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Wicca and Paganism... The old religions

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posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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Why the "New religions" (Catholic, Christain, etc.) try to put Wicca into the evil trick bag. Pagan goes back to its roots in the Dravidian living in the Indus valley goes back 30,000 years or more.

Wicca is from these old religions and is the power of nature. We derive our power from the source, the universe. It has nothing to do with Satan, and has everything to do with what is natural and good.

The "New religions" took over during the Aryan expansion of 2100 B.C.E. It was with the need for rulers and followers in a warlike culture, and created a need for dieties to enforce a ruling class and a warrior class, with a priesthood to stand between the masses and the elite.




posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Why the "New religions" (Catholic, Christain, etc.) try to put Wicca into the evil trick bag.

Paganism was christianity's main rival so stigmatising it paved the way to nearly destroying it.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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....you have no idea what you open up here..... though what you say is absolutely correct...there are always those that can't/won't see it, and then there are those that will just start spouting bible verse at you....I'm gonna just sit back and watch.

Blessings



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
....you have no idea what you open up here..... though what you say is absolutely correct...there are always those that can't/won't see it, and then there are those that will just start spouting bible verse at you....I'm gonna just sit back and watch.

Blessings


Hahaha I know only a true Wiccan understands....

I usedto be a church consultant for Catholic and Protestant churches, and have literally been to thousands of chuches throughout the midwest. The underlying theme was always control.

I wish I could see all those pastors and priests faces if they knew I was Pagan. Oh yeah LadyV, Merry met to you!



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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I'll be first out of the gate and be critical of both the terms 'Wicca' and 'paganism'. Both, imo, are unworthy to describe what I believe you are presenting.

I do not believe wicca is, of itself, an old religion. Rather, it is one begun 50 years ago in the hopes of reviving, in some way, the Old Religion.
As to paganism, this term derives from 'country dweller' and most likely refers to those who are 'tuned' to the seasons for agricultural reasons, primarely.

What really was replaced by the new religions of the western world was the worship of the feminine.

It is interesting, to say the very least on the subject, that the re-establishment of the feminine co-incides with the emerging age of Aquarius...a definative feminine symbol.

Lady V is right, you are going to be inundated by scripture.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Merry met to you also....there are several of us openly here....and several here that not out of the closet yet...
I guess any further banter back and forth should be by U2 cause some of the mods will surely call us on it otherwise.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Why the "New religions" (Catholic, Christain, etc.) try to put Wicca into the evil trick bag. Pagan goes back to its roots in the Dravidian living in the Indus valley goes back 30,000 years or more.

Wicca is from these old religions and is the power of nature. We derive our power from the source, the universe. It has nothing to do with Satan, and has everything to do with what is natural and good.

The "New religions" took over during the Aryan expansion of 2100 B.C.E. It was with the need for rulers and followers in a warlike culture, and created a need for dieties to enforce a ruling class and a warrior class, with a priesthood to stand between the masses and the elite.



First, I want to thank you for noticing that there is a marked difference between the catholic brand of christianity and the others.

Why does wicca get painted in the light it is (as evil)?
The bible teaches us, even commands us, that we will worship the Lord God, and that He alone is worthy of our worship.
We are taught that the thing we hold most important in our life is our God/god.
Some gods are merely idols.

Looking around we see that people put many different things as #1 in their life.
Job?
Sex?
Money?
Food
Auto
Knowledge thats only worthwhile if you appear on jeapordy


Anyway...because we were made BY God, for God...then turning away form God is to do evil in the sight of God.

I dont think YOU are a mean SOB person for practicing wicca. I dont think your going to poison my dog and eat my children. Your no worse or less off then the person who puts any one of those other things ahead of God. Lost or misled.
As for the historical part, we will never agree on dates but I will say that from the beginning, man went astray.

You say that the power of wicca comes from the universe. I say that the universe was created by God, for the earth to exist, and the earth was created for mankind.
The power behind the opposition to God has a source in the being you mentioned. Satan. He doesnt need you to war against God or Gods people. He only wants you to disbelieve in God.

If you can actually invoke some kind of power via wicca, then what I have told you is testable if your game



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997


Anyway...because we were made BY God, for God...then turning away form God is to do evil in the sight of God.



You say that the power of wicca comes from the universe. I say that the universe was created by God, for the earth to exist, and the earth was created for mankind

The power behind the opposition to God has a source in the being you mentioned. Satan. He doesnt need you to war against God or Gods people. He only wants you to disbelieve in God.



As I have said a thousands times here.....yes, it gets old....this is only your belief and what you believe does not make it truth any more than mine, make it truth. This is the big problem. Some people think that because they believe it with all their heart, it's true, well, I believe with all my heart in my faith too...


[edit on 7/24/05 by LadyV]



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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(By Jake)


Anyway...because we were made BY God, for God...then turning away form God is to do evil in the sight of God.

This only works if the God you worship is a seperate entity from nature. If the God you worship IS nature, as in Pantheism (which is my belief), then it is not a turning away from God/Creator, but, rather an awakening to the deity within all of existence.

edit to include quote poster (my bad)



[edit on 24-7-2005 by masqua]



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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The bible teaches us, even commands us


To what bible do you refer? The original, that has been destroyed? The old testament, The new testament, King James? They were all rewrites of the original works, twisted to control man through fear...

LadyV, you and I both know( I am sure it happend to you too) our faith has been proven to us through readings...

The bible has great teachings, you just have to get rid of the fear control mechanisms. No true God gains trust through fear, mankind's elite and leaders are the practicing fear mongers, not a generous kind God.

Jesus Christ, The Prince of Peace would never approve of what modern Christianity has become...



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by masqua



This only works if the God you worship is a seperate entity from nature. If the God you worship IS nature, as in Pantheism (which is my belief), then it is not a turning away from God/Creator, but, rather an awakening to the deity within all of existence.

edit to include quote poster (my bad)



[edit on 24-7-2005 by masqua]


Well said masqua, I have respect for Pantheism.

God is nature and nature is god, we are of both...



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan

God is nature and nature is god, we are of both...


And I could not have said it any better than you just did. We agree and that is no small thing between differing views in religions.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
We agree and that is no small thing between differing views in religions.


What a powerfu statement.


That statement just sent my mind off into so many thoughts I dont know where to begin! Very deep on so many levels.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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I have a book in my private library entitled "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike circa about 1885. In it if find this same pattern repeated over and over along with some other doctrines that seem somewhat to be related to that patterns.
Femminine, Sacred Femminine, Panthiesm, Esoteric, Kaballah, etc etc etc. Is there a relationship here.
By the way this book covers the 33 degrees in Scottish Rite Freemasonry. is there a relationship going back to the ancient times of which you speak??
I found a similar pattern in a book by Hargrave Jennings entitled" The Rosecrucians Their Rites and Mysteries circa 1887.
These two books seem to hint at a totally different pattern of knowlege and looking at things. It took me quite a number of readings to catch on to this. This awareness has caused me to look at news , information and educational systems through different eyes.
What I began to sense over time was that there is a whole arena of history and knowlege missing from most of what passes for education today. Even at college levels. I dont think it is accidental.

Enquiring minds,
Thanks
Orangetom



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Yes the history of man has mostly been re-written in order to fit the way things are today. It is all about control. I am almost positive the world leaders know how to tap the powers of the universe, and hve been keeping most of it from the masses.

The power of nature is unlimited, the modern paganists and Wiccans have scratched the surface. What has been stolen and hidden from us though is kept by the few, they then have handed us a very childish religion that controls us.

The powerful few practice something different. Look up Bohemian Grove, this is only a tidbit of what has been found of thee few that control the many.


Odd

posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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wicca was developed in the 60s, and even paganism is only as old as Mankind.

chaos, however, has been around for far longer than either, and it will outlive everything... perhaps you should learn to use it.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
As I have said a thousands times here.....yes, it gets old....this is only your belief and what you believe does not make it truth any more than mine, make it truth. This is the big problem. Some people think that because they believe it with all their heart, it's true, well, I believe with all my heart in my faith too...

[edit on 7/24/05 by LadyV]



masqua

Anyway...because we were made BY God, for God...then turning away form God is to do evil in the sight of God.



This only works if the God you worship is a seperate entity from nature. If the God you worship IS nature, as in Pantheism (which is my belief), then it is not a turning away from God/Creator, but, rather an awakening to the deity within all of existence.



umm

this was the question that was being answered




Why the "New religions" (Catholic, Christain, etc.) try to put Wicca into the evil trick bag.


I answered it. Thats all.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999 is there a relationship going back to the ancient times of which you speak??
I found a similar pattern in a book by Hargrave Jennings entitled" The Rosecrucians Their Rites and Mysteries circa 1887.


I began questioning and changing my beliefs primarely because of involvement with Rosicrucianism back in the early 70's. I sincerely believe that there is a connection with the ancient past through such readings. A past more ancient than a few thousand years staying alive through primitive societies as they are in my neck of the woods is very interesting.

I spent some time being a part of 'pagan groups' such as Wicca but was really surprised to find amazing similarities between those beliefs and the ones that Native Americans hold.

There is still a very vibrant and living alternative to the male dominated priesthoods alive in the world today...one only needs to connect with them because very little has been written or put onto the web.

I've been lucky enough to fall into the friendship of a native healer, a shaman and a story teller...all three had a profound effect on my life and now it seems Pantheism is the only spirituality that makes any sense to me at all.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997

masqua

Anyway...because we were made BY God, for God...then turning away form God is to do evil in the sight of God.



This only works if the God you worship is a seperate entity from nature. If the God you worship IS nature, as in Pantheism (which is my belief), then it is not a turning away from God/Creator, but, rather an awakening to the deity within all of existence.



umm

this was the question that was being answered



When you think of God, do you visualize a man somewhere observing us all or do you look at a rock and visualize that rock BEING God?

You see, Jake...the Creator to me is everything that exists, whether it is Earth or a star in some distant galaxy.



posted on Jul, 24 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Odd
wicca was developed in the 60s, and even paganism is only as old as Mankind.



Wicca as a religion, its roots go back to paganism and the roots of Paganism are as old as the universe.

Before there was Chaos there was energy, this energy is what Wicca and Paganism are all about.




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