Permenant Magnet motor

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posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Nevermind, monopole magnets look to be only mythical.

-P

Originally posted by postings

Having said that, I was thinking about something. Suppose I use mono-pole magnets for motors? Has anyone thought of doing this? Any ideas for how one might get something like this going?

-P




posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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sounds much like perendev they are claiming to build this kind of technology.



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Perendev eh? I'll have to check that one out as well. Though monopoles don't actually occur in nature, you can simulate the effect as I have found out. Simply glue like poles of like shaped magnets together, and you will have a monopole . . . well sorta. Assuming that once glued together the two magnet pieces form a cube, 2 opposing sides will have the same polarity, whereas it seems like the rest of the sides will have the opposite polarity of the first two. In other words, you can't make the entire thing point North.

Some other interesting tidbits . . . You can shield magnetic flux. Actually this is probably a pretty basic concept, but it brings an idea to mind, which basically goes like this:

Shield the flux you don't want, and keep the flux you do want.

That, or course, brings up an other issue . . . To shield flux, you have to use feretic material; any material that is attracted to a magnet, and is not a magnet itself (Correct me if I misunderstand please!).

If you are using it as a shield, care must be taken to minimize unwanted attraction between the ferite material and particular magnets.

I know I am being SUPER vague here, so here is an example. Suppose in your magnet motor, your south end starts to approch the north end of your magnet. You don't want that to happen, so you erect some kind of ferite shield in between right? Care must be taken in that case to keep the shielding from doing more attraction than shielding in that case. Make sense?

Now in the last link I posted, the problem I ran into was that the excitor magnet I used would repel the same-pole flat-facing magnets nicely, but once it reached the end of the line of magnets, it would hang up on the end, I THINK because at that point in the rotation, the pull from the final magnets was greater than the repulsion. It was concentrated at that one point. One modification might be to shield that with ferromagnetic material. This would deaden the attractive effect enough to keep the wheel going around. Once it reaches the beginning of the line of magnets again, there would be another shield there as well. MAYBE.

A final conclusion I have reached is that I need to get the following:

www.kjmagnetics.com...

This will probably help me a lot.

-P



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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Epiphany:

So the following:

www.keelynet.com...

Didn't completely work (see the first diagram). WHen I placed the magnets with the north end facing outward, it didn't work.

Now note the following movie:

www.fdp.nu...

Notice how it get locked up? Here is an idea . . . Instead of 1 wheel, I have several, maybe 5. Each one of them is offset so that there is always 3 getting lots of acceleration that more than compensates for the other two that would otherwise get locked up.

That design will take some doing, and more magnets for sure. I REALLY need someone who is capable of fabricating these designs relatively inexpensively.


-P



posted on Aug, 20 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by postings
Nevermind, monopole magnets look to be only mythical.

-Thats right.Monopole magnets are thought to exist,but have never been proven through experimentation.I believe though that a monopole magnet would behave similarly to an electrical charge and would be useless to our cause because of this behavior.

We really need to make use of attraction/repulsion forces working in our favor.

Ther are a few websites I haven't seen posted in this thread yet that will possibly be of great assistance.I won't have time to do them tonight but I'll see if I can get them posted tomorrow or Monday.

I was thinking yesterday that a vacuum environment may exponentially improve the performance,but haven't found any data on that yet.Any of you folks have any comments on that idea?I've come up with a plan but still haven't sourced out the magnets to make it work yet.Can't wait to finish moving so I can get to work on this in the shop.

Question for you.Are you designing to make a duty type motor?Meaning a motor to perform actual work like run a fan or whatnot.I am designing mine to power a subsidiary device that will generate an electrical current for other purposes.Remember,the more you put into it the greater the resistance on the fields generated by the magnets.

It seems that the closer the opposing magnets are the greater the influence.Several references mention that the air gap between them needs to be almost microscopic for best results.

Be back in a couple of days.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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Hi Bargaindan,

Basically I want a proof-of-concept first. I wanna get something that will spin on its own once started. Once I get to that point, I can start tweaking for maximum efficiency. The key is to get it to the point that it is relatively easily repeatable. If I get something working, that no one can verify, what good is it IMHO?

The airgap thing sounds pretty spot-on. At this time, I am reaching the technical limits of what I can do with the tools I have, and will need to have the remainder of my designs machined. The good news is that I am relatively sure that those designs will work.

Incidentally, take a look at these videos of the Minato drive:

www.fdp.nu...

Some of it looks like bunk to me, but nevertheless there are some interesting effects.

-P


XL5

posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 05:35 AM
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What I find odd about those Minato movies is that in one of them it seemed like he was pushing the repelling magnets together and in one video he almost seems to miss the degree of rotation where he could get the most movement. Maybe its the reason he put magnets on only one side of the wheel, so he can time its "needs".
I figure that if he put all this time into these things that he would have made an adjustable rig to put the stationary magnet on?

What would be neat is if bismuth or some other element could be used as a magnetic flux switch that is triggered by a very low energy souce.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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XL5, I noticed the same thing. I have read comments that when the magnet he was holding (would that be called the exciter magnet?) were held still, it still worked.
As far as an adjustable rig, you have a good point there as well, but wouldn't the disks with the spiral-oriented magnets qualify?
I am going to have to read up on bismuth it sounds like . . . I didn't know it had that property. So you say that it can create magnetic flux when a charge is somehow applied to it? I would assume that it is dipole right?

-P


Originally posted by XL5
What I find odd about those Minato movies is that in one of them it seemed like he was pushing the repelling magnets together and in one video he almost seems to miss the degree of rotation where he could get the most movement. Maybe its the reason he put magnets on only one side of the wheel, so he can time its "needs".
I figure that if he put all this time into these things that he would have made an adjustable rig to put the stationary magnet on?

What would be neat is if bismuth or some other element could be used as a magnetic flux switch that is triggered by a very low energy souce.



posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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More info on Bismuth and diamagnetics. Discussion below that:

Link

"The bismuth disks are diamagnetic. This means that they push away from a magnet. It doesn't matter whether the north pole of the magnet or the south pole is used, the bismuth always pushes away.

The diamagnetism is very weak, even in bismuth, which has the strongest diamagnetism of any metal. This is why the adjustment is so sensitive."


Also here:

Link

"The forces created by diamagnetism are extremely weak, millions of times smaller than the forces between magnets and such common ferromagnetic materials as iron. However, in certain carefully arranged situations, the influence of diamagnetic materials can produce startling effects such as levitation."

I would be very curious to see what effect a diamagnetic has on flux. It can levitate a magnet though right? And according to the article above, it has properties of repulsion for all kinds of magnetics. This could have applications with the creation of a magnet motor. The fact that its effects are very weak should be taken into consideration as well. Please note the design for the Minao magnet motor below:



Suppose the magnets that are on the wheel are not actually magnets, but are in fact Bismuth, or some other similar material? This could indicate another direction of experimentation. Assuming we kept the weight of the bismuth material VERY low, we could get some sustained rotation (which at this point is all I am looking for). I would be anxious to hear folks ideas about this.

-P


XL5

posted on Aug, 21 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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As for bismuth switching magnetic flux, I meant it as a "what if". If it could switch flux and turn magnetic almost instantly, magnets flux could be pulsed through a transformer.

The disks that have magnets all around it seem like it may work but cressent shaped magnets would probably be needed (bent metal triangles would be a cheaper way to mimic the cressent shape). There was also mention of a rig with a fixed exciter magnet but it also had a powered coil, I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that Minato should make more videos showing more possibilities/proof.



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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HI XL5,
Good comments! I am especially interested in why you believe the crescent shaped magnets are more effective? You aren't the only person to say that which is why I am wondering. I also kinda want to find a place to buy magnets that are shaped like that. Still looking around though.

-P


Originally posted by XL5
As for bismuth switching magnetic flux, I meant it as a "what if". If it could switch flux and turn magnetic almost instantly, magnets flux could be pulsed through a transformer.

The disks that have magnets all around it seem like it may work but cressent shaped magnets would probably be needed (bent metal triangles would be a cheaper way to mimic the cressent shape). There was also mention of a rig with a fixed exciter magnet but it also had a powered coil, I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that Minato should make more videos showing more possibilities/proof.


XL5

posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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The crescent shaped magents were first mentioned in this link:www.keelynet.com...
I dont know if that shape is really needed or if you can use bar shaped magnets but at an exact angle?

I'm not sure but I think those tiny metal BB's used in the "shoot the star" midway games have bismuth in them, I can't see them using lead since those BB's get everywhere (they flatten well though).



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Just wondering because I am thinking of ordering crescent-shaped magnets. The only thing at issue is how they need to be shaped. I am thinking I will need to get some magnetic film so that I can see what the fields look like, and how a crescent-shaped magnet might help.

-P



posted on Aug, 22 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Hi guys ;
It looks like the design aspects are going in two different directions.Thats a good thing because there won't be any replication if one of them doesn't perform as desired.To see what my basic concept is check out this link:
[url=www.newebmasters.com/freeenergy/sm-pg45.html]

This is a copy of the Science and Mechanics article describing Howard Johnsons permanent magnet motor.It goes into some detail.It also contains the entirety of his patent application and grant of the same device.

It's got a lot of good info there,well worth the read.At any rate,his premise was to provide a motor running from permanent magnets that would run a generator to produce electricity.According to the article and the patent sheets it worked quite well.I'm surprised no one ran with the concept to produce a marketable device.

Well,maybe not entirely,there is after all a conspiracy to eradicate the notion of free energy isn't there?

My setup,while following HJs basic consept will be somewhat different.I do not think I will get into the particulars at this point though.Not quite sure if it will work yet.The concept is good but the mechanics of it may backfire since it doesn't exactly follow commonly accepted laws of physics and such.

My immediate goal is to power a generator to charge a battery bank.I'll be hooking that up to my house and see if that set up will provide enough juice to be worth going further with it.

Bought a CAD program today.As soon as I figure out how it works I will try to get a firm design down in case anyone wants it.

Later...



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by bargaindan

Bought a CAD program today.As soon as I figure out how it works I will try to get a firm design down in case anyone wants it.

Later...


Hi Bargaindan,
I read the article you posted. I was looking around for that too, and couldn't find it, so I am glad you posted it. Between the patent, and the article, I think I can get enough information about how to build one. There are some dimensions in the patent concerning the shape of the magnets, and some dimensions in the article as well. The tough part will be fabricating the whole mess. Again, I will probably have to find a place that will fabricate the parts for me, and then I will just assemble them the best I can.

As for the CAD software, I will post back again tonight about place that does something kinda cool. They supply their own home-brew CAD sofware for you which allows you to design some parts to spec, and that software will tell you how much it will cost you to do that. Pretty cool. I will post a link later tonight.

-P



posted on Aug, 23 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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All,
I found a site that has schematics for a motor based on the HJ motor. See below:

Link

For those interested in fabrication, this should be pretty helpful. Incidentally, I was reading around and apparently people have made smaller versions of these motors that cost significantly less than the largest versions. Maybe there is some way to scale it down to make it less expensive . . .

-P



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:56 PM
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Perendev's site has been under quite abit of scrutiny and scepticism, mainly because the owner (micheal? brady) fails to live upto his promises and hasn't provided a decent, glitch free video of the supposed machine powering up from scratch and then powering down again



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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All,
This came in REALLY handy . . .

www.emachineshop.com...

Basically you can download and install (Windows) a utility that allows you to design a part for them to custom build. Their software will even tell you how much it costs. I have a design that I wanted them to fabricate, so after a couple of half-hearted attempts, I finally embarked on a concerted effort. The results were nothing short of stunning. You can view the designed part in 3D, and it looks precisely as I had planned. I will send it to shop within 6 months (my delay not theirs). Hopefully it will come back just as I had designed it.

-P



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Before you go ahead, perhaps you should read this (long) thread from Physics Forums:

www.physicsforums.com...

In which someone posts the idea for a "perpetual motion" motor such as the one you are discussing. Several physicists show how it is actually impossible, and in quite a lot of detail, though it isn't too technical at all.

You'll learn a lot about how electrical motors work anyway.



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Hopefully this will help as well:

1) Work on a "resonance" frequency for your motor
2) Tap into a vortex (ie motor needs to be spinning horizontally)
3) Imagine the motor as "one" complete permanent magnet with magnetism flowing throughout the motor in total harmony
4) Resonance is the key

Another good lead; read Henry T. Moray regarding "harmony". Page 30 of the following:

www.tesla.hu...

talks about "electrical" charge, however the same principal can be applied for "magnetic" charge.

A bundle of good info can be found at:

web.archive.org...*/www.magneticenergy.com...

Look at the various romag motors etc in the archives and read the notes re "charging" of the system. www.magneticenergy.com has been closed down for some time now...not sure why and no response from the domain holder.

Cheers

JS





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