NEWS: Federal Documents Are Increasingly Classified

The Information Security Oversight Office has issued its latest annual report - and it says that the number of documents being classified has jumped to about 15.6 million, or 10%. The increase in classification is being attributed to the War in Iraq and Afghanistan. The declassification of government documents continued to decrease, 34% from the previous year.



I know this is almost a knee jerk reaction to these new statistics, but I'm so not surprised. With the recent media blitzing on the discrepancies with the Bush Administrations public statemens and the CIA intelligence reports, who thinks they are going to actually release information rather than throw it all into a paper shreder, er, the archives with a 'Don't Read Me' label?

You know, it's a great double standard....the government in almost all of its incarnations will jump all over you crying it's bloody head off but are going to go out of there way to keep the public as uninformed as possible.......I wonder if people would have made other choices if they had known now what they don't know now but could have......

You know, it's a great double standard....the government in almost all of its incarnations will jump all over you crying it's bloody head off but are going to go out of there way to keep the public as uninformed as possible.......

I think that is putting it in rather harsh terms and is untrue. The government is not classifying the material to keep it from the eyes of every American.

It is done to protect plans for propsed military operations that are in the planning statges and also to hide who is being watched, i.e., suspected terrorists. Hell no one wants them to know we are watching them if we told them what was going on or what might happen, we would loose the element of surprise.

In Addition, anytime a conflict starts classified material goes up perhaps ten fold if not more, that is the nature of war.

It goes back to that whole trading liberty for sercurity thingy.........if it's acceptable for people we will never meet to decide what we can and can't know, then we will also be unaware of the parameters by which they base their decisions.....and we have seen recently that the parameters by which decisions are made have been very wide......

I get that in times of conflict, certain military aspects need to be classified.....no problem, no brainer.....but I think the more important aspect of this report is also the rate of declassification......34% is a huge amount and I seriously doubt that all of it is military......we have intel, legal, science, and probably some black-ops in there on the domestic population.........

I'm just suspicious of when the government tells me they have it taken care of and then hide even more.........

[edit on 3-7-2005 by MemoryShock]

I get that in times of conflict, certain military aspects need to be classified.....no problem, no brainer.....but I think the more important aspect of this report is also the rate of declassification......34% is a huge amount and I seriously doubt that all of it is military......we have intel, legal, science, and probably some black-ops in there on the domestic population.........

The Post is just over reacting because they can not get their hands on more stories. I would not be supprised to learn the figure is higher, based on my militray experience and that was over 40 years ago.

Stop and think about it for one minute each military aircraft has classified data on board when flying and that would just be codes. Next you have the eupment, each plane more then likely has at least one piece of equipment that is classifed, some more then one piece. Each of those pieces of equipment have classified manuals, those are just the ones I can think of in an instant.

Then you have planned military missions each of them might have from one to 100 classified support documents for different phases, that list could go on and on. Again just a few examples I can think of again keep in mind I am talking 40 years ago. In this modern era it would not surprise me at all to learn that at least 60% of the military alone is classified. Frankly I am being conservative here it would not surprise me one bit if it was higher.

I'm just suspicious of when the government tells me they have it taken care of and then hide even more.........

You sound paranoid to me and no offense was meant by my saying that mind you. It all comes down to "on the need to know basis" and the general public does not need to know it is as simple as that.

If they told us all they suspected, human nature would have people running around like chicken little yelling the sky is falling which in turn would cause panic. Which we all know no one wants to see, especially the government.

[edit on 7/3/2005 by shots]

www.atsnn.com...

This is a story I did a while ago about changes to the FOIA and the reponse some had to the increased opacity of government. There's some really good information if you navigate around the links.

They continue to deny requests as a matter of course, on orders from above, without any sort of justification other than the blanket of 'National Security', and of course to perpetuate the divide between citizens and their elected officials.

'We the people' became 'Us' and 'Them' because Democracy is nothing less than mob rule, and the elite couldn't countenance that. The more they meddle, the larger the curtain necessary to shield their activities from scrutiny. They're obviously meddling quite a bit because the curtain is freakin' enormous currently.

When a magician waves his right hand, he's probably palming something with his left. When a magician starts wars, blows stuff up, creates hundreds of calculated scandals and nationally televised misdirections, you can be damn sure he's pulling a pretty big trick off while you're eyes glaze over from the sheer spectacle of the deception.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
The more they meddle, the larger the curtain necessary to shield their activities from scrutiny. They're obviously meddling quite a bit because the curtain is freakin' enormous currently.

Uh huh. It is.

When a magician waves his right hand, he's probably palming something with his left. When a magician starts wars, blows stuff up, creates hundreds of calculated scandals and nationally televised misdirections, you can be damn sure he's pulling a pretty big trick off while you're eyes glaze over from the sheer spectacle of the deception.

And all the deceptions are coming to ahead IMO. Hence the smoke and mirrors spectacle.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
www.atsnn.com...

And that was yet another media source complaining. Why because they were looking for info on stories.

They continue to deny requests as a matter of course, on orders from above, without any sort of justification other than the blanket of 'National Security', and of course to perpetuate the divide between citizens and their elected officials.

It is not so much denying requests, it all boils down to "need to know" and the majority do not need to know each and every little bit of intel collected especially the media.


Nor do we need to know what missions are planned, what new secret equipment is being designed, tested, etc.

National security DOES depend on public trust, moreso than inteligence, technology, or military might. An informed citizenry is the key to a democratic government, and a truly democratic government is a thing so beautiful, people will fight and die to protect it. Trust in public officials has been in a tail-spin since the JFK assassination. People distrust the government because it appears to have a greater interest in protecting its own interests when it is supposed to be protecting the interests of the people.

That's the heart of the argument. Without public trust, there is no security. Government corruption is a lot like adultery, the truth is often less important than avoiding the appearance of imporpriety. What's actually going on is of secondary importance to what appears to be going on.

Trust is the prime factor in any relationship.

Originally posted by shots
it all boils down to "need to know" and the majority do not need to know each and every little bit of intel collected especially the media.


Nor do we need to know ...what new secret equipment is being designed, tested, etc.

IMO - we do. It's part of being a responsible citizen.

I'm especially interested in nano-technology, and weapons that meld bio-nano bits together.

BTW - ever hear about the syphylis experiments on black men - or the cadmium dispersal tests???

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BTW - ever hear about the syphylis experiments on black men - or the cadmium dispersal tests???

Or the ongoing involuntary sterilization of 'undersirables?' Or the connections between industrial waste products and disease epidemics?

Bottom line, our lives are being mucked about with, that makes it our business.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne


That's the heart of the argument. Without public trust, there is no security. Government corruption is a lot like adultery, the truth is often less important than avoiding the appearance of imporpriety. What's actually going on is of secondary importance to what appears to be going on.

Trust is the prime factor in any relationship.

Yes I agree trust is a prime factor but the crux of the whole thing is need to know.

How would you like it if heaven forbid someone killed you or a member of your family and the DA shot his mouth off at a press conference that ruined the case?

I know what I would be doing I would be asking for his head so would my family and yours.

The Kennedy assination is a very good example of on a need to know basis. Since there is no statue of limitations on murder for all anyone knows they may have some information that someday might lead to the true killer. Would you want that info made public? I know I wouldn't, at least not until someone is convicted.

Was there a cover up? Perhaps; perhaps not, no one really knows. Again it all boils down to a need to know basis and obvioulsy for one reason or another they do not think we need to know.

One of my history prof's was an analyst for the CIA during the cold war. One of the few things that he mentioned was that alot of stuff gets stamped 'Top Secret" not so much as for what it is, but rather to protect the source of the information. The source is the key.

Originally posted by soficrow


IMO - we do. It's part of being a responsible citizen.

I agree but only to a point, we do not need to know each and every little detail.

I'm especially interested in nano-technology, and weapons that meld bio-nano bits together.

Why are you planing on making some atomic device or something or do you want to create some subhuman creatures? Edit to add just to make it clear I know very little if anything about Nanotechnology I am just guessing what it does or entails.

BTW - ever hear about the syphylis experiments on black men - or the cadmium dispersal tests???

Sure I have. I have also read about the recent tests on humans with pesticides and I agree that is wrong in both cases. But you have to realize some of those tests were voluntary.



[edit on 7/3/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by FredT
One of my history prof's was an analyst for the CIA during the cold war. One of the few things that he mentioned was that alot of stuff gets stamped 'Top Secret" not so much as for what it is, but rather to protect the source of the information. The source is the key.

Very good point Fred. I had forgotten about that part.

Originally posted by shots
You sound paranoid to me and no offense was meant by my saying that mind you.

No offense taken. I am paranoid, and with good reason. Despite my own personal reasons, which shall remain in my personal life(or 'classified'), I see a trend regarding the political and educational structure of our nation. The government has recently endured scandal after scandal regarding war and torture and human rights. And this is what it boils down to.......

The issues Americans have with the government is based on potential misrepresentations of classified materials. So who's to say if there do in fact exist misrepresentatioons when the guise of classification for National Security gets cited?

Month after month we encounter another consequence of what has gone on in our name, the least of which appears to be a waning of American public support around the globe......and we are only made aware of the consequences. All of the details about the progression to said consequence is 'classified' or tidily swept under the rug and as such accountability can be either post-poned ad nauseam or conveniently directed else where.......the days of democracy are over when the public isn't informed to it's fullest.....

And the public isn't informed to half that. Most of these documents are drawn up in legalese and technical terms that require a seperate dictionary for the average American to understand. Which is where I can insert an arguement that if you're not willing to pursue knowledge on your own , then you don't need it......but that should be made the point. Wyrde One was very correct when he pointed out the "Us" and "Them" duality existant in our reality.......

Originally posted by MemoryShock

I am paranoid, and with good reason. Despite my own personal reasons, which shall remain in my personal life(or 'classified'), I see a trend regarding the political and educational structure of our nation.

I think the reason for that way of thinking is the generation gap. From my perspective I look at it from the old school way of thinking when "loose lips" ships meant something.

You can not have it both ways ya know. You want the government to spill the beans yet do not want to give no reason for your being quiet makes no sense at all. Isn't that being kind of hypocritial? Again No offense meant.....

You can not have it both ways ya know. You want the government to spill the beans yet do not want to give no reason for your being quiet makes no sense at all. Isn't that being kind of hypocritial? Again No offense meant.....

I'm not going into my reasons for reasons of subjectivity.......the statements I could make are not provable on a message board.......not really hypocritical as I made the statement as satirical........if you want to know.......u2u me. If you want the general idea, look at my mini-profile on ATS proper.........

As for the 'loose lips sink ships' attitude.......there is relevance there but the open door for abuse is being used and abused...........besides, what can a terrorist do with the plans to a B-2 bomber.....build one?

Originally posted by MemoryShock


I'm not going into my reasons for reasons of subjectivity.......the statements I could make are not provable on a message board.......not really hypocritical as I made the statement as satirical........if you want to know.......u2u me. If you want the general idea, look at my mini-profile on ATS proper.........

The age differance alone explains alot if your profile is correct. No need to 2u2 at all. If you feel it is not right to post it fine with me.

As for the 'loose lips sink ships' attitude.......there is relevance there but the open door for abuse is being used and abused...........besides, what can a terrorist do with the plans to a B-2 bomber.....build one?

No they could not build one but other countries could and in turn sell them to terrorist. Just speculating here mind you. Keep in mind what Russia did with the B-29 years ago in WWII.

Originally posted by shots
No they could not build one but other countries could and in turn sell them to terrorist. Just speculating here mind you. Keep in mind what Russia did with the B-29 years ago in WWII.

Imo, the difference here is that Russia is a soveriegn nation unto itself and had its own military program........terrorists are a bit different. Also, stealing the plans to one of our planes just to make one and sell it to an independent is highly unlikely...........but this is a hypothetical.........doesn't really address the potential and probability for abuse of classification.......and recent events suggest the strong probability for a motive beyond military......

Here ya on the generation gap point........

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by soficrow

I'm especially interested in nano-technology, and weapons that meld bio-nano bits together.

Why are you planing on making some atomic device or something or do you want to create some subhuman creatures? Edit to add just to make it clear I know very little if anything about Nanotechnology I am just guessing what it does or entails.

BTW - ever hear about the syphylis experiments on black men - or the cadmium dispersal tests???

Shots - nanotechnology melded to bio-technology makes the syphylis (sp?) and cadmium dispersal experiments look like a children's game. We'll never know what's hitting us - kinda the nuclear version of bioweapons.

Also FYI - the "participants" in the syphylis (sp?) and cadmium dispersal experiments were NOT volunteers - no one was given ANY opportunity for "informed consent" - and the only reason we know about these human experiments is because of the FOIA.


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