India plans to deploy it's own missile shield

Hmm i doubt India has the tech to make SDI programmed like U.S or even Russia.I wonder what China has to say.DO you think China would be able to build it own SDI beore and better Than India?.

www.indiadaily.com...

This news was also posted at times of India but i cannot find the link.May be stealth spy can.


[edit on 6-7-2005 by warthog911]

the indian missile defence is certainly going to be limited to the pakistani border or even possibily the chinese border. its not going to stop 1,000 SRBM or MRBM..

china already has a very capable anti-missile anti-aircraft defence on the coast


China's Multi-level Air Defense Network
www.newsmax.com...

Citing an announcement by defense officials at a press conference, India’s The Statesman reports that India could establish an air and missile defense shield for a 200 square kilometer area within five or six years, quoting defense scientists said. Such a system could reportedly be duplicated to protect “big cities and strategic facilities like nuclear reactors and space launching sites against incoming missiles.” The interceptor is said to be a surface-to-air missile with a range of 80-85 km, and another interceptor with a range of about 20 km. The Akash SAM is mentioned as a possible interceptor for such a system; “Meanwhile, the Akash will have some anti-missile system capabilities.”

As for the radars for such a system, Mr M. Natarajan, DRDO chief and scientific advisor to the defense minister, said they might include a phased-array radar placed on an executive jet, such as the Brazilian Embrear. India has already purchased from Israel the Phalcon aircraft-mounted radar system

link

India not impressed with the PAC-3 that it was offered

India is not impressed with the PAC-3 missile unit offered with the two-tier US anti-missile defence system, on the grounds that it is slow for the very low reaction period in the sub-continent, and therefore, the Pentagon will demonstrate more advanced technologies when defence minister Pranab Mukherjee visits the country.

Besides more advanced units than PAC-3, the US is offering mid-air jamming systems

link


India to outpace the rest of Asia in development and deployment of missiles and missile shields

India plans to outpace Asia and may be rest of the world in missile research and missile shield development and deployment. According to media sources in India, India will invest about Rs. 12,000 crore in the next eight years to produce world-class missiles. According to Prahlada, Director, Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), besides this investment, which will go to industry, another Rs. 1000, crore will be spent on maintaining the missiles and upgrading their technology.

India’s strategic interest is in having a defense alliance with United States to protect India with a missile defense umbrella or shield. The strategic missile defense is considered by Indian defense establishments are most critical. The recent US-India ten-year defense alliance will help India to achieve its goal. India and the United States will sign an Overall Umbrella agreement on Science and Technology during the forthcoming US visit of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. This will further enhance the possibilities of achieving the Indian goals.

link

India rules out accepting US missile defence system

India on Tuesday ruled out accepting a missile defence system from the United States.
"There is no question of accepting (a) missile shield from anyone," Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told a news conference in reply to a question.

"What we are interested in is developing our own missile programme and we are doing that."

The United States said last June that it was willing to talk to India about supplying missile defence systems.

"We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So it is not something that India will enter into lightly," US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, had told reporters on a visit to New Delhi.

India and the United States last week signed a groundbreaking 10-year plan for military cooperation during a visit to Washington by Mukherjee.

India, a Cold War ally of the Soviet Union, has recently moved closer to the United States.

link


India pursuing manipulation of ionosphere to fry electronics of incoming warheads

India’s Missile experts realized very well that Ballistic missiles are useless since most countries can manipulate the ionosphere to destroy the missile.........focused on frying all the electronics of any incoming ballistic missile that leave the earth’s atmosphere and then reenter the same on the other side of the world.........use electromagnetic waves, laser and low frequency arrays to create billions of watts on of energy in the ionosphere to fry all the electronics of an incoming missile.

link

India's Phalcon system to “Neutralize” Pakistani Missiles

Israel’s Phalcon system, previously sold to India, is capable of “neutralizing” Pakistan’s Shaheen II ballisic missile, according to a news report, which came just after Pakistan’s test of the Shaheen II on March 16.

link

US mum on THAAD

There was no word on whether the Israeli-American Arrow THAAD missile defense system, which India has previously sought, would also be approved, though Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee did express India's position that all technology restrictions should be dropped.

link

All that the US said on the request for the THAAD

We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So, it is not something that India will enter into lightly," visiting US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, told reporters.

link

The US had offered its PAC-3, Israel its Arrow-2 and Russia its latest S-300 to India, but India was unsatisfied with all of these. India asked the US for the THAAD, but it appears that the US have politely said "no", leaving India the task of developing its own systems to suit its rapid reaction needs.
BTW : All these developments have alredy been covered in my other thread :
US offers Patriot(PAC-3) missiles to India Go check it out right away.

Originally posted by chinawhite
the indian missile defence is certainly going to be limited to the pakistani border or even possibily the chinese border. its not going to stop 1,000 SRBM or MRBM..

china already has a very capable anti-missile anti-aircraft defence on the coast

Nobody can stop 1000 MRBMs/SRBMs.. Not even your chinese anti-missile network..

And from the link you gave it seems that the chinese do have an extensive missile defensive network, probably better than the one India has currently, but the article mentions only in concept the development of a ABM system..

So china's working on it.. like India; and it has the disadvantage of not being able to acquire foreign tech..

So as of now India and China are on the same level with ABMs.. the 1st step really..

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

and yes as of now, China's air defences are certainly better than India's.

I honestly think that our current defence minister is a third rate id**t. The guy knows nothing. He is a senseless and shameless high-headed twit who cant even speak fluent English without mixing it with is disgusting bengali acsent.

Instead of blindly taking the US's offer of PAC-3's or Israel's offer of Arrow-2's or the latest Russian S-300's the guy blindly announces that India will build its own defence shield. Heck even the European MBDA has offered its Aster-14 now.

Hell when will someone come and offer you these state of the art stuff ??

And time is critical. Our western islamic jehadi neighbour (Pakistan) is constantly threatening to nuke India.

The least that could be done was to purchase around 20-30 batteries of PAC-3's or Arrow-2's atleast as a stop gap arrangement.

It will take atleast 10 years to develop such systems from scratch.(for DRDO you can add 10 more) The situation is such that a war can happen any day and preparedness is critical to say the least.

This government is insane to say the least. A puppet of a PM, a comedian of a Railway minister and the Defence minister is beyond description.

Agraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

Well the current government IMHO is better equipped to deal with defence matters with a more "open" mind as compared to the prev one..

But the statements made herewith were just to pacify the left..
Also one must consider that "buying" NMD tech as of now would be perceived by Pakistan as a escalation in the ongoing pseudo nuke arms race..

As long as Pakistan is in stable hands (like now) and peace initiatives are progressing, its not advisable to get all trigger happy and buy NMD tech..
Pakistan cannot and WILL not nuke India unless they're FORCED to do so..
e.g: horribly losing a conventional war with India etc..

Again I'm not saying that India should NEVER look towards NMD...Its a necessity of course with soo many nuclear neighbours.. but as of NOW there are better things to spend defence money on..While we can develop our own system on the side..

Musharaf has survived 3 close shaves with assasination attempts in the previous months. Pakistan is one assasination away from collapse (as the CIA predicted). After Mush is a corpse, there is a great possiblity that the overwhelming jehadi elements get control of Pakistan's stolen and copied nukes and use it as per thier whim and fancy.

Moreover, Pakistani terrorists attacked Ayodhya yesterday. What is a December 13 type of incident happens again ?..there is every possibility. India will be compelled to wage war on Pakistan then. And India have IMO stupidly adopted a policy of "No first use of nukes". In the event of a war, Pakistan is well aware that it is no match for India in a conventional war and will be compelled to use its stolen+copied nukes. With no BMD, we'll be history. India's modified Pechora-2's & Akash SAM's only have limited anti-ballistic missile capability.

If someone wants to have a "No first use of nukes" policy then they better have a credible ballistic missile defence in the first place.

And DRDO developing an indegenous shield is welcome, but that might take atleast 10 years (an over optimistic figure). IMO it would be better if we take those state of the art systems on offer atleast as a stop gap arrangement. It would be foolish to have no anti-ballistic missile systems for 10+ years waiting for the difidence inspiring & reservation quota ridden DRDO to produce something. It would also negate India's unmatched conventional prowess against our jehadi west as India would never be able to go to war against Pakistan without being assured of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).

The way i see it, a credible anti-ballistic missle system at the earliest must bear the highest and upmost importance. Weather its indegenous or imported is secondary; its effectiveness is primary. And that too when its easily available after years of sanctions, rejecting it IMO is nothing short of a perfect example of having to have ones brain examined.

Someone should put a grenade into that Pranab's ### and blow it up.

'Akash', the country's surface-to-air missile was test fired from a mobile launcher from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur, about 15 km from Balasore today (Jun 17, 2005), Defence sources said.

The multi-target missile with a range of 25 km was test fired at 1430 hrs (IST).The missile hit a para-barrel target showing its consistency, the sources said.

The missile had better features than its US counterpart 'Patriot' and can be launched from a battle tank, the sources said.

It has thrust during its entire flight and the propulsion will work till it hits the target, they said.

The 5.6 m long sleek missile has a launch weight of 700 kg and can carry 60 kg of warhead and the radar is capable of tracking 64 targets and guide upto 12 missiles simultaneously.

The Army and Air Force, which would be deploying the missile, wanted it to demonstrate consistency during the entire flight for which the trial was conducted, the sources said.

The sophisticated missile, which uses an integral ramjet rocket propulsion system and has low reaction time, operates in conjunction with indigenously built rajendra surveillance and engagement radar developed by Electronic Research and Development Establishment (ERDE), Hyderabad.

'Akash' is part of India's Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) developed by the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO).

link

Akash test 2

Akash test 3

Akash final test; Development complete;ready to be inducted into armed forces

HYDERABAD: The development phase of the multi-target Akash surface-to-air missile was completed today when it successfully intercepted a flying target at long range. The missile was now ready for induction into the Army and the Air Force.

"We have finished all demonstrations and all design parameters are frozen," Prahalada, director, Defence Research and Development Laboratory and Chairman of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP), told The Hindu over telephone. Describing it as "Indian Patriot", he said it would be cheaper and as effective as the Patriot missile of the USA. He said that everything worked with clockwork precision as the final and 46th Akash Flight Trial was demonstrated to the personnel of the three defence forces at Balasore in Orissa.

The successful demonstration would enable the Army and Air Force to firm up the plans for induction. "We will wait for them to place an order," he added. The city-based Bharat Dynamics Limited would produce the missile after getting the orders. The Akash weapon system has a multi-directional and multi-target area defence capability and can simultaneously engage several air targets in a fully autonomous mode of operation. It has a range of about 25 km and carries a 55 kg fragmentation warhead triggered by proximity fuse. It uses the state-of-the-art integral ram jet rocket propulsion system and the multifunction phased array radar tracks the targets and guides the missiles towards them.

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Here is a counter view to my arguments, but i dont subscribe to it.

www.indianexpress.com...

I don’t understand this missile shield business, how are you guys going to set up a credible missile shield if your country has such uneven terrain and is so geographically unfavorable?
The US has ocean on both sides and controls the whole continent of north America so it is easier to set up active warning and defensive network effectively but in India’s case you are smack in the middle of Asia with two neighbors that have hostile intent towards you, heck if you nuke Islamabad you can rattle Delhi! You guys are so close how can you effectively - detect+track+lauch+neutalize when your border with Pakistan is barely 500kms from the Delhi?
I don’t think it is possible, in anycase if Pakistan nukes you guys you will have to take a hit, your best bet is to take it somewhere where its effect will be minimal.
Also you India doesn’t have the money to develop such a project, how will you get the money?
China are lucky in a way that they have the massive Himalayan range to protect them from any Indian missile but their Air-defense network is mostly for aircraft and no network can be used effectively for both aircraft and missiles, it wouldn't be good at either aircraft or missiles in the end!
I think India or China' s best bet is to maintain strong relations with each other and go beyond petty squabbles, but since you are both so culturally different I think it will be very hard to achieve. The Chinese wanting more to garner respect through intimidation and India’s attempt to gain greater popularity, it will be very difficult for both China and India to develop strong relations.

Well India have the sufficient early warning system, but need interceptors :

India has alredy bought the Green Pine radar form Israel :


The Elta Green Pine early warning and fire control radar for the Arrow system can detect targets at ranges up to about 500km and is able to track targets at speeds over 3,000m/s. The radar illuminates the target and guides the interceptor missile to within 4m of the target.

The Arrow Weapon System features a state-of-the-art EL/M2080 L-band radar, Green Pine, based on the decades of experience in developing technological solutions for early warning and fire control defense systems.
The Elta Electronic Industries subsidiary of IAI Electronic Group developed the Green Pine early warning and fire control radar for the Arrow system. The radar carries the designation EL/M-2090 and includes the trailer mounted radar and antenna array, the power generator, a cooling system and a radar control centre.

Green Pine is an electronically scanned, solid state, phased array radar operating at L-band in the range 500MHz to 1,000MHz, and was developed from the Elta Music phased array radar. The radar operates in search, detection, tracking and missile guidance modes simultaneously.

The radar has the following features:

Phased array L-band radar
Dual mode operation - early warning and fire control
Long range acquisition capability - several hundred kilometers
Simultaneous tracking of dozens of Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBM)
Clear discrimination between TBMs, aircraft and other missiles
ECCM capability
Transportability

India has placed an order for the supply of two Elta Green Pine for use with India's air defence system against ballistic missiles. The first was delivered in 2001. The Green Pine Radar system is already deployed in India. The radar system, developed for Israel's Arrow anti-missile missile, is a transportable ground-based multimode solid-state phased array radar, capable of predicting impact points of incoming tactical ballistic missiles.

The Green Pine radar's strategic value along the Indian-Pakistani border is reportedly inestimable. "It covers all of Pakistan's military command centers and bases between Islamabad, the capital, and the Indian frontier. The system reportedly provides India with surveillance of Pakistan's nuclear centers and missile sites.

link

And India's 6 PHALCON systems which they will recieve in 2007 from Israel (read US tech) is said to have the ability to detect a golf ball in any part of Pakistani airspace and its range extends well into Afghastan too.

China are lucky in a way that they have the massive Himalayan range to protect them from any Indian missile

What makes you think the vice-versa is not possible too. Its a common border.

And the terrain on the ground has no effect whatsoever on the effectiveness of the missile. It moves in the air, not on the ground.


[edit on 6-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

China are lucky in a way that they have the massive Himalayan range to protect them from any Indian missile

What makes you think the vice-versa is not possible too. Its a common border.

And the terrain on the ground has no effect whatsoever on the effectiveness of the missile. It moves in the air, not on the ground.

Really? Air you say, hmm...
No what I mean is that since China has a very sparsly populated western front and also most of Chinas assets are along its Easter Coast, it would give more time to respond to any attack on targets of high value in china located on their eastern coast . Also another fact that you have over looked is that the Chinese can bring their batteries right up to Tibet(better roads and stuff!) and launch them from their, cruise missiles and stuff, so they skim past the valleys and dodge mountains, it is very difficult to have radar 'observability' in those kind of regions especialy with regard to crusie missiles and low flying aircraft.
While the Chinese have control of the higher Tibetian Plateu they can effectively monitor indian missiles more effectively especially if they are sent throught/ over(Air you say..) the himalayan mountains. Also the Himalayan mountains are not your regular mountains, they are in the tens of thousands of feet atleast so settign up radar station in these places is very difficult!
I have here a pic that you StealthSpy might find interesting:

This an actual Indian Radar station facing China near a town called Nainital which looks very much like an early Russian multi-phase radar.
The fact that India can set these up only near populated towns and that too very far from the chinese border shows the difficulties in settign up effective radar observability along a formidable range on mountains like the himalaya.

could the US penetrate China or Indias Defence system along its coast

What's to penetrate? A couple of hundred tomahawks and HARM missiles and some B-2 will take care of that defense network pretty quick. Also to stealth spy your radar would be scheming I’m Here! To all the anti radar missiles in the area.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Nobody can stop 1000 MRBMs/SRBMs.. Not even your chinese anti-missile network..


[edit on 6-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

thats what i said limited. not even america or in fact any country

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

China are lucky in a way that they have the massive Himalayan range to protect them from any Indian missile

What makes you think the vice-versa is not possible too. Its a common border.

And the terrain on the ground has no effect whatsoever on the effectiveness of the missile. It moves in the air, not on the ground.

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

yeah china does kinda of a advantage... on the chinese side is nearly flat land and over 4000m high. easy to track incoming missiles..

the indian side is facing a (upto) 8km wall and if the chinese launched a missile it would be very close to indias population sites

Originally posted by WestPoint23
What's to penetrate? A couple of hundred tomahawks and HARM missiles and some B-2 will take care of that defense network pretty quick. Here! To all the

chinas anti-air and anti-missile are all on mobile launchers/or hidden launchers and the radars for these things are also moblie/or not. china has under fixed communications in underground bases..

were no talking about iraqi SA-2 or SA-3 these a russian S-300PMU, Tor-M1, HQ-61A, FT-2000/HQ-9

Originally posted by IAF101
No what I mean is that since China has a very sparsly populated western front and also most of Chinas assets are along its Easter Coast, it would give more time to respond to any attack on targets of high value in china located on their eastern coast.

Yes that's true, but there are populated centres there too.(eg : Lhasa)

Also another fact that you have over looked is that the Chinese can bring their batteries right up to Tibet(better roads and stuff!) and launch them from their, cruise missiles and stuff, so they skim past the valleys and dodge mountains, it is very difficult to have radar 'observability' in those kind of regions especialy with regard to crusie missiles and low flying aircraft.

There are several radar ststions that have been set up on the himalayas on the Indian side at points that are much higher than the plateau of tibet.
Besides our satellites are constantly looking at that area.

While the Chinese have control of the higher Tibetian Plateu they can effectively monitor indian missiles more effectively especially if they are sent throught/ over(Air you say..) the himalayan mountains. Also the Himalayan mountains are not your regular mountains, they are in the tens of thousands of feet atleast so settign up radar station in these places is very difficult!

Very difficult..true but radar installations have been set up there quiet a while back. And from here it is India that overlooks the tibetian plateau. There are several missile sites here as well.

The himalayan ranges are much higher than the tibetian plateau and it is India that overlook China from here.

The fact that India can set these up only near populated towns and that too very far from the chinese border shows the difficulties in settign up effective radar observability along a formidable range on mountains like the himalaya.

Just because there a radar site in Nainital dose'nt mean that there are no ones in more scarsely populated ranges. Several radar sites have been set up in the 80's itself.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Very difficult..true but radar installations have been set up there quiet a while back. And from here it is India that overlooks the tibetian plateau. There are several missile sites here as well.

The himalayan ranges are much higher than the tibetian plateau and it is India that overlook China from here.

there is a country called nepal right in the middle of india and china. face it stealthspy chinas radars are higher.

practically everything over 4000m is snow.

how is it going to be supplied over 4000m? helicopter??

please can you provide sources for these radar sites

First of all missiles dont skim the ground surface.
Radar stations monitor the sky.

And satellites get a birds eye view of everthing

Nepal is a barrier for both India and China equally. The tibetian plateau is flat; the indian side is full of valley's and mountain's and the mountains are higher than the tibetian plateau .

And there are other parts where there is no border with Nepal.

India's copters are modified for high altitude flight. Infact India had ste the world record for the highest helicopter landing a few monts back. even 8500+m is reachable with the modified Dhruv. and 7000+with the Cheetak.

An Indian Air Force Cheetal helicopter today made the world's highest landing at a density altitude of 7621 meters on Sasser Kangri massif in Eastern Ladakh setting a new world record.

The IAF's helicopter pilots routinely fly missions at heights of up to 21,000 feet to ferry supplies and to evacuate casualties from the Siachen glacier.

"The combination of a light airframe and a more powerful engine has resulted in a more capable machine, permitting a higher payload - a critical requirement when operating at the extreme altitudes of the glacier where every gram matters," the spokesman said.

www.onlypunjab.com...

The Dhruv made a 9000 m landing to rescue mountain climbers and i had posted that on ATS..i am looking for that link now.




The Eurocopter just scaled the everest a few weeks back and i started a thread on that : urocopter lands on Mt. Everest