"
www.yoga-age.com...

"Did the kundalini serpent lie when revealing that "your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil"?"

www.adishakti.org...

You ever heard of the man in the ship calling out his pagan God for help and assistance but didnt get a deliverance? Yet Jesus helped them out through his.

I am not saying to go start bashing all Pagans/Wiccans, pray to the Lord God they can find faith. Respect them like anyone else. Dont force your beliefs on anyone.

Watch what you worship.

[edit on 27-7-2005 by phantomviewer]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Why the "New religions" (Catholic, Christain, etc.) try to put Wicca into the evil trick bag.

Quite simply, people fear what they do not understand; therefore, it is evil.

Thanks Gun.

When I sit and think about this type of conflict, I really see no foundation.

It's all about control. Doing this by saying it is against GOD, and works of Evil is the most generic and un-supported of all that I know of.

GOD knows his children, he knows whats in our heart, and he knows what we want before we want it. If your intentions are true, then you are all set. I guess its all about free will, knowing your limits and not creating lies using your tools or gifts of nature.

I always remember this passage stating something to the effect of,: the greatest trick the devil has devised is that he doesnt exist.

Well,.... I think another one of his tricks is getting confused (or maybe not) humans with power to condemn and murder those who have established a connection between nature and GOD and are enlightened because of it.

Are any of you familiar with the Cathars??

Hi all,

I myself am a Christian. I go to church regularly because I love the fellowship I have there and the chance to worship in a corporate setting, but am not in a place where I feel that I "must go". I don't go around bashing other's beliefs because I feel that mine are more right than anyone elses. When I feel the need to go someplace "sacred" and pray and meditate on major issues in my life I do slip out of the house and head to my church, turn on the cd player and slip in a cd in the sanctuary, just out of habit and my need to feel a closeness, though I recognize that God is in all things. For me, though, it just feels right.

When I am just in awe of God's majesty, though, I feel him when I walk through the woods, when I look at a gently moving stream, when I lay under a magnificent tree and see the intricacies of the limbs and realize how perfect it all is. I honor nature and see God's handiwork in all things as the creator, but how I view it is a far cry from worshiping the tree as the creator, rather than the creator for his creation.

I see the beauty in everything, and I honor it as a part of creation, but I don't worship the creation or question it's creation. All of us have a connection with the creator, just some's connection is more realized than others.

When I pray, I don't pray to the rock by the lake. I don't pray to the tree for it's magnificence, but I pray to my Father, my God, my creator. I pray to Abba, the one who created me in his image, and therefore opened my eyes to see the beauty of his creation. Creation show's his splendor, his majesty, and yes, even his humor. Just think of the elephants and the long snout, the ostrich and it's neck, the duck billed platupus. Think of the God who could find create the giraffe with such a long neck and you realize his humor.

I speak no ill of those who do not deny God's existence, because I once denied it. When I accepted his existence as fact, my eyes were opened, though. I began to be able to appreciate beauty in nature, for what it's worth. Yes, I believe that there is energy that flows through the universe, but, more specifically, through the earth. I have my own thoughts on what the breath of life that was breathed into Adam by God was, but for an unwillingness to begin a huge debate I won't name what I believe it to be. I will say that energy flows through every creation on this planet, though, to greater or lesser degrees.

To Christians out there who are hostile to people of differing views than you, I ask you to stop your ranting and ramblings. People of more "earthy" beliefs than you are not necessarily wrong in their views, and, besides, they have heard all the scripture references that you are throwing at them. Also, if you believe that getting all hot and bothered at them and just casting scripture at them will change their views, you are sorely mistaken. Open your eyes to what they have to say about nature, not with them trying to convert you or anything, just to understand the beauty of the creation that they see, and then maybe you can talk civily. People only recipricate and listen openly to you when you listen with an open mind to what they are trying to say to you. Many times, they just want you to appreciate the beauty and symetry of it all.

just my thoughts,
regs

Personally I dont see how someone can have a connection to GOD without first appreciating what he has created and its power within itself. It also disturbs me that many Christians are quick to condemn people when those individuals or groups are probably closer to GOD. In fact it empowers.

Do you agree with the crusades and murder that massacred tons of "non-mainstream" Christians, but Christians never the less, because they were one with nature???

And what did you really expect to be woven in Christianity when Slavery and Wars camped people and took them to foreign lands?? All they had was their version of religion. And its woven into Christianity over time because they worshipped their deities under the guise of your Saints to make you happy or else face death. Thats not very Christian.

ANd then what happens is these people are introduced to the Supreme GOD of Christianity, and it still works out. Reason being they've already established a connection to the Earth/Nature and no matter what, every culture has looked to the heavens. They all knew there was some supreme being who blessed them with nature and the tools to survive.

Christianity confirmed that, but those forced, born into, born-again etc..... hundreds of years ago into this day try to force others into Christianity or suffer name calling, condemation, etc.

.....you have no connection, just word of mouth.

Originally posted by LadyV

....you have no idea what you open up here..... though what you say is absolutely correct...there are always those that can't/won't see it, and then there are those that will just start spouting bible verse at you....I'm gonna just sit back and watch.

Blessings

And, you guys can't/won't see the truth. Pfft!

Anyone notice this isn't a conspiracy but simply faith/theology?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne


Anyone notice this isn't a conspiracy but simply faith/theology?

I noticed, but I couldnt get the move feature to work so I just joined in , instead.

Originally posted by DragonflyKingdom
.....you have no connection, just word of mouth.

I will second that! I dont remember if I said this or not, but I used to be a church consultant for bot Catholic and Protestant churches. I have been to over 1,000 churches and spoken to as many pastors and priests. I always get a similar answer to this question:

If Adolf Hitler, at the end of his life saw the error of his killing so many, repented and accepted Jesus Christ into his heart and asked for forgiveness would he go to Heaven or Hell?

The usual answer is Heaven.

I then ask:

If a man that was truely good, always had good thoughts, lived good life and took care of friend, and strangers alike. He raised a good family and taught them the difference between what is good and what is bad, an over all great and good guy. At the end of his life, with full knowledge of Jesus Christ and the bible, refused to believe that Jesus was his savior, and would not repent. Would this man go to Heaven or Hell?

The usual answer is Hell!

I cannot accept these answers. My God is a God of Empathy. A God of love. A god of understanding and forgiveness. They have used The Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ in such a way as to control people through fear. This is an abomination of all that is rightous and good. Just MHO.

"If you say "look there, the kingdom of heaven is in the water", then the fish have preceded you. If you say "look there, the kingdom of heaven is in the sky", then the birds have preceded you. If you look within for the father of all creation then the kingdom of heaven is within you, and then all around you." -- Yehoshua ben Yoseph, a.k.a. Jesus --

If the creator is within us, then all around us, seems to me there is some fundamental similarities between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Wiccan spiritual experience.

I don't believe religions are specifically systems of control as one poster indicates. I humbly dissagree. I believe some people utilize religion to control others, but that is individuals, and groups, not the truth or the source.

Some say "Love is blind."

I say "Love is blind only if what you love blinds you."

How can truth be seperate from truth?
How can you hold truth in your left hand, and truth in your right hand, but when you form a bowl with your hands and combine the contents of both hands, there is no truth.

There has to be truth in all of it, or the truth is, it isn't truth, therefor it doesn't exist. Anything that exists, by definition is truth.

And whatever label you try to confine and quantify what the ultimate observer, the first conscious singularity that begot all of this, there is only one word to do so, and it is not "god".

the term "god" has so many different connotations to so many people.

Everyone can agree on the word "Truth", whether their truth is the same or not, god to date seems to elude us as a whole.

7,000 years of written and recorded history, and not one week without war, killing and destruction.

7,000 years of history on Earth and mankind has not gone 7 consecutive days knowing peace.

Nice paradigm. Things should probably change.

For some Christians they see anything that is contray to thier ideology as works of satan, since wiccians dont worship the Biblical God they can be labeled and smeared.

wiccians and Christians can poke holes into eachother's faiths in an attempt to prove thier way is the right one but in the end neither is going ot have the final word on what is right. So it is best to use that energy to respect and understand one another.

For me being a Christian, since pagans and wiccans don't Pray to Jesus Christ to save them, I belive that they are going to suffer enternal hell. But I am going to have a REAL hard time convincing any wiccans of that.

At least we have gone beyond drowning 'witches' and buring them at the stake. Or throwing Christians to the lions. At least there is some progress of cultural evolution happening