Permenant Magnet motor

Originally posted by postings
I am trying really hard to keep chatter out of it, so I haven't posted to it much.

Bargaindan,
Do you mind if I post your last how-to message on that forum? Or you can if you want? The mods for that forum really want serious information posted there, and your last post to this one was pretty strong in that regard. Let me know what you think, and as soon as I get an opportunity, I will be attempting to build what you suggest based on your directions.

-P



Please do!I am more than happy to share anything i can to this effort.Please remember though that that model was little more than a toy.

I will be building a more permanent one later.I work in retail though so I do not believe I will have time to spare on it until after the Christmas season though.OOPS,can I say Christmas here?I don't want to offend anyone by seeming religious.(ahem)

If you try to build it,good luck.The key is the placement of the magnets.There are devices on the market the can map a magnetic flux field but I cannot afford any of them,which means it will be a trial and error routine for me.

luck to all...

For anyone wanting to get their ideas in the semi-physical i suggest a program Pro-Desktop. Its fairly simple to use and very effective as a means to get your (engineering/invention based) ideas across. It is a brilliant CAD program.

Just for those of you who dont happen to know, CAD is Computer Aided Design. Its for people who want to build either a rough model or to scale 3D design of an invention/creation. (its what for example car companies, or engineers etc use to construct better models of new car parts, or a new type of nut and bolt)

Oh and about the CAD designs, theyre on my work laptop, which uncannily just so happens to be at work so i can start to finish them on Monday and post them for your analysis, or just for your nerdy-viewing-pleasure!

[edit on 26-11-2005 by Shadow88]

There is no doubt that a magnet motor can be made.
Magnet motors are not effecient enough to power a car or to be used as a generator. We have people here who think otherwise and have begun to build their own. I wonder why they think that they alone can pull off such a feat and produce effective designs.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
You should bear in mind that none of these companies has ever publicly demonstrated over unity in any of these devices.

Well that is what you have decided to believe but were you there? Why do you think i stick with the principles instead of speculating about wether individual machines work? Your approach is designed to avoid taking the topic seriously imo.

You might notice a common theme running through them in that that they are always just about to get a device to market, but for some reason (have a guess) never quite do. You can look at these sites again in 5 years and see that production or public demonstration is still "imminent".

Wich might either indicate that their all lying and that it's a huge conspiracy to fool us all or that the powers that be are very good at preventing these devices from reaching the market. Once again why not just stick to principles full well knowing how awesome the forces that are trying to prevent these technologies?

These are just 3 examples of the hundreds of magnet based perpetual motion machines that people have been attempting to build for over a hundred years with no success.

You have no evidence other than the fact that you do not have one in your home. Absence of said machines on market is proof that they are not possible? That is not logic and you know it.

Why not rather continue this in the thread were it started? You though i would not notice?

Stellar

Originally posted by Frosty
There is no doubt that a magnet motor can be made.
Magnet motors are not effecient enough to power a car or to be used as a generator.

Well mabye you should look into Tesla's electric car circa 1897 if i recall correctly.

We have people here who think otherwise and have begun to build their own. I wonder why they think that they alone can pull off such a feat and produce effective designs.

Why does anyone ever think they know better than the rest? Why do we have so many different religions? Why do scientist disagree on anything at all? It's basically called independence and it stems from the fact that we are individuals each having a mind of his own.

Surprised you had to ask that; Eesh.

Stellar

I wonder why they think that they alone can pull off such a feat and produce effective designs.

Its not "such a feat", its not at all that complicated. The basic principles are simplistic, its 5 year old physics. "the north pole repels the south pole" etc. The only difference is this will be set up on an axis so it spins.

We have people here who think otherwise

Its called free will and individuality. We're not robots we can be creative.

I think you need to watch this Askwhy.wmv Its really inspiring

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Shadow88]

Originally posted by StellarX
Well that is what you have decided to believe but were you there?

And why do you choose to believe they might have worked? For a start any of them could simply demonstrate their machine to James Randi and win a million dollars. If they worked that is. Any idea why no one has chosen to do this?

Why do you think i stick with the principles instead of speculating about wether individual machines work?

Well the principle is bunk, and the machines don't work either.

Wich might either indicate that their all lying and that it's a huge conspiracy to fool us all or that the powers that be are very good at preventing these devices from reaching the market.

Well as their is no evidence of a conspiricy, massive or otherwise, I shall assume they are all lying (or misguided in some cases). Can you show me any evidence of the "powers that be" somehow interferring with any of the "free energy" machine makers? Aside from anything else the "powers that be" here in the UK are desperately looking for ways to wean us off our dependence on Middle East oil. They would jump at a perpetual motion machine.

If any of these "inventors" could demonstrate over unity in their machines not only would they take a $1 million from James Randi but they would have investors throwing money at them. Electricity supply companies would be bidding billions to get hold of the patent and start churning out ultra-cheap electricity for enormous profits. Any reason why this hasn't happened?

Why not rather continue this in the thread were it started? You though i would not notice?

Don't really know what you mean by this.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Shadow88]

Originally posted by Shadow88

I wonder why they think that they alone can pull off such a feat and produce effective designs.

Its not "such a feat", its not at all that complicated. The basic principles are simplistic, its 5 year old physics. "the north pole repels the south pole" etc. The only difference is this will be set up on an axis so it spins.

We have people here who think otherwise

Its called free will and individuality. We're not robots we can be creative.

I think you need to watch this Askwhy.wmv Its really inspiring

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Shadow88]

I know that electric spark into gasoline produces fire, but does that necessarily mean I can build an internal combustion engine based just upon that? I would like to think not. There is more that goes into building an IC, and I would like to think the same is true with a magnet motor.

You say it is free will and individuality, I will call it lack of education.

And postings said "let there be PMM's, and lo, there were PMM's!

Here is the conceptual design for the prototype I am building, enjoy! The real thing will have two sets of rings and obviously decent supports (there are only two so you can see it how thoughtful of me!)





I would like to say its not a measurement-accurate design, hence the word "conceptual". Feel free to ask me any questions you have

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Shadow88]

What materials do you plan on using, how are these materials to be made into your specs, what will the total wieght be (estimated), would this machine incorporate any fluid dynamics? How do you plan on generating power and sustaining power?

(I will be posting a small conceptual video tomorrow by the way)

Well firstly i will be using neodymium as they are high power and fairly cheap.

To gain the maximum torque i will likely not be using ball bearings, but a liquid-based drag reducer, but i will get a professional opinion on which would be the best.

The shell and supports will be made out of non magnetic material, whether that be some kind of strong plastic or simply non magnetic metal.

The finished prototype will have two sets of rings; each angular section you can see will be a separate magnet; there will be spacers between each.

As for the weight, see, this is why i was leaning toward using as much plastic as possible, for weight reduction, but the base would have to be either weighted or screwed down, as it will likely vibrate a lot.

Lastly G+S the power. Obviously i cannot say how much power will be produced, but if its not sufficient to power many external devices "live", then i will look into firstly increasing torque, and if all else fails it will have a storage device that it would charge up overnight for example.

In all honesty im an inventor (no thats not a full time job ), im not an electrician so electronics isnt my forte. I have a good friend however that is collaborating with me on the electricity generation and storage etc. Im just building the device itself and focusing on the workings of the PMM. Storing or utilising that kinetic-potential energy comes later.

EDIT: oh sorry and specification/custom parts; my father is an expert in engineering, metalwork etc. and has access to the neccessary machinery to build parts for a working prototype.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Shadow88]

Shadow88,
I would completely agree, definitely post it there.

-P

Originally posted by Shadow88
Ok so ive almost finished the CAD models of (my interpretation of) a PMM - Started them on Wednesday - (sound so ominous

lol like ZPM Stargate)

If you like i will post them shortly. But which thread? this one or the Research Project. I would think the latter as it is R+D, not chatter

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Shadow88]

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Shadow88]

Another word of note to the naysayers . . . Basically what you are saying is "your not going to be able to get it to work, so why try?" Well my question is "why do anything if that is the case?" Don't get me wrong, I think a healthy dose of skepticism is important. The other thing is there is talk of evidence. I am 2 degrees away from a person who invented a device that was supposed to improve AC efficiency drastically in cars. He was bought out by one of the big oil companies (if I remember correctly) and the invention was never heard of again. There is other evidence as well. Bargaindan has a working prototype that doesn't produce torque (yet) Shadow88 and I both have designs for stuff that probably can't miss. My design is not a true magnet motor, because it does rely heavily on gravity. My point is that there are promising signs. Just becuase you don't get torque out of a prototype doesn't mean anything. My point of view is that if you can get sustained motion, you can also get torque if you exploit the right principles.

-P

Originally posted by postings
Another word of note to the naysayers . . . Basically what you are saying is "your not going to be able to get it to work, so why try?"

As one of the "naysayers", I'm not saying don't try - it will be an interesting project and you will probably get some useful skills and knowledge out of it. Just don't expect to build anything than a normal magnetic motor. People have been building magnetic motors since 1821 and none of them have ever achieved over-unity. What is it about your device that is different from all the ones that have ever been made?

The other thing is there is talk of evidence. I am 2 degrees away from a person who invented a device that was supposed to improve AC efficiency drastically in cars. He was bought out by one of the big oil companies (if I remember correctly) and the invention was never heard of again.

That's not really evidence though is it? It's just rumour, and pretty vague at that.

Done! Its all there in the PMM Project page and a couple more pics.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by Shadow88]

I had a thought driving home tonight about the torque problem.I wonder if a PMM motor was connected to an automotive style torque converter would work.Basic working concept would introduce a high speed low torque device into a fluid based transmission to provide a greater as well as more constant output torque at the other end.

Anybody have thoughts about that?I might work on that idea when I build my larger scale working version next year.

automotive torque converters are power hogs to tell you the truth... in concept, it seems feesable, but the drag is where you'll lose power. The best idea would be to create a high RPM motor and gear it down to create more useable torque.

Basically, all an automotive torque converter does is allows the engine RPM's to reach a bit higher in the torque curve before fully locking the transmission and engine into drive, thus why they have "stall speeds". Witha fairly standard 1500 RPM converter, you can apply the brakes and stomp your gas pedal to the floor and it will only go up to 1500 RPM's (depending on how much power your engine produces...).

In the 4WD world, you create torque to climb things by gearing... in almost all autos, your top gear is meshed 1:1 ratio, meaning that for every revolution of your crankshaft, your driveshaft spins the same. That is why they do power tests on a chassis dyno in drive gear (overdrive gear is, for exxample, 0.7:1 ratio... sometimes the 5th or 6th gear, depending on your transmission...) When you are in drive gear, you are relying on horsepower to keep you moving, whereas when you are in first gear you have a multiplied torque to get you moving. 4WD vehicles use lower gearing to multiply the torque even more, such as low gear in a transfer case.

I know the engineers may not have needed that explanation, but ya never know... sometimes you just don't think about something until someone brings it up

Oh yeah... just thought of something else... if you're gonna gear down the motor to multiply torque output, consider using sprocket/chain combos... they are much more efficient in most cases, but mind you they don't last as long. BUT, you can steal sprockets and chains off of an old 10-speed as a cheap alternative for expirimenting. Once you find that right ratio, then you can start hunting for gears that mesh properly and create the proper ratio.... gears aren't cheap, I've already looked into it for some projects I was considering

Go to a photo copier place and ask them for large trashed copiers. Those have tiny #25 chains/sprockets in them and the sprockets have hubs on them and will fit small shafts. They also have gears in them too.

I personally have not had the will to make a magnetic motor since last posting. I have been working on my scooter and lasers and if I find some bismuth locally I'll do some experiments on it and see if I can get it to switch a magnetic field. I have found that bismuth was mentioned on the disclosure project, other ufo sites and even "normal" pages that it has odd properties ( www.rexresearch.com... ).

If we could switch a magnetic field with very low power, "magnetic" energy would be possible with 1-4 magnets and not 30 and up.