How Do They Enter and Leave ?

lilblam

You have to go by what you are comfortable with. I don't trust everybody either, but I don't make a judgment just on my own not knowing, and certainly not on what everybody else says. I go by my own experience with somebody for myself and then make a judgment on how I feel about them.

I agree with you about govt, but not the whole or all the govts, and not to your degree of excitement. Also, just because we know how easily people can be professionally and intellectually tricked, does not mean that everybody professional and intelligent is trying tricking them.

Maybe the best we can do right now is suspect anyone who is at the debating table to each try to convince us of something else. Maybe that's why the aliens have not even approached the table yet. We should at least be able to recognize who all the information is coming from and who it's not coming from.

As for STS and STO, those are just human concepts. All the visiting races are just fine and not hurting anybody. They are not divine and not perfect, but they are the professionals of their races. They are the most intelligent, educated and morally motivated who dedicate their lives in the positions they hold between our worlds. That is hard for humans to think because we don't have many people like that in truly high positions of politics and govt. We have a lot of crime and secrets in our high positions instead. Humans can lie and sneak and do things other humans don't know about and can't find out about. Humans can be greedy and want more money and power. The advanced races are past all that already.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by jritzmann
I just dont get into the nuts and bolts of MRI implants and such because unless theyre removed and scientifically studied and found to be truly unique by more then one scientist (independant) they arent worth a damn. Most if not all are found to be common objects, and bodily fragments. Scars again dont do anything, theyre just scars, and totally unreliable for data.

An unexplainable scar can indicate a great deal depending upon where it is and its particular configuration.

I remember seeing a documentary that addressed an implant that was in a man's leg. They removed the object, had it analyzed, and the conclusion was that the metal alloy was not native to the planet. Then you have those implants in the brain which Terran surgeons attempt to remove but cannot because they actually dig themselves deeper when exposed. Implants in the skull are considered to be more serious than those in the arms and legs.

Be grateful that you are not an abductee.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]

I dont think you've read alot of my posts on this board (which is understandable there's so many people) I have had experiences since I was 5 yrs old. (at least that far back) I dont particularly like the "abductee" tag, and the "victim" label that goes with it.

I understand your points, but we just come to different ends..makes the world go round.

Originally posted by EarthSister
lilblam

You have to go by what you are comfortable with. I don't trust everybody either, but I don't make a judgment just on my own not knowing, and certainly not on what everybody else says. [...]

I agree with you about govt, but not the whole or all the govts, and not to your degree of excitement. Also, just because we know how easily people can be professionally and intellectually tricked, does not mean that everybody professional and intelligent is trying tricking them.

Of course not, but we also cannot assume that someone is honest anymore than we can assume that they are dishonest. So believing someone on their word would be to make such an assumption.

Maybe the best we can do right now is suspect anyone who is at the debating table to each try to convince us of something else.
Maybe that's why the aliens have not even approached the table yet.

STO would never try to debate or convince you of anything, so they'd never approach a "debating table" period. If you ever see aliens debating and trying to convince us of anything, you can safely know that they are STS and have only their best interests at heart.

We should at least be able to recognize who all the information is coming from and who it's not coming from.

You mean like, know whether intelligence that Iraq had WMD's came from the imagination of a few power hungry psychopaths, or whether it is real intelligence from an "intelligence officer" (spy?). I say former!

As for STS and STO, those are just human concepts.

I disagree, because anytime there is an entity at ANY level of awareness in any realm of existance, it has SOME form or interaction/communication with something other than itself. And given that there is such a thing as "SELF" and "OTHERS", and some relationship between self and others, there will be an objective "nature" to this relationship. Either it will serve SELF and its own interests at the expense of others, or it will serve OTHERS. Either it will lie/manipulate/control, or it will only help when asked and never impose its will on others. Either it respects free will, or it does not.

All the visiting races are just fine and not hurting anybody.

Says who? That's another assumption you are making. Abducting someone is a pretty "hurtful" violation of their free will, and very self-serving. So yup, I'd say they are hurting plenty of people by denying them the choice to be left alone to live their lives and learn their lessons! Unless you think abduction doesn't happen...

Oh and, can you speak for ALL races that are here? Are you aware of every single one and of their true nature and intentions? If not, why make such a naive assumption, especially given the evidence to the contrary?

They are not divine and not perfect, but they are the professionals of their races. They are the most intelligent, educated and morally motivated who dedicate their lives in the positions they hold between our worlds.

Or so they say, and so do our governments say about themselves, but how do you KNOW? If you believe either of them, you are making an assumption. How can you judge whether someone is the "most intelligent, educated and morally motivated" of their race, if their entire race is so far above ours, that it would be like a dog judging which human is the most intelligent in the human race. A dog is so far below humans, that it cannot perceive which human is more "intelligent" than the other, as all humans are extremely advanced compared to the dog and it cannot fathom or understand our "intelligence" or level of perception, and so it would be incapable of making any sort of judgement regarding which human stands in what position when it comes to human intelligence! Even a human child often cannot tell which adult is more intelligent, and all adults seem equally smart to a child until the child grows a little and realises that some are indeed naive, ignorant, biased, and some are less so. But this requires the child to first develop an intelligence that is capable of SEEing this.

We have a lot of crime and secrets in our high positions instead. Humans can lie and sneak and do things other humans don't know about and can't find out about. Humans can be greedy and want more money and power. The advanced races are past all that already.

Who says they are "past" it? Taking their word for it again? Didn't you say you don't make judgements based on what everybody says? Well how do you know that they are "past" it? And again, if they abduct people, then this clearly shows that not only are they not past it, they completely disregard free will and are arrogant and selfish enough to think they can do whatever the hell they want with us BECAUSE they are more powerful and intelligent. Of course we cannot abduct them, or else maybe they'd think twice about abducting us lol! But we abduct our "animals" just as they abduct us, and we think it is "for their own good" as well, but it doesn't change the objective fact that we are imposing our will on theirs for SELFISH reasons. Nothing in nature dictates that we have to abduct and experiment on, or domesticate and control/interfere with animals and their lives, it is our choice because we want to do it, and so it is the aliens' choice to abduct us because they want to do it. Yes that does sorta bring me to another thought, what if they "eat" us like we eat animals? Or is that so "absurd" sounding that you would not even consider it?

Anyways, intelligence and higher awareness does not mean "goodness", there is ALWAYS a choice of whether you go UP or DOWN, whether you choose your power to control others or to help others. And as long as a choice exists, SOMEONE makes both choices! So assuming that they are "past" it because they are more "advanced" on all levels than we are, is just that, an assumption. Advancement in intelligence, awareness, and technology, has nothing to do with whether you choose to serve others or to rule others. So let me ask, why do you think they are past it (or is that just something they told you?).

[edit on 10-6-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by jritzmann

I understand your points, but we just come to different ends..makes the world go round.

Try and prevent yourself from ever going through that again. No matter how it is labeled, it is not a good thing to go through.

Lilblam,

Excellent posts.

I see that you and I are coming at this issue from different angels but have similar conclusions. STO and STS, as well as the Absolute Truth about anything, are not relative.

Additionally, intelligence and power do not automatically equate to STO and striving to live by The Golden Rule.

This debate addresses a conflict of values. Some feel that intelligence, science and power are of utmost importance, like the aliens themselves. Others feel that intelligence, science and power are only tools that can be and are used by the morally corrupt.

The way to distinguish what we are dealing with is by how they treat innocents. Since they kidnap many people unwillingly and use them as laboratory animals, we know that they are not people of good moral character, to say the least. "Judge them by their fruits." Regardless of their culture or "religion," we cannot and should not have anything to do with them. Contact with these aliens is only to our disadvantage because they are of the STS focus and show no indications of becoming STO. Their covert activities and unwillingness to openly declare their presence only serves to confirm their hostile intentions.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by jritzmann

I understand your points, but we just come to different ends..makes the world go round.

Try and prevent yourself from ever going through that again. No matter how it is labeled, it is not a good thing to go through.

Well, I ended it some 6 years ago. Gladly I might add.

I've seen it. I don't know how it's done, but I've seen one go right through a wall once. Another vanished right into thin air.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
I've seen it. I don't know how it's done, but I've seen one go right through a wall once. Another vanished right into thin air.

My first guess is that you are drawing upon one or more screen memories that were implanted in you from a Zetan-alien abduction.

My second guess is that I have super god powers that prevent them from reading my mind, teleporting or walking through walls in my presence, even after they project their white paralysis floodlight through my second story bathroom window.

Somehow I don't think the latter is the case.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I see that you and I are coming at this issue from different angels but have similar conclusions. STO and STS, as well as the Absolute Truth about anything, are not relative.

It is my understanding that the universal duality exists at all levels except the last level - that of God, which is infinite and does not perceive any difference between IT and all else, since it IS "all". But in a rather funny way, at the level of the infinite, there is no such thing as "all" anymore, because "all" is a finite concept, it implies "manyness", but there are no numbers or finite concepts at infinity, once infinity is perceived, nothing else exists, only the One, or perfect unity. Infinity is One thing, it cannot be divided into anything, multiplied, added to, or subtracted from. So infinity has no "parts" to it, becasue each "part" is an illusion since it also would be equal to infinity (infinity/2 = infinity). And so once it is achieved, individual consciousness ends, separation and duality ends, finity and manyness ends, EVERYTHING ends except perfect unity as ONE infinite "consciousness", or "intelligent energy" or whatever ya wanna call it

Additionally, intelligence and power do not automatically equate to STO and striving to live by The Golden Rule.

Just like on Earth there are people who use their knowledge to help others, and some who use it only to grow in power. In an infinite universe, if a choice exists for a path, SOMEONE will inevitably make that choice - that much is guaranteed. In fact dare I say that I think it is very likely that the universe is perfectly balanced and has an equal amount of STS and STO - at EVERY level. So starting from the most basic level of existance and awareness, that of matter itself perhaps, and ending to the level that is the one before unity with the One, every one of those levels has STO and STS, or at least some manner of STS and STO that is possible on that level.

I only say this because those are the only 2 choices (as I see it) in the entirety of creation in terms of "polarity". Whether you serve SELF, which is always there until you become one with everything at the very final level, or serve OTHERS who are also always there from the perspective of anyone who is not at the final level of infinity and thus unity. And no matter how "high" in level you rise, I see no reason (other than perhaps natural limitations) why you can't choose STS or STO. "power" is a very tempting thing, and to think that those at higher levels than humans are "past" it just because they are more advanced and intelligent, is rather naive and presumptuous, in my opinion. But more than that, there is plenty of evidence out there to the contrary that shows that not only are these guys STS, unlike humans who are often in denial about their own nature, these guys seem to know exactly who they are and what they are doing, they consciously chose this path. So their race is no longer "confused" and "multi-faceted" like humanity, at their level the choice has already been made, so everybody in their race knows their role and who they are and why they are where they are, and embrace it.

This debate addresses a conflict of values. Some feel that intelligence, science and power are of utmost importance, like the aliens themselves.

Well, some aliens I'd say. And of course, calling them "aliens" may be also presumptuous, they don't have to be from "another planet", they can simply be from other dimentions (realities), or even from some possible futures or possible pasts of our own planet, (not saying that these are all mutually exclusive). They may even be living in another level on our own planet with us, and we may not perceive them - all sorts of possibilities.

Others feel that intelligence, science and power are only tools that can be and are used by the morally corrupt.

Intelligence, science, and POWER (which comes from knowledge) can be used for any number of reasons, but in the end I think the question is, whether you use them to control others or to help others. Whether you use your power to GIVE or to TAKE. And the devil is in the details Oh and by "power" I personally don't mean power over others in terms of control, just "ability" because of the knowledge you have. Cuz by the time it becomes "power over others" then u've already made the choice of STS

The way to distinguish what we are dealing with is by how they treat innocents.

I'd even say how they treat anyone, including how their own society is structured. STO won't judge someone as "deserving of bad things" or "not innocent" I think, it's just that STO will likely not deal with or help STS simply because STS just uses this knowledge to control and enslave. But still STO won't treat STS any "worse" than anyone else, they will still help them to the degree that they truly ask for it (since they do help everyone who truly asks, no matter who they are), and most STS do not truly ask for help just to advance and grow, they always have a hidden motive/agenda in mind instead, some way to use that knowledge to gain more power/advantage over others. So giving someone knowledge who has the intention of using it against others is simply giving STS more power to subjugate others, and it would contradict your own polarity of STO - to help everyone grow and thus enhance their freedom through knowledge and awareness.

Their covert activities and unwillingness to openly declare their presence only serves to confirm their hostile intentions.

In my view STO also cannot openly declare their own presence, because that would violate free will of this planet to grow and learn and make our own mistakes, and not have some alien race just show up and declare themselves whether it would disrupt our existances or not. But at the same time, STO does not make back-handed deals with our corrupt governments, it does not interfere in any way at all, and so they have very little if any "presense" to speak of, they only gently assist those who are asking for help, but always mind not to interfere with free will, and to let us learn our lessons at our own pace, in our own way, and in our own chosen time.

And STS would not declare their presense until it suits them, so they don't do it out of regard for our free will, they just don't do it because secrecy suits them better at this time. Oh and as for making "deals" with our government, STS likely does not really do that either - they don't need permission of any humans, no matter how "powerful" the humans think themselves to be, to invade and do whatever the hell they want, including abduction, experimentation, etc. So the idea that they made a deal with our government and in exchange for their technology we LET them abduct people is pure lunacy - how can we NOT let them abduct people? Can ants in an anthill prevent humans from picking them up at will, or do we need to have the permission of the queen ant, and maybe give her some food in exchange? Of course not, that's kinda funny in fact.

However, it doesn't mean they are not contacting our governments, but it is most probable not to get permission for anything, but likely to either threaten them or tempt them, so our government does their will.

Oh I don't know, promising to our worldly leaders that after the upcoming cataclysms and cometary bombardments in our near future, they will be kept safe and will be given power over the remaining population of mankind, as a bargaining tool. It doesn't matter if it's a lie, and as long as our arrogant and selfish (and thus power-blinded) leaders are acting at the prospects of "promised" power in the near future, they will be obedient little tools that can be discarded at any time when they are no longer useful.

And of course this amounts to why they are currently herding the population to a finer order of control - so by the time "poop hits the noisy spinning device", there will already be a totalitarian police state (perhaps on a global basis) that will be able to maintain order and control social unrest. And what better way than to create an "absolute enemy" like terrorists, something that can NEVER be "defeated" and then wage an ever-lasting war on the entire friggin ideology? Once the population is sufficiently scared and paranoid by these imaginary threats (and a few staged terrorist attacks here and there, like 911, to make it seem real), they will gladly give up their own rights in exchange for "security", even though they are giving up their own rights to the very people who invented this whole threat in order to control them in the first place.

If we can get through the year 2005 without major "incident" that may even surpass 911, (since Bush's popularity is at its all time lows, and u know what happens when that happens!), I'll be very surprised. I've read some news items recently that suggest that the imaginary "Al Qaeda" is planning to do something really big soon, and given the recently captured "al qaeda" suspects, perhaps we are simply readying for the next "stage" of this "grand plan" (or is it plan for the new american century?). That would be the time when America would not only become a police state for "national security purposes", but it would really start killing muslims and arabs in general left and right, even tho we're sorta already doing this in Iraq.


[edit on 11-6-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I see that you and I are coming at this issue from different angels but have similar conclusions. STO and STS, as well as the Absolute Truth about anything, are not relative.

It is my understanding that the universal duality exists at all levels except the last level - that of God, which is infinite and does not perceive any difference between IT and all else, since it IS "all". But in a rather funny way, at the level of the infinite, there is no such thing as "all" anymore, because "all" is a finite concept, it implies "manyness", but there are no numbers or finite concepts at infinity, once infinity is perceived, nothing else exists, only the One, or perfect unity. Infinity is One thing, it cannot be divided into anything, multiplied, added to, or subtracted from. So infinity has no "parts" to it, because each "part" is an illusion since it also would be equal to infinity (infinity/2 = infinity). And so once it is achieved, individual consciousness ends, separation and duality ends, finity and manyness ends, EVERYTHING ends except perfect unity as ONE infinite "consciousness", or "intelligent energy" or whatever ya wanna call it

The idea that there are higher dimensions of spirit that are beyond "universal duality" (also known as "right and wrong," and "good and evil"), is a popular New Age concept. But I have found that good and evil, right and wrong, are not relative on ANY level. In order to progress into Sainthood and then on to stable God Realization, you have to emphasize the good, i.e., selfless service, daily Radiance of love and compassion, etc. There is no other way to spiritually progress to a high level. If you do not emphasize the good, you are not going to get there. Those who are on a level of God Realization, like The Original Creator who initiated The Big Bang, emphasized the good to a very high degree. Once His/Her Godhead formed, universal duality didn't all of a sudden become insignificant. Quite the contrary, the higher up you go on the evolutionary scale, the more important UD becomes. Why? Because the more powerful the soul, the greater the spiritual responsibility.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Additionally, intelligence and power do not automatically equate to STO and striving to live by The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by lilblam
Just like on Earth there are people who use their knowledge to help others, and some who use it only to grow in power. In an infinite universe, if a choice exists for a path, SOMEONE will inevitably make that choice - that much is guaranteed.

So true. Most in fact.

Originally posted by lilblam
In fact dare I say that I think it is very likely that the universe is perfectly balanced and has an equal amount of STS and STO - at EVERY level.

Boy, I wish that were the case!

Originally posted by lilblam
I only say this because those are the only 2 choices (as I see it) in the entirety of creation in terms of "polarity". Whether you serve SELF, which is always there until you become one with everything at the very final level, or serve OTHERS who are also always there from the perspective of anyone who is not at the final level of infinity and thus unity. And no matter how "high" in level you rise, I see no reason (other than perhaps natural limitations) why you can't choose STS or STO.

That depends upon how one defines "high." I refer back to my first paragraph in this post.

Originally posted by lilblam
"power" is a very tempting thing, and to think that those at higher levels than humans are "past" it just because they are more advanced and intelligent, is rather naive and presumptuous, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Originally posted by lilblam

But more than that, there is plenty of evidence out there to the contrary that shows that not only are these guys STS, unlike humans who are often in denial about their own nature, these guys seem to know exactly who they are and what they are doing, they consciously chose this path. So their race is no longer "confused" and "multi-faceted" like humanity, at their level the choice has already been made, so everybody in their race knows their role and who they are and why they are where they are, and embrace it.

Oh yes...they know exactly what they are doing all right.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
This debate addresses a conflict of values. Some feel that intelligence, science and power are of utmost importance, like the aliens themselves.

Originally posted by lilblam

Well, some aliens I'd say.

I would venture to state that those of that ilk have interstellar flight capability, what we refer to as the Space Races. These are the ones who are so far down the path of mind and technology that they adhere to the idea that Science is God. It stands to reason that the humanoid worlds of medieval technology who are not too far down that path, are more open to a progressive culture that emphasizes striving to live by The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by lilblam
And of course, calling them "aliens" may be also presumptuous, they don't have to be from "another planet", they can simply be from other dimentions (realities), or even from some possible futures or possible pasts of our own planet, (not saying that these are all mutually exclusive). They may even be living in another level on our own planet with us, and we may not perceive them - all sorts of possibilities.

In also having done some field work in past life regression research, I can attest that the reason why they call them "past lives" is because they are just that -- in the past. I also have found no evidence that anyone has ventured into our time-line from the future, physically or astrally. Which is not to state that it cannot happen, only that as far as I know, it has yet to occur.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Others feel that intelligence, science and power are only tools that can be and are used by the morally corrupt.

Originally posted by lilblam
Intelligence, science, and POWER (which comes from knowledge) can be used for any number of reasons, but in the end I think the question is, whether you use them to control others or to help others. Whether you use your power to GIVE or to TAKE. And the devil is in the details

Oh and by "power" I personally don't mean power over others in terms of control, just "ability" because of the knowledge you have. Cuz by the time it becomes "power over others" then u've already made the choice of STS

Agreed. It isn't power alone but application that determines STS or STO status.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The way to distinguish what we are dealing with is by how they treat innocents.

Originally posted by lilblam

I'd even say how they treat anyone, including how their own society is structured. STO won't judge someone as "deserving of bad things" or "not innocent" I think, it's just that STO will likely not deal with or help STS simply because STS just uses this knowledge to control and enslave. But still STO won't treat STS any "worse" than anyone else, they will still help them to the degree that they truly ask for it (since they do help everyone who truly asks, no matter who they are), and most STS do not truly ask for help just to advance and grow, they always have a hidden motive/agenda in mind instead, some way to use that knowledge to gain more power/advantage over others. So giving someone knowledge who has the intention of using it against others is simply giving STS more power to subjugate others, and it would contradict your own polarity of STO - to help everyone grow and thus enhance their freedom through knowledge and awareness.

In WWII, the Nazis generally didn't treat each other as badly as they did the Poles, Jews, etc., in concentration camps. To be an innocent is simply to be in a lesser position of power and be treated unfairly in some way.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Their covert activities and unwillingness to openly declare their presence only serves to confirm their hostile intentions.

Originally posted by lilblam
In my view STO also cannot openly declare their own presence, because that would violate free will of this planet to grow and learn and make our own mistakes, and not have some alien race just show up and declare themselves whether it would disrupt our existances or not. But at the same time, STO does not make back-handed deals with our corrupt governments, it does not interfere in any way at all, and so they have very little if any "presense" to speak of, they only gently assist those who are asking for help, but always mind not to interfere with free will, and to let us learn our lessons at our own pace, in our own way, and in our own chosen time.

Again, this harks back to The Golden Rule. If I were in a situation whereby I was being kidnapped by a group of space-faring extraterrestrials and was about to be used for a medical experiment, I would want people (from my planet or elsewhere) to interfere on my behalf and rescue me. Whether they did so discreetly without my awareness of their presence is neither here nor there. The point is that they initiated an act of compassion in service to an innocent, in this case, me.

Originally posted by lilblam
And STS would not declare their presense until it suits them, so they don't do it out of regard for our free will, they just don't do it because secrecy suits them better at this time. Oh and as for making "deals" with our government, STS likely does not really do that either - they don't need permission of any humans, no matter how "powerful" the humans think themselves to be, to invade and do whatever the hell they want, including abduction, experimentation, etc. So the idea that they made a deal with our government and in exchange for their technology we LET them abduct people is pure lunacy - how can we NOT let them abduct people? Can ants in an anthill prevent humans from picking them up at will, or do we need to have the permission of the queen ant, and maybe give her some food in exchange? Of course not, that's kinda funny in fact.

I don't think that the Zetans are invincible and that we are ants. There is evidence of a collusion going on with the Zetan-Greys and certain covert facets of the US government. So in this instance, you could and do have STS aliens making a deal. A deal, by the way, that has been known to be broken in favor of the Zetans. It is no surprise that they cannot be trusted, as this is also an STS trait.

Originally posted by lilblam
Oh I don't know, promising to our worldly leaders that after the upcoming cataclysms and cometary bombardments in our near future, they will be kept safe and will be given power over the remaining population of mankind, as a bargaining tool. It doesn't matter if it's a lie, and as long as our arrogant and selfish (and thus power-blinded) leaders are acting at the prospects of "promised" power in the near future, they will be obedient little tools that can be discarded at any time when they are no longer useful.

There may be some truth behind that appraisal.

Originally posted by lilblam
And of course this amounts to why they are currently herding the population to a finer order of control - so by the time "poop hits the noisy spinning device", there will already be a totalitarian police state (perhaps on a global basis) that will be able to maintain order and control social unrest. And what better way than to create an "absolute enemy" like terrorists, something that can NEVER be "defeated" and then wage an ever-lasting war on the entire friggin ideology? Once the population is sufficiently scared and paranoid by these imaginary threats (and a few staged terrorist attacks here and there, like 911, to make it seem real), they will gladly give up their own rights in exchange for "security", even though they are giving up their own rights to the very people who invented this whole threat in order to control them in the first place.

This is a commonly circulated conspiracy theory. Wars will always occur on this planet until people become highly evolved enough to become self-governing, oust the corrupt elements, and keep them out.



[edit on 11-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]

99% of this entire thread is lacking evidence, it's all opinions, so everyone please stop talking like you know this to be fact.
It get's very annoying.

Originally posted by Selective_ID
99% of this entire thread is lacking evidence, it's all opinions, so everyone please stop talking like you know this to be fact.
It get's very annoying.

If you are unable to discuss avant garde subjects that are in the process of evolving, then why are you in the AboveTopSecret forum in the first place?

Are you here to confirm your own prejudice?

Certainly, you would find better use of your time scurrying about trying to find what you consider to be physical proof on any number of subjects that ATS addresses.

Many of us have our own evidence and/or direct experience in these matters and would prefer cogent arguments instead of obviously close-minded posts that only show us a biased, ignorant perspective.

Do you have something constructive to add to this discussion?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

My first guess is that you are drawing upon one or more screen memories that were implanted in you from a Zetan-alien abduction.

My second guess is that I have super god powers that prevent them from reading my mind, teleporting or walking through walls in my presence, even after they project their white paralysis floodlight through my second story bathroom window.

Somehow I don't think the latter is the case.

Sounds like a guess to me. Heheh.

Ok, I can see why you'd think I was just making things up though. I didn't really give any details that would make you think I wasn't just babbling. But in all seriousness, I have seen this. Here's more details in this thread from a while back, if interested.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yep.

Hi CloudlessKnight,

Actually, I didn't think you were making things up at all. I presented my views with levity but still maintain them.

I went to your thread whereby you explained your encounter. The power outage is one of the characteristics of an abduction attempt. Even more significant was that you saw a Grey vanish the SECOND TIME you saw one in that house. This didn't happen the first time you saw a Grey there.

My point is this: this is always how it happens. No one reports the Zetans having the ability to read their minds, teleport, or walk through walls from their very first engagement. Only after repeated encounters do these screen memories take root in the abductees.

The feelings of fear and apprehension that you had also confirm that you were abducted.

This is why I don't have these beliefs. As of yet, the little bastards have not managed to kidnap and brainwash me into thinking that they have godlike powers.

My friend, you were abducted and brainwashed into thinking that the second Grey you saw teleported away. In truth, they have no such abilities.

The Zetans are masters at the art of psychological manipulation



[edit on 12-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Hi CloudlessKnight,

Actually, I didn't think you were making things up at all. I presented my views with levity but still maintain them.

I went to your thread whereby you explained your encounter. The power outage is one of the characteristics of an abduction attempt. Even more significant was that you saw a Grey vanish the SECOND TIME you saw one in that house. This didn't happen the first time you saw a Grey there.

My point is this: this is always how it happens. No one reports the Zetans having the ability to read their minds, teleport, or walk through walls from their very first engagement. Only after repeated encounters do these screen memories take root in the abductees.

The feelings of fear and apprehension that you had also confirm that you were abducted.

This is why I don't have these beliefs. As of yet, the little bastards have not managed to kidnap and brainwash me into thinking that they have godlike powers.

My friend, you were abducted and brainwashed into thinking that the second Grey you saw teleported away. In truth, they have no such abilities.

The Zetans are masters at the art of psychological manipulation

You could very well be right. But really I have no way of proving or disproving this, and neither do you, heheh. I'm well aware of screen memories being used to manipulate what a person believes. Many encounters that people believe they remember are full of truths, have truths, and flat out lies.

But if you'll read back to the first time I saw one, it did disappear, as though it went through the wall. This could be screen memory, or something I actually saw.

However, I don't believe they have 'god-like' powers. That fearful sound they made helps assure me of this... I don't have much respect for them either. Also, they may not have the natural ability to disappear, or walk through walls, etc. It's probably all technology based. Vanishing in thin air could just be a very complex form of technological camoflauge that they use to give the illusion that they are 'gone', when in reality they could still be standing right next to you.

Anyways... 'God-like' powers or not, they obviously have some means of getting in and out that we are not getting... Even if that means simply rendering us helpless, then screening our memories to generate confusion.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight

You could very well be right. But really I have no way of proving or disproving this, and neither do you, heheh.

No one can prove anything in an Internet forum.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight

I'm well aware of screen memories being used to manipulate what a person believes. Many encounters that people believe they remember are full of truths, have truths, and flat out lies.

But if you'll read back to the first time I saw one, it did disappear, as though it went through the wall. This could be screen memory, or something I actually saw.

You should pursue hypnotherapy regression to help clear up this matter quickly.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
However, I don't believe they have 'god-like' powers.

By god-like powers, I meant teleportation, telepathic ability, telekinetic ability, and the ability to walk through walls. In my opinion and experience, they can do none of these things. Again, if they had these capabilities, then I would have been abducted years ago and I currently would harbor the belief of their teleportation, among other things.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
That fearful sound they made helps assure me of this... I don't have much respect for them either. Also, they may not have the natural ability to disappear, or walk through walls, etc. It's probably all technology based. Vanishing in thin air could just be a very complex form of technological camoflauge that they use to give the illusion that they are 'gone', when in reality they could still be standing right next to you.

Optical invisibility has been demonstrated with their spacecraft. Whenever a UFO fades out in a glow of light, this is due to an electromagentic field that is activated around the craft which produces the desired effect of stealth. It isn't much of a stretch to consider that they can also do this for individuals outside a craft. But I am more apt to believe that one or more screen memories were involved.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight
Anyways... 'God-like' powers or not, they obviously have some means of getting in and out that we are not getting... Even if that means simply rendering us helpless, then screening our memories to generate confusion.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by CloudlessKnight

However, I don't believe they have 'god-like' powers. That fearful sound they made helps assure me of this... I don't have much respect for them either. Also, they may not have the natural ability to disappear, or walk through walls, etc. It's probably all technology based.

But at higher technological levels, what is the difference between what is "natural" and what is "technological"? At our primitive level of technology you can surely tell what is a "robot" and what is a real person, but how long do you think it will be before we can synthetically "grow" people, reverse-engineer the brain and our DNA, and even create our own brains and bodies with abilities that we only see in sci-fi movies? I'd say within the next 100 to 500 years that will be possible. Now, a civilization that is millions or billions years ahead of us would be at such a level that we simply cannot fathom or comprehend at this point.

Vanishing in thin air could just be a very complex form of technological camoflauge that they use to give the illusion that they are 'gone', when in reality they could still be standing right next to you.

Maybe that, or maybe it is more along the lines of "beam me up, Scotty!" (only without Scotty, and "slightly" more advanced version).

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
By god-like powers, I meant teleportation, telepathic ability, telekinetic ability, and the ability to walk through walls. In my opinion and experience, they can do none of these things.
Again, if they had these capabilities, then I would have been abducted years ago and I currently would harbor the belief of their teleportation, among other things.

Who says that just because you have not witnessed something that it does not exist? And who says that just because someone is abducted, they are shown all, some, or any of the abilities that their abductors possess?

Originally posted by lilblam

Who says that just because you have not witnessed something that it does not exist? And who says that just because someone is abducted, they are shown all, some, or any of the abilities that their abductors possess?

What we have to work with in an Internet forum such as this is deductive and inductive reasoning, eyewitness testimony, personal experience, intuition, and logical extrapolation

When the white paralysis floodlight entered my second-story window, we all managed to avoid contact with that light and thereby avoided paralysis and or unconsciousness. The Zetans did not walk through walls, read our minds to find out where we were in the house, or teleport us onto their spacecraft. Through inductive reasoning, I conclude that they cannot do any of these things.

I also had another incident when I was hit with a paralysis beam but it ricocheted off of my bedroom mirror and it did not have the same degree of effectiveness. At that time, they also had the opportunity to learn through telepathic means that I was not paralyzed or unconscious, to walk through walls to apprehend me, and to teleport me on-board their spacecraft. They did none of these things, which only serves to confirm my hypothesis that they are incapable of these actions or god-like abilities.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

When the white paralysis floodlight entered my second-story window, we all managed to avoid contact with that light and thereby avoided paralysis and or unconsciousness. The Zetans did not walk through walls, read our minds to find out where we were in the house, or teleport us onto their spacecraft. Through inductive reasoning, I conclude that they cannot do any of these things.

Cannot or simply chose not to, for whatever reason? Your conclusion that they cannot do any of these things (in this particular example) seems to be based on the fact that you assume that if they could, they would've done so. But that is simply your assumption - how do you know that they did not simply choose to "back off"? Or better yet, how do you know that their plan was to paralyze you in the first place, I mean, is every "white light" that seems to come from a UFO intended to paralyze you? And more than that, how difficult do you think it is to "aim" whatever it is they use to paralyze you and "abduct" you with? I mean, you can be abducted very easily by the military if they chose to, and you'd have practically no chance to hide or escape - so you think beings of power exponentially greater than anything on earth suddenly "failed"?

Also, how do you know they did not "read your mind", unless you can read theirs and determine that yours had not been read? How do you know they even NEED to "read your mind" to determine where you are in the house, when they have SO MANY options open to them to determine your exact location? How primitive do you deem them to be? Even our own government can use current technology that can see through all your walls and see exactly where you are in the house. Given our (relative to them) extremely primitive technological state, and already having the ability to SEE inside someone's house (not to mention other technologies based on heat detection, sound detection/analysis, etc), it is extremely naive of you to assume that they did not know where you were!

I also had another incident when I was hit with a paralysis beam but it ricocheted off of my bedroom mirror and it did not have the same degree of effectiveness. At that time, they also had the opportunity to learn through telepathic means that I was not paralyzed or unconscious, to walk through walls to apprehend me, and to teleport me on-board their spacecraft. They did none of these things, which only serves to confirm my hypothesis that they are incapable of these actions or god-like abilities.

Actually all that shows is that they did not do so, not that they cannot! In fact, for all you know, they did do it and simply erased the memory so you don't even realise it - that's another possibility. Hypnotic regression, as you suggested to someone, would probably shed some light on this too. But that idea aside, I still see no reason in any of your examples that tells me that they do not possess what you call "god-like abilities", and it seems that what you call "inductive reasoning" is based on nothing but an assumption.

Your hypothesis may very well be that they do not possess those abilities, and as probable as it may seem from our human point of view that they would've used those abilities in those particular circumstances, it is still only our assumption. We do not know what their plans for any of us are at any particular moment, what their intentions are at that moment, and just because they do not do something that we EXPECT them to (which is only our presumptuous anticipation based on our opinion of what they SHOULD do, nothing more), does not mean that they cannot do it!

It is not unlike a dog watching a human jump up and down for 5 minutes, and concluding that the human is attempting to fly and obviously cannot fly NOR does he have the technology to do so (because if he does, he would've used it by now right?) Forget the part that the human is playing basketball, that had not crossed the dog's mind. Or like a cat being chased by a young boy and concluding that humans cannot catch him, nor do they have any technology or ability to do so because if they did they would've used it! The cat doesn't realise the human is "playing" with it, and has no real intention to utilize "every means known to mankind" to catch it, even if that is the cat's assumption, which he then uses to draw false conclusions.

So why do you draw similar conclusions based on your assumption of what they are doing, and what you think they would do if they could?

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

When the white paralysis floodlight entered my second-story window, we all managed to avoid contact with that light and thereby avoided paralysis and or unconsciousness. The Zetans did not walk through walls, read our minds to find out where we were in the house, or teleport us onto their spacecraft. Through inductive reasoning, I conclude that they cannot do any of these things.

Cannot or simply chose not to, for whatever reason? Your conclusion that they cannot do any of these things (in this particular example) seems to be based on the fact that you assume that if they could, they would've done so.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by lilblam
But that is simply your assumption - how do you know that they did not simply choose to "back off"?

For what reason? They got bored?

Originally posted by lilblam
Or better yet, how do you know that their plan was to paralyze you in the first place, I mean, is every "white light" that seems to come from a UFO intended to paralyze you?

Yes.

Granted, as a UFO forum manager suggested to me: they also use scare tactics.

First comes the paralysis beam and then comes the abduction attempt. They will not enter a home or vehicle unless they know that their intended is either paralyzed or unconscious. This offers them the least resistance.

Originally posted by lilblam
And more than that, how difficult do you think it is to "aim" whatever it is they use to paralyze you and "abduct" you with? I mean, you can be abducted very easily by the military if they chose to, and you'd have practically no chance to hide or escape - so you think beings of power exponentially greater than anything on earth suddenly "failed"?

Stealth is the name of the game. They don't pursue high risk targets. That is why you generally don't hear about paramilitary personnel becoming abductees.

Originally posted by lilblam
Also, how do you know they did not "read your mind", unless you can read theirs and determine that yours had not been read?

If they could read my mind, they would know where I was in the house when they projected the paralysis beam in through my second-story window. I do not need to read their mind in order to ascertain this.

Originally posted by lilblam
How do you know they even NEED to "read your mind" to determine where you are in the house, when they have SO MANY options open to them to determine your exact location?

Now there's a good point. Yes, to my knowledge, they do have a plethora of high-tech surveillance equipment at their disposal.

Nonetheless, many believe the Zetans to be telepathic. I have found no evidence to support this view.

Originally posted by lilblam
How primitive do you deem them to be?

I deem them to be technologically advanced and spiritually primitive.

Even our own government can use current technology that can see through all your walls and see exactly where you are in the house.

That's true.

Originally posted by lilblam
Given our (relative to them) extremely primitive technological state, and already having the ability to SEE inside someone's house (not to mention other technologies based on heat detection, sound detection/analysis, etc), it is extremely naive of you to assume that they did not know where you were!

Then perhaps I was just considered a high risk...and still am.

I also had another incident when I was hit with a paralysis beam but it ricocheted off of my bedroom mirror and it did not have the same degree of effectiveness. At that time, they also had the opportunity to learn through telepathic means that I was not paralyzed or unconscious, to walk through walls to apprehend me, and to teleport me on-board their spacecraft. They did none of these things, which only serves to confirm my hypothesis that they are incapable of these actions or god-like abilities.

Originally posted by lilblam
Actually all that shows is that they did not do so, not that they cannot!

Something stopped them from pursuing it. Take your best guess.

Originally posted by lilblam
In fact, for all you know, they did do it and simply erased the memory so you don't even realise it - that's another possibility. Hypnotic regression, as you suggested to someone, would probably shed some light on this too. But that idea aside, I still see no reason in any of your examples that tells me that they do not possess what you call "god-like abilities", and it seems that what you call "inductive reasoning" is based on nothing but an assumption.

No, it is based on inductive reasoning. You do know what that is...right?

It would not behoove them to implant a screen memory for the purpose you are suggesting.

If I ever come into this forum and state that the Zetans can walk through walls, read my mind, and teleport, rest assured that they did indeed manage to kidnap me and implant screen memories for my submission.

There are other reasons...

My metaphysical investigations, partly as a spiritual medium, has also led me to the understanding that teleportation and telepathy are not possible through technological means. Additionally, the ability to walk through walls is limited to discarnates.

Yet another logical argument: if the Zetans could teleport, they would not need a paralysis beam. They could simply teleport their victim into a highly secured room (high-tech cage). There are many cases of paralysis beam abductions and very little or no testimonial evidence pointing to Zetan teleportation ability.

Originally posted by lilblam
Your hypothesis may very well be that they do not possess those abilities, and as probable as it may seem from our human point of view that they would've used those abilities in those particular circumstances, it is still only our assumption.

One person's assumption is another person's hypothesis, and yet another person's fact.

Originally posted by lilblam
We do not know what their plans for any of us are at any particular moment, what their intentions are at that moment, and just because they do not do something that we EXPECT them to (which is only our presumptuous anticipation based on our opinion of what they SHOULD do, nothing more), does not mean that they cannot do it!

For those of us who do the research and look at the material objectively, we know a great deal about their intentions by their actions over the years -- like their long-term breeding program and their brainwashing.


[edit on 14-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]