Who Murdered 32 Iraqi Children?

Point taken - I did not realize they verified they did this.

Originally posted by Amuk
That you are grasping at straws to try to make us look like bloodthirsty child killers and will repeat ANY lie that suits that purpose.

Well Sir, is it a Smart Thing to do, to Patrol Baghdad City (the most Dangerous City in the World) and Surround your Patrol With Children?

OK, they were giving out candy, but they also have to Think about, what would happen if they got under attack, since US Forces are usually the Target of Insurgent Attacks.

Wouldnt that Endanger the Children?

Although I usually disagree with you, I have in the past respected your opinion.

Does that Mean I have lost Your Respect now?

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I wonder how you can even look at yourself in the mirror. In your mind, America does nothing right and everything wrong.

When Talking about War on Terror and the Iraqi Invasion - YES, the American Goverment Today is doing Everything Wrong.

And the Mirror can stand me so far - it has not Broken yet.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
oh, and can you change your avatar now ?

Nope.

Why should I do That - becuse You said so?

Originally posted by Lartsa Cleargleam
Well said, xu.

The fact that Souljah is being attacked (by moderators, no less) for either a) posting his opinion that he is entitled to on a conspiracy forum, and/or b) posting someone else's opinion that he finds interesting is really despicable.

Thank You and Thanks to mister xu and for Your Open Mindness!



[edit on 20/7/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Wouldnt that Endanger the Children?

near the Americans or not, they still be targeting the children. thats how it is. the terrorists can kill anibody they want. after all they are Shiite children in a Shiite neigborhood, so killing the children is logic to the terrorists to eliminate those who they view as a threat to them in the future.

Originally posted by deltaboy
near the Americans or not, they still be targeting the children. thats how it is. the terrorists can kill anibody they want.

OR maybe they were Targetting American Soldiers?

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Souljah
Your Thoughts?

That you are grasping at straws to try to make us look like bloodthirsty child killers and will repeat ANY lie that suits that purpose.

In all fairness to Souljah, all we have heard from the Media are very one sided reports telling us that the Insurgents carried out the attack. The Media may very well be correct, but how do we know for certain? Some people with a different perspective to what the media is saying might think the media is out to make the Insurgents look like "bloodthirsty child killers" and will "repeat ANY lie that suits that purpose."

I sincerely believe that the vast majority of armed forces in Iraq (as individuals, and as squads) would have an ever so slight moral objection in targeting and killing large groups of innocent children, to say the least, but that goes for the Insurgents as well, you know, what possible gain would they achieve in Blowing up their own Children (Shiite or not) in such a manner? Even though the use of cars packed with explosives, and driven at Occupation vehicles or checkpoints and then detonated is a familiar tactic of the Insurgency.


The media has stated the Insurgents are responsible, Souljah has just highlighted a few points from a different angle, or perspective, contrary to that (questionable sources or not). Notice the thread title? "Who murdered 32 Iraqi children?” it's a question, isn't it? Propaganda or not, Souljah didn't carry out that "study", or make that website, he just pasted a translation up (should have been between quote codes, but...) and asked for your thoughts, I don't think that justifies labelling him as a "Pro-terrorist".




[edit on 20-7-2005 by MERC]

Originally posted by Souljah
OR maybe they were Targetting American Soldiers?

or maybe they DIDNT just target American soldiers? how about the targeting of mosques where there is no American soldiers near it eh? or maybe the recent target of the fuel tanker which nearly killed a hundred people, no Americans were nearby.

Originally posted by Lartsa Cleargleam

The fact that Souljah is being attacked (by moderators, no less) for either a) posting his opinion that he is entitled to on a conspiracy forum, and/or b) posting someone else's opinion that he finds interesting is really despicable.

If you don't agree with the message, state so and state why. Don't attack the messenger's credibility or person. It's a discussion board. Seriously, grow up.

Well said, Lartsa! (May I call you Lartsa?) I've gotta say I have a sore spot for moderators who don't follow the rules of their own board.

I remember reading somewhere outside of those sources you provided that the Army was in fact there to warn about potential suicide bombers. Were that the case, I'm not sure why they would gather a bunch of children around.

Thanks for posting this, Souljah. When I first read about this story, I was suspicious.

- Support for Iraq war is at all time low. Military recruitment is a disaster.
- US forces cardon off street because of a suspected (terrorist) car bomb
- US forces hand out candy, attracting children
- Residents ask about KIA but are told it was a 'false alarm'
- US forces keep fiddling with the car
- US forces dumped the remaining candy and drive away
- Seconds later, KIA explodes, children killed
- No US casualties or injuries
- US blames tragedy on 'insurgents'

Hmmm... it almost sounds like a set-up, doesn't it? Making people angry and gaining support for the war...

Does anyone here remember Vietnam? Anyone at all? Does this story REEK of the antics our military played in Vietnam? Hello?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

[qutoe]Thanks for posting this, Souljah. When I first read about this story, I was suspicious.

- US forces cardon off street because of a suspected (terrorist) car bomb

read my link at the top where it says an SUV is moving. cant cardon a street with a vehicle thats moving

[qutoe]- US forces hand out candy, attracting children[uote]
is that illegal?

- US forces keep fiddling with the car

cant fiddle with a car that is moving.

- No US casualties or injuries

thats BS, one American soldier killed and 3 others wounded.

- US blames tragedy on 'insurgents'

of course, the insurgents sent one of theirs to commit martyrdom on American soldiers and Muslim Iraqi children.

Originally posted by deltaboy
how about the targeting of mosques where there is no American soldiers near it eh?

Remember the 1985 Mosque Blast in Beirut, Lebanon?

This attack was against a Muslim Shia cleric, Sheikh Muhammad Husain Fadlallah - but instead they killed 50 People, most of the Women and Children.

The Attack was orchestrated by Isreali and American Intelligence Agencies.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The bomb went off outside a block of flats and close to a mosque as worshippers were gathering for Friday night prayers in a densely populated Shia Muslim suburb.

[edit on 20/7/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
This attack was against a Muslim Shia cleric, Sheikh Muhammad Husain Fadlallah - but instead they killed 50 People, most of the Women and Children.

The Attack was orchestrated by Isreali and American Intelligence Agencies.

Sheikh Fadlallah later accused Israel and its "internal allies" of being behind the explosion and he gave a warning to "all those who are playing with fire" that their hands will be "burned by the flames".

doesnt say crap, just his suggestion that Israel and "others" involved with attempted assasination on his life. im sure he made many enemies, and it aint just Israel and America. im not sure the CIA did it because they are banned from assasination by law thanks to Ford, and somthing i hate him for, and the CIA has gone soft and afraid of political consequences of assassinating anibody, even a terrorist who is enemy of America, also CIAs history of assasination before the banned is laughable since they couldnt assasinate Fidel Castro from 90 miles away.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Hmmm... it almost sounds like a set-up, doesn't it? Making people angry and gaining support for the war...

Does anyone here remember Vietnam? Anyone at all? Does this story REEK of the antics our military played in Vietnam? Hello?

I think that the Word "Vietnam" people in American are Trying Hard to Forget.

Especially trying to Forget all the Things they did back there in the "Jungle" to Payback to the VC for the Ambush "Last Night" and to Decrease morale and Popular Support of Civilian Population.

Originally posted by Souljah
I think that the Word "Vietnam" people in American are Trying Hard to Forget.

Yeah, I know... But you'd think we'd learn from our mistakes. By the way, probably one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this war IS Vietnam. The only thing my brother ever said to me about his experience there was. "I killed babies." That's it. No other words.

No one knows where my brother is. He hasn't spoken to any of his family for many, many years. Vietnam took him, even though he still lives, I think...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yeah, I know... But you'd think we'd learn from our mistakes. By the way, probably one of the reasons I'm so passionate about this war IS Vietnam. The only thing my brother ever said to me about his experience there was. "I killed babies." That's it. No other words.

No one knows where my brother is. He hasn't spoken to any of his family for many, many years. Vietnam took him, even though he still lives, I think...

Now thats a Scary Statement when said by Your Brother.

I hope your Brother is OK and Alive.

I know how War Changes People.

My Cousin was in Bosnia Fighting against the Serbs and when he came back I was kind of Scared of him - he like came to visit us in the middle of the night, totally drunk, and just wanted to talk about. And then he started to tell war stories - which were not pretty.

He was a totally different Man when he came back - and I havent seen him in a long time also...

I hope that he's Allright....

The fact that all the 'patriots' jumped on Souljah's back, labelled him, discredited him, insulted, abused etc etc shows that the US army COULD do these things and no one would question it anyway.

What if it was 100% true that it went down as Souljahs link explained? How would we ever know when we've been told the US version of events and moved on since?

Looking at the shear horror in even suggesting this event to fans of the US army shows a propagandist a really big cover to hide behind when influencing public opinion.

It's a strange time indeed when 'Terrorists' don't need logic or reason for their actions because they simply 'lust for blood' but when a perfectly good set of reasoning and/or accountability is placed on the US armies shoulders, it all of a sudden becomes an impossability with no reason needed.

During the election the number 1 tatic used was discrediting the opponent and making them look bad.

Now when it happens in a 'war zone' and a horrible event which serves the exact same puporse is performed - the only logic could possibly be that the 'terrorists' (who ever they may be), just 'lust for blood' and 'don't care who they kill'. Again, the 'terrorist' performed this act with no logic or reasoning simply because it's impossible for it to have occured for another reason in favour of war propaganda.

If NOTHING else, the US army should be SMART enough and RESPONSABLE enough to NOT gather children in a war zone.
Are you stupid enough to gather 40 children on a busy street? On a highway? In the seediest part of your city? let alone the most dangerous city in the world during a war???

The truth is always somewhere in the middle and we have two different stories altogether so regardless of WHO blew up and WHY, the thing we DO know is that it would not have happened if the US troops didn't gather the kids on the street, therefore they are ultimately responsable for what happens to the children.

This board is getting worse and worse everyday with people getting offended when confronted with a conspiracy within America and refusing to acknowledge it for that reason alone. I don't see how America can say they are the super power and using their military to secure that title globaly and yet still not be invovled in any conspiracies, even when the CIA and the Whitehouse have both said that Propaganda will be a tatic of theirs.

Well said, Lartsa! (May I call you Lartsa?) I've gotta say I have a sore spot for moderators who don't follow the rules of their own board.

As do I! Lartsa is okay by me. "LC" may be easier?

In any event, I think ShroudofMemphis hit the nail on the head with this:

If NOTHING else, the US army should be SMART enough and RESPONSABLE enough to NOT gather children in a war zone.

Candy is nice, but distribute it a different way if you really need to do so. It's kind of common sense.

Originally posted by Lartsa Cleargleam
Candy is nice, but distribute it a different way if you really need to do so. It's kind of common sense.

My Best Choice for Candy Distribution would be in a School, where Most of the Children are Located at the Same Time.

It would also show the Friendly Nature of US Troops - they visited Schools and gave the Kids some Candy...

But not in the middle of the street of the Most Dangerous City in the World....

... this thread from yesterday.. i am a little miffed for a few reasons:

1. I do agree that the story (for those with a background in strat studies,a good historical knowledge of war and realpolitik or actual counter-revolutionary experience in the forces/intel services) seems quite bizarre, as the motives for such an operation are difficllut to really square with even the nastiest cloakndagger acitivities, yet as someone pointed out.. it is not unknwon for such crazyness to be sanctioned by the US military (Vietnam, Latin America etc etc)... why can people not even entertain the idea that the Pentagon did something really underhand AND STUPID???? It can happen (even if this case may seem a little unlikely).

2. I have agreed with Souljah in the past on some general matters of politics... while sometimes the points are a little sensationalist.. i generally find SJs threads to be open to discussion and debate on the things raised... not just wild claims (which get a good airing here whoever they offend) so I find the way SJ has been attacked as some kind of anti-american as plain stupid. in ref to one thing someone said about SJ... how can visiting the US convince anyone one way or the other about US foreign policy???... I have never been to the US, and I dont think that if I did go the size of big macs (much bigger and better looking than here in Europe) would impress me into forgetting everything I have grown to dislike about US geoplitical behaviour... point being you can criticise US activities abroad without hating the US or having to go on some pilgramige to see what the US 'is really all about'.. stupid jingoism... ("Souljah.. you never even been to the US or if you have.. very breifly" or words to that effect)

3. Lack of critical perspective... if you find the allegations questionable (which I do, despite sharing SJs views on many topics) address the viability of sources.. look into the practical benefits of the perpertrators shuold the story be true.. apply some dialectical method if you have to... just dont 'assume' that it is wrong because you back team america all the way (hell yeah!) and don't want to admit the Socratic moral of life: we are clever if we realise the depths of our own ignorance...

okay.. rant over

as far as handing out the candy, there is nothing the insurgents won't bomb. they have bombed;

schools
police stations
funerals for people they killed
hospitals


posters are always framing conspiracy theories with the old logic of"who gains from the event"

well, does the us seem to be gaining here or the wonderful freedom fighters ?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
schools
police stations
funerals for people they killed
hospitals

Same Goes for the US Forces.

I have seen them Bomb:

- Weddings

- Hospitals

- Police Stations

- Schools

But apparently when they do it its called Collateral Damage and the Debate is Over.

And I thought this WAS a CONSPIRACY Site, not the US Army Offical Forum.

Difficult question to answer, and it is true that often there will be no seminatable gain, but it is still a valid opening for enquiry...