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Groom Lake- Here's the Truth!

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posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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I have been researching the history of the Groom Lake facility for more than 20 years. My sources have included:

Books (you have to be careful with this one, many contain erroneous information)

Articles (an even more risky source of information, but occasionally provides a few tidbits)

Internet (separating the wheat from the chaff is a Herculean effort, but there are some surprisingly good nuggets to be found)

Photos and satellite images (aircraft and facilities, many pictures never before seen outside of program circles, good source for chronology of base facilities development)

Documents (thousands of pages of material from unclassified to declassified formerly Top Secret, including material on programs, accidents, personnel, and facilities. I have over 200 pages of Area 51 Standard Operating Procedures alone!)

Artifacts (program/unit patches, coffee mugs, pins, challenge coins, plaques, aircraft parts, aircraft models, and an original Area 51 Security Force badge.)

Interviews (oral history interviews with key personnel from the facility: test pilots, engineers, crew chiefs, loadmasters, air traffic controllers, security personnel, and base commanders)


From these sources, I piece together the puzzle. Technically, all of this information is unclassified, but it can be assembled in such a way as to reveal more than "they" want you to know. Security personnel call this the "mosaic theory" of intelligence.




posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Great article ghost! The ATS team never ceases to amaze me! keep up the good work, and I look forward to the next research posting.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Okay, I believe you. But, how did Area 51 gain the UFO Rumors anyway? Roswell, it's kind of obvious, but I've never heard anyone trying to disprove the event which happaned to make Area 51 the new "UFO Search zone".



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Vinci
Okay, I believe you. But, how did Area 51 gain the UFO Rumors anyway? Roswell, it's kind of obvious, but I've never heard anyone trying to disprove the event which happaned to make Area 51 the new "UFO Search zone".


First off, I usually call the facility Groom Lake to avoid the UFO fanatics who are looking for proof of ET. I don't deal with the ET/Alien Stories, I try to stick to the facts.

Well, the answer to that is more basic then you might think! First of all, Groom Lake is technically not a military base, in the sense of being used by operational combat aircraft or operational units. Groom Lake is Really a Research Center. It's purpose is to provide a place for Top Secret Research and Development. Most of Groom Lake is labs, and a mix of indoor and outdoor testing ranges.

Second, the facility has been home to many exotic aircraft over the years, many with very unusual designs and flight characteristics. People who have caught a glimps of these planes without knowing what they were repot them as UFO's because many things about them are very strange: amazing speed, the ability to make bazarre maneuvers in the sky. The ability to fly silently, strange light formations, ect. Remember:UFO does NOT mean it is from another world. UFO means Unidentified Flying Object. A UFO is ANYTHING in the air that you can NOT identify! Now where the ET stories came from, I don't know!

Tim



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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I don't think that I would say that "most" of the facilities at Groom lake are "labs." They certainly are not identified as such in the maps, building directories, Standard Operating Procdures, reports, manuals, or interviews. It would be more accurate to say that most of those facilities are infrastructure for testing. It is really just like Edwards AFB (Not surprisingly!) in many respects, but for more "black" programs.

UFO lore was first attached to Area 51 in April 1980 when someone named "Mike" told a representative from the Mutual UFO Netwok (MUFON) that he had worked at Groom Lake and had seen a flying saucer undergoing secret tests in the early 1960s.

The first widespread public exposure of such stories took place in October 1988 on the Fox network's television program "UFO Cover-up? Live!." Two alleged "inside informants," with faces and voices obscured, told the interviewer that secret testing involving extraterrestrial beings was taking place in Nevada at "an area called Area 51, or Dreamland." One of the informants claimed that "the extraterrestrials have complete control of the base," the result of an agreement between the U.S. government and the aliens that had gone awry.

Anyone who has ever worked at the Groom lake facility finds this notion laughable.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
I don't think that I would say that "most" of the facilities at Groom lake are "labs." They certainly are not identified as such in the maps, building directories, Standard Operating Procdures, reports, manuals, or interviews.


You took what I was saying out of context! I was talking about testing and research areas, such as: Labs, Indoor Test Ranges, Wind Tunnels, ECT. Most of the base is used for research including Test area.

Tim

[edit on 6-9-2005 by ghost]



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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I agree with Ghost on this one. The term LABS can be used to describe just about any type of scientific enviroment.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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Decent post ghost, appreciate it


The reason why Groom Lake\Area 51 has a reputation is due to the fact that it's a secretive base that doesn't wish to let any 'US opposition' know about their new 'war machines'. Of course they are going to hide all their current projects from the public, if the public have this information then so does the 'opposition'.

Therefore, the types of folks you'll find in the Aliens & UFOs section here on ATS will look at this secrecy and think ALIENS!!! Well, I'd like to see, hear, or even read some tangible proof of aliens coming to this planet, let alone proof of us capturing them or even WORKING with them (yeah I've read that one too).

My overall theory is that some people can be a little TOO imaginative these days.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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You can know all the truth about Groom Lake (A51/S4) you wish to find published.

All the other stuff such as Gal on the radar ban who witnessed 12 saucers floating around while other officers with no name insignia watched it all too.

She was later injected with something in her neck during interrogation and came forward to tell her story after being released from duty (she was not supposed to be there (outside the radar station when this stuff happened).

Being isoteric' O.K. but I suggest never indicating your research as 'facts' or 'truth'.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Dallas

You can know all the truth about Groom Lake (A51/S4) you wish to find published.

All the other stuff such as Gal on the radar ban who witnessed 12 saucers floating around while other officers with no name insignia watched it all too.

She was later injected with something in her neck during interrogation and came forward to tell her story after being released from duty (she was not supposed to be there (outside the radar station when this stuff happened).

Being isoteric' O.K. but I suggest never indicating your research as 'facts' or 'truth'.

Dallas


His 'facts' are by far more credible than yours. Who was this woman? Did you know her? Did SHE tell you this?

I rest my case.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Back to the subject of indoor test ranges and labs. I just don't find much of that at Groom.

There are two Engine Test Stands that were built in the 1960s. There are no wind-tunnels. I don't think we need to count the Photo Lab or the Precision Measurement Equipment Lab (Instrument Shop), both in Building 410. The TESC (Test Engineering Support Center?), Building 299 (which includes a mission control center), may house some simulators and engineering labs, but this is unconfirmed.

Based on maps, building directories, and witness testimony, most of the buildings on base have been identified as offices/administration, dormitories, storage, hangars, maintenace shops, radars, generators/powerplants, recreational facilities, fire stations, dining hallsshiiping & receiving, supply, communications, security/safety, laundry facilities, and passenger terminals. The rest is mostly related to construction activities and weapons storage.

But, no labs or indoor test ranges.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Oh come on now.. be nice. Don't ask that you believe me -- but be careful with your lack of ATS respect.
Iwill go into my past research and hopefully find the lady's interview.
I remember it clearly and can respect being questioned on her though.

Dallas



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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ShadowHawk, what so far is the best proof that there might be extra-terrestial technology on the base that you know of? what about S-4?

In the recent months, Lazar is becoming more and more credible, if what he says is true, this might explain alot about the Groomlake Facility.

Area-51/Groomlake could be a research base

S-4 could be where all the ET material is stored, but there is little solid proof for S-4...



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
S-4 could be where all the ET material is stored, but there is little solid proof for S-4...


Right Now, I've been trying to look into the S-4 story. So far, I haven't found any proof of S-4 or a facility at Papoose Lake! I'm open to any evidence on the topic. The problem with the S-4 story is, everything I have found so far starts with Bob Lazar and eventually leads back to him, and the question of his crediability. Reguardless of if you believe him or not, the fact is: Bob seems to be the only source of proof that S-4 exists. Unfortanatly, one man with a questionable background is not proof of anything. I have dug up many old documents on Area 51, E-mailed George Knapp at KLASTV in Las Vegas, and serched internet document for new leads. So far, I have nothing of any real use. For Now S-4 is just a roumor, unless you know how to prove otherwise. I'm out of ideas and leads.

Tim



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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GrOuNd_ZeRo asks: "ShadowHawk, what so far is the best proof that there might be extra-terrestial technology on the base that you know of? what about S-4?"

I'm with Tim on this one. There is NO PROOF of any involvement with extraterrestrial technology at Area 51. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who have worked at the facility (engineers, test pilots, base commanders, etc.) who think the whole idea of such a thing is laughable. It has become a joke (for those with a sense of humor) to people working there and an annoyance (to those without humor). There is no documentary evidence to support the hypothesis of ET tech at the site either.

There is also no proof of the existence of the so-called "S-4" facility. Lazar is not credible to begin with. I think that has been well established by now. No satellite images or aerial photos reveal any evidence of a facility near Papoose Lake in the loaction described by Lazar. Also, the Papoose Lake area is the site of the DREAMLAND Weapons Test Range (Not exactly a good location for a secret saucer test facility). The WTR Trailer Complex and Optical Trailers are visible in satellite images exactly where the Base Building Directory describes them "6.5 Miles West of Base on Sunset Road."

With all of the high-quality satellite imagery and declassified documentation now available to virtually any citizen, I am kind of surprised that we are still pursuing things like AURORA and Bob Lazar. It's as if the field of Area 51 research is stuck in 1992. These issues were studied in depth and put to rest. Time to move on. There are real secret projects yet to be unveiled (YF-113G, YF-24, etc.). Let's rock and roll!



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
In the recent months, Lazar is becoming more and more credible...


More credible to who?
...and based on what?


Sarge



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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He suddenly had a huge chunk of money and bought super computers, he also started a company (can't remember specifics), United Nuclear or something, I believe he works at Los Almos too...that does add to his credibility.

Perhaps he invented S-4 for publicity or misinfo on the Groomlake facility, but why mention ETs?



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
With all of the high-quality satellite imagery and declassified documentation now available to virtually any citizen, I am kind of surprised that we are still pursuing things like AURORA and Bob Lazar. It's as if the field of Area 51 research is stuck in 1992. These issues were studied in depth and put to rest. Time to move on. There are real secret projects yet to be unveiled (YF-113G, YF-24, etc.). Let's rock and roll!


Shadowhawk,

Just for the Record, the YF-113G is a Mig that is part of the Red Hat, Foreign aircraft test program. This is a cooprative effort between the US Air Force Forign Technology Division, the Air Intelligence Agency, and the CIA. The Foreign Aircraft that fly in this program use the designation YF-112 thorugh YF-116. If history is any guide, the code name for the program is almost certainly Have ? (put in a randome word for the Question Mark).

On a nother note, I agree, we need to move beyond Aroura. Aroua was a Code Name for something. Since the Name Aroura is well known, it would be considered compramized. Any Military Code Word or Name that is compramized is retired from use. Also, the truth is evolving costantly. Let's move on and see what's new! We still have a lot to learn about this base.

Folks, this thread was a biginning point, not an end! Let us move on Truth and Knowege don't stand still, they change a bit every day as we learn!

Tim



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Just for the record, Tim, the YF-113G was most emphatically NOT a MiG-23. That was erroneously reported by Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine (and subsequently repeated elsewhere). The confusion comes from the fact that other YF-113 designations (i.e. YF-113A, YF-113B, YF-113C, and YF-113E) have been used for various models of MiG-17 and MiG-23 aircraft.

The YF-113G was a "classified prototype." Col. Dennis Sager's bio says that he was "handpicked as commander of a classified flight test squadron" where he was "the first Air Force pilot to fly the YF-113G, a classified prototype," that he "led from design to first flight."

That is obviously not a description of a foreign aircraft type. Also, I have met "Bones" Sager. He was a Red Hat and he did fly MiGs. This just didn't happen to be one of them. The YF-1XX designations have been used for classified test aircraft at Groom Lake since the late 1960s. that is how we ended up with the F-117A. The original five SENIOR TREND airplanes flew under the designation YF-117A.

I interviewed the man who invented the YF-1XX designation series that has been used since the first MiG evaluation programs. The numbers were not assigned in any particular order and were later used for non-foreign type aircraft, such as classified technology demonstrators. YF-110B is followed by YF-113A. YF-114C is followed by YF-113C. YF-112C shows up much later. YF-117A (SENIOR TREND) is followed by YF-117D (TACIT BLUE), neither of which are MiGs or HAVE programs.

The foreign materiel programs were managed by the USAF Foreign Technology Division and involved USAF and Navy participants in technical and tactical evaluations of various Soviet aircraft types. USAF technical evaluations were carried out by the 6513th Test Squadron "Red Hats" (headquartered at Edwards AFB) while tactical evaluations were conducted by the 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron "Red Eagles" (headquartered at Nellis AFB). Navy test personnel were mainly from Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 4 (VX-4) "The Evaluators" at NAS Point Mugu. Such testing occured at Groom Lake, Tonopah Test Range, and several foreign locations. I have interviewed a number of the pilots and squadron commanders involved in these programs.



posted on Sep, 15 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The YF-113G was a "classified prototype." Col. Dennis Sager's bio says that he was "handpicked as commander of a classified flight test squadron" where he was "the first Air Force pilot to fly the YF-113G, a classified prototype," that he "led from design to first flight."


Do you have any idea what the YF-113G might be a prototype of?



That is obviously not a description of a foreign aircraft type. Also, I have met "Bones" Sager. He was a Red Hat and he did fly MiGs. This just didn't happen to be one of them. The YF-1XX designations have been used for classified test aircraft at Groom Lake since the late 1960s. that is how we ended up with the F-117A. The original five SENIOR TREND airplanes flew under the designation YF-117A.


So, why haven't we seen any other F-1XX planes enter service? Surly the F-117 can't be the only sucessful pane in the series! shouldn't something else have come out by now. Surly spyplanes aren't the onlything they have tried since the F-117! How did all these older research programs survive the "Slick Willy" Clinton years without leaking?

Also, why would a test plane be nomamlly designated "YF" anyway? Wouldn't X-? make more sense?

Tim



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