"Stealth" the movie & Autonomous UCAV's

Where is mis intel on this ??

I want to know (de classified of course) that exact complexity of the
kill chain (kill china.. joke) algorithm and if it has any source code"traps" to prevent "total autonomous decision making".. The first step towards AI sentience

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Where is mis intel on this ??

I want to know (de classified of course) that exact complexity of the
kill chain (kill china..

joke) algorithm and if it has any source code"traps" to prevent "total autonomous decision making".. The first step towards AI sentience

Hey Daedalus3,
First, the Kill chain is a doctrine, not a computer program. It is just a more efficient way of waging war -
the martial artist would call it "economy of motion",
the mathematician would refer it as the "shortest distant between two points",
the computer scientist may call it "multitasking",
the traveler might try to take a "shortcut"...
and so on.

The most sophisticated UCAV's being developed all have various security measures to keep it from being electronically hijacked, or rendered an adversary due to malfunction or it being "cracked". AI sentience however, is beyond being merely unlikely on a UCAV, at least at this time.

Perhaps IF and when biological computers start being used such precautions should be revisited. I recall hearing where the brain tissue of a mouse was used to actually control a DARPA F-22 flight sim. Something like that would be more likely to somehow gain awareness of self.

Stealth Trailers

Heres 3 stealth trailers...the 2nd and 3rd one you probably have seen but the first one isn't really a normal trailer, its over 3 minutes straight out of the movie. Its action packed.

This will be one movie i'll have to see.

Originally posted by intelgurl

Hey Daedalus3,
First, the Kill chain is a doctrine, not a computer program. It is just a more efficient way of waging war -
the martial artist would call it "economy of motion",
the mathematician would refer it as the "shortest distant between two points",
the computer scientist may call it "multitasking",
the traveler might try to take a "shortcut"...
and so on.

The most sophisticated UCAV's being developed all have various security measures to keep it from being electronically hijacked, or rendered an adversary due to malfunction or it being "cracked". AI sentience however, is beyond being merely unlikely on a UCAV, at least at this time.

Perhaps IF and when biological computers start being used such precautions should be revisited. I recall hearing where the brain tissue of a mouse was used to actually control a DARPA F-22 flight sim. Something like that would be more likely to somehow gain awareness of self.

Hmmm.. then I think I misunderstood the exact structure of "kill chain" nad maybe another explanation is in order??
I thought it was meant to remove "human latency" from recon-->process info-->strike cycle..

And yes I take comfort in the fact that the level of computerisation inculcated into even the most hi-tech equipment is still amoebic in terms of "sentience"


[edit on 28-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

73% of software in india is pirated.

according to un-offical esitmates china has a 90% rate but its un-offical

bink.nu...

the problem is with cost of the software. $190 US for a copy of microsoft. thats nearly one thousand chinese dollars

Originally posted by chinawhite
73% of software in india is pirated.

How exactly does this relate to the topic at hand??

i hate this movie. its so unreal. but the fight scene is awesome.

can computers really have a mind of its own?

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by chinawhite
73% of software in india is pirated.

How exactly does this relate to the topic at hand??

penalise me for excessive quoting again but I had to quote to context...


73%.. That sounds very "precise" to me
Now I predict SS will rant abt chinese piracy...

please if you dont believe me go check my source.

Originally posted by chinawhite
can computers really have a mind of its own?

Yes. The Brain is basically a very complex computer. We don't have enough computing power in the world to simulate an entire human brain...yet, but we have got started on trying to simulate part of a mammilian brain that all mammals share.

More info on the Blue Brain project is right here




[edit on 28-7-2005 by sardion2000]

I just read somewhere (I'll try to find the link) that Japan is getting ready to build a computer that is far superior to anything the US has and that it will be used to simulate some of the functions of the human brain as well as various earth simulations.


[edit on 7/28/2005 by bios]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Hmmm.. then I think I misunderstood the exact structure of "kill chain" nad maybe another explanation is in order??

I thought it was meant to remove "human latency" from recon-->process info-->strike cycle..

No, I think you understand the structure perfectly, I was merely trying to reduce the doctrine into the simplest of laymen's terms.

The "kill chain" is only the process through which information is gathered and the target is hit and assessment of the strike is made. It is sometimes referred to as F2T2EA or find, fix, track, target, engage and assess.

The doctrine of enhancing the "Kill Chain" has to do with minimizing the amount of time from the first element of the chain (find) to the last (assess). That includes reducing/removing human, physical, mechanical and digital latency which basically boils down to removing or simplifying any element of the process that slows the reaching of the goal.

That is the reason I used the following analogy:

the martial artist would call it "economy of motion",
the mathematician would refer it as the "shortest distant between two points",
the computer scientist may call it "multitasking",
the traveler might try to take a "shortcut"...
and so on.

I must give credit for that analogy to a prominent military/DARPA attendee at the "Sensor to Shooter Symposium" which I also attended on the 26th & 27th of July 2005 in DC.

The only thing I think I said that was in contrast to your initial statement was that the kill chain was not a computer program - it does however utilize a great amount of computer processing and networking to diseminate information quickly and efficiently.

Natalie~



[edit on 28-7-2005 by intelgurl]

Originally posted by jetsetter

The X-22, right? I never beat everything so I was not able to fly that aircraft but I believe it was pretty big.

i believe its called X-02, its performance is top notch, and its almost like combining the Su-37, with the F-22 stealth capabilities, to the forward swept S-37A fighterplane. u gotta have to get all S ranks in all the missions in Normal mode to able to get that fighter. the best way to do it is that wen u completed the game, save the game and keep the money and fighters for if u manage to keep the good planes like the F-22 and the Su 37, u be able to perform better in those harder missions to achieve S rank, the X-02 is pretty awesome plane to fly, pretty much can do everything in combination to air to air, and air to ground. should see how it launches it missiles.

hmmm.. Indeed.. I understand a bit now.. Nonetheless.. UCAV/UAV autonomy is the sezpool for this kind of "amoebic intelligence" i mentioned before...
..hmm.. interesting..

so you UCAV guys sure must get a kick outta watching this movie aye?? Not everyday you get to see amovie that is "oh so relevant" to what you do for a living now??!! .. enjoy..

Japan Plans World's Fastest Computer

TOKYO - Japan has plans to start building a supercomputer next year that can operate 73 times faster than the world's fastest supercomputer, the government said Monday.

The American Blue Gene/L system supercomputer developed by International Business Machine Corp. at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in Livermore, California, currently holds the title of the world's fastest. That machine is capable of 136.8 teraflops, or 136.8 trillion calculations per second, according to Japan's Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

Japan wants to develop a supercomputer that can operate at 10 petaflops, or 10 quadrillion calculations per second, which is 73 times faster than the Blue Gene, an official of the ministry said on condition of anonymity.

news.yahoo.com...


wow 73 times faster than the blue gene. thats a huge increase

china is developing a smaller one but still 8-9 times faster.

China goes for supercomputing crown

Not content with buying IBM's PC business, China Lenovo Group now wants to steal Big Blue supercomputer crown with plans to build a system nearly 10 times more powerful.

When completed, the Lenovo supercomputer will offer performance of 1,000 TFLOPS (trillion floating point operations per second), according to Jean Cai, a spokeswoman for Lenovo in Beijing. No specific date has been given for the completion of the project.

www.techworld.com...

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by chinawhite
can computers really have a mind of its own?

Yes. The Brain is basically a very complex computer. We don't have enough computing power in the world to simulate an entire human brain...yet, but we have got started on trying to simulate part of a mammilian brain that all mammals share.

I am sorry to say but that is mere speculation on your part, even thought a system can have the same no of simultaneous connections the human brain has developing an intelligence requires more than that, it is realizing its ability and to utilize it for its gain.
Intelligence is the computational part of the ability to achieve goals in the world. Varying kinds and degrees of intelligence occur in people, many animals and some machines.
Many researchers have said that AI is impossible and that too human intelligence! Godel being the most famous with his universal-truth example.
Also we have Turing's test that says that even though a computer might mimic human intelligence but it is not truly intelligent on its own right.
In the end only a biological self-learning system can attain intelligence and to achieve human intelligence would be another thing all together, it would be like trying to fast forward evolution from a nerve cell to a human brain!
But once it has achieved this level, then it would be very easy for it to fly planes or bake cakes, as all they need to do is "install" knowledge. That is when humans become obsolete if we don’t evolve mentally ourselves.

Here is a link to the basic questions about AI:
www-formal.stanford.edu...

is this stealth plane based on this

Northrop Grumman Switchblade

just saw the movie last night.
was really good. once u get past the lightning made the plane flip out its a realy good movie.

Originally posted by chinawhite
is this stealth plane based on this

Northrop Grumman Switchblade

no, its based on a fictional aircraft the X-02 from the game Ace Combat. in the game the fictional aircraft and fold the wings in wen moving faster and then unfold it wen movin slowers. its possible they made have copy the switchblade from the popular mechanics, but it doesnt say.

With regards to simulating a human brain, or literally fully simulating one, we are a LONG way off. To give you an example, scientists, after 25 years of research, succeeded not too long ago in simulating a few cells of the brain of a lobster.

TWENTY-FIVE years of research to simulate a few cells of a lobster brain. If given enough time, albeit a very long amount, humanity probably will succeed in simulating the human brain, but that is a long way off, and when done, will result in an actual conscious computer most likely. I mean, they did actually get robots walking bipedal, which was for a long time something only of science-fiction. Now they can walk, but they can fall down really easily too!

Well, they did simulate the cells of the lobster brain, so assuming a lobster brain has at least a few billion cells, well, you get the picture. The human brain, with its trillions of cells.....also, the human brain is a marvel of complexity, that can run some really complex mathematical algorithms and all that, obviously (since if you try to knock someone over, they will balance), well, I doubt in our lifetimes we will see computers simulating human brains.

BTW, Intelgurl, great posts (as always). Mouse tissue for a simulator, eh? So we humans are working on artificial parts for our bodies (like electronics to help with the brain), and things for the heart, etc...yet we used living tissue for our computers.

Weird to think we are designing computers for our bodies and utilizing living tissue for our computers.

BTW, speaking of that, that is another reason I doubt robots will ever "take over." As robotics technology advances more and more, people will start having artificial parts put in where necessary, to help with deficiencies. We humans will become more "robotic" and robots will become more human-like in the long run.

As for that movie "Stealth," I think anyone with a brain can tell that when they show a woman in a bathing suit in the ads for a fighter pilot/plane movie, that that is a signal to not take the movie seriously, but just as a popcorn flick.

The whole idea of the movie seems 100% PURE HOLLYWOOD to me.

"Hey Bob, let's make a good popcorn movie."

"Okay, what about?"

"Well, I figure we just put in a pretty girl, show her in a bathing suit, throw in fighter planes (with her flying one), throw in a robot plane that gets struck by lightening and becomes self-aware and tries to destroy the world, and wha-la!! In Top Gun, they threw in a pretty lady and fighter planes, and that movie made tons of $$$!"