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How Do They Enter and Leave ?

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posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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You make good sense Earthsister.




posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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EarthSister, if you don't mind me asking, which I know you don't, do you believe in god? Do you believe in a god or many gods? Do you believe in a higher [even\=/equal] power of sorts? What those questions towards your way have to do with this thread has entirely to do with my own beliefs about this world, reality, dreams, and the universe as a whole. I can honestly say that I "think" I have been abducted by aliens (celestrial beings) or that I have strong ties with them in any way, shape, or form. What I mean by strong ties is my subconcious has constantly been picking up on past-life type stuff that I wish were the case, but nearly seem too good to be true. I don't know if that makes any sense, it might to you EarthSister, and if so, please U2U me so we can further discuss this topic. If not, well my search for the right questions in order to recieve the next to nothing answers are lost in the hopelessness of space. Or so it seems?



posted on Jun, 8 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by 2Super7E123
EarthSister, if you don't mind me asking, which I know you don't, do you believe in god? Do you believe in a god or many gods? Do you believe in a higher [even\=/equal] power of sorts?


Yes, I believe in God. One God of all life. All races believe in God. God is everywhere and made everything and everybody. Advanced races have a more advanced understanding and experience of nature and God then we do yet. We still have mostly dogma. But religion is not God- you can believe in God and not be attached to a religious set of ideology.


I can honestly say that I "think" I have been abducted by aliens (celestrial beings) or that I have strong ties with them in any way, shape, or form. What I mean by strong ties is my subconcious has constantly been picking up on past-life type stuff that I wish were the case, but nearly seem too good to be true.


Yes, that makes sense to me. All life is spirit and can be detected around us- we do that through our own spirit. Advanced races of people can cause us to use our abilities to detect them more than we can achieve on our own. When we become aware of any life form normally around us at any time, we do that by the same mechanism we do it with alien life.

Most humans have had a previous life or a few of them. Normally we stay within our own race and world, even our own family life to life. People who choose to leave their own race to live in another, do it for the purpose of working between worlds. The alien people who we have contact with are still alive and still know us from when we lived with them. They follow us for the same purpose we come.

You can U2U me any time you like.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 11:16 AM
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How do they enter and leave?

Well as much conjecture as goes on, no one has a good answer. We just dont know, but even the question bases the idea that "aliens" are a part of physical reality.

I have a very strong suspicion that these beings only have as much reality as we give them. I believe they rely on us to achieve that state, but not totally.

I have had experiences that I cannot equate to being physically real. I mean to say that I was awake and I was of course real...but they were not. In fact I could barely have any perception of them, if I didnt know what I was looking for. You "feel" them around, if that means anything, but unless you know what to look for, you have little to no perception of them being present.

Something that can alter it's state from physical to non-physical, well...is there any question to me why there is no physical proof? Nope, and I doubt there ever will be "proof", as we would constitute it. It's going to take a new avenue of study on what kind of "proof" is proof positive. I dont think we're able to prove anything as this mystery is literally at the edge of perception.

My experience is that I blink one time and theyre not there, and the next they are. It's that instantaneous, and it's also highly disturbing. I often do not see or perceive all of them, but rather parts of them. Legs are often exceedingly blurred, as are heads sometimes. They are often very quick, but by no means silent. They also smell funny...when I percieve them to be physically as real as I am.

You asked about walking thru walls and such. I read that it's theoretically possible, to have 2 solid objects, and vibrate one at a frequency to space out it's molecules large enough to pass it thru whatever the opposing structures molecular space is.

No kids, dont try putting Mom's back massager thru the wall. It's strictly theory.

But, might "they" have such an ability, whether attributed to them physically or thru whatever technology (if there is such a thing for them) they might have....no clue, but I rule out nothing when dealing with the true question.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by jritzmann]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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before anybody starts to think about *how* they would make it in... one must decide on why they would even bother. as you might know... we have a small planet, a small star (the "Sun") and are lightyears away from anything else, sitting in one of the many outer tendrils of "our" galaxy

[edit on 9-6-2005 by midgetstar]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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IMO "abductions" are not in the physical form. They are a sort of mental re-programming that happens in your sleep for reason's outside of man's current understanding. To give some sort of picture or label if you will to the event a simulation occurs in your brain as it attempts to understand what happened to it. Thus the images of aliens and a strange abduction seem to be the most plausible for what happens.

As for why you get re-programmed I am not sure, but usually there is a fundamental change in a person life path because of it. Most will never know enough their life path to connect the dots as to what happened in their "brain wiring" to understand the ramifications it has on their lives.

Maybe its GOD trying to alter your path because of a not forseen need in the future. An interaction that must occur that may other wise not happen without this "event" happening in your memory, leading you to try and discover what happened to you, in turn making your path cross with another individual on maybe a topic that is not even related to your abduction experience but rather that curiosity brings you to a site like this and by "chance" you see a topic that you want to comment on, and maybe without your knowledge something you say, maybe some insight or personal experience that you share with us affects the "subject" person in a way that GOD needed to be done. To allow that person then to continue on and affect in some manner some other event.

Human's have free will, and even if GOD is all seeing, man can still defy GOD's precepts for us and sometimes in the betterment of all mankind certain "alterations" must happen to avoid some sort of negative impact on the grand scheme.....

Trillions and Trillions of casual yet interconnected points of contact is what the human experiment is. WE are the learning computer. Each human, each animal all create sensor information that builds the massive "database" of life and events and consequencial results. IF this then THAT, IF that then THIS, IF this then also THIS and THAT, etc

Programming language for computers is a reflection of the natural programming that already exists in nature, just the natural kind is far more complex with far many more variables



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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The thread I started on Colares, Brazil has many testimonies from eyewitness's that describe in some detail how their homes were invaded.

If you haven’t read about what happened there , its IMO worth your time , even if you only what to know how they might invade a residence.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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Robert-
Neat theory, I see what ya mean. Altho the experience does happen in sleep, it doesnt always, but it doesnt really matter. The idea is an outside consciousness effecting us, and our perception of it.

Have to wonder why spacemen. Altho we have been innundated with the "alien" face for years now, so contamination ensues.

I personally do see it as physical at times, due to several people seeing what I've seen while with me, and even experienced the same things. However, it was only after we'd been talking about the subject at detail...now dont think it was a misperception because of the talking subject matter. It was pretty undeniable stuff, seen by 2-3 people in plain view. So...I think there's a physical part to it. Or at least a perceptable as such.


[edit on 9-6-2005 by jritzmann]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Conclusions gleaned from counseling abductees, reading up on eyewitness testimony, and from my own experiences, is that physical aliens are behind the kidnappings.

The common method of operation for the Zetan-aliens is to first paralyze the victim. For those who are inside homes or vehicles, the Greys do this with an intensely bright white floodlight that causes paralysis upon partial contact. For example, if you touch it, your whole arm could go numb. Full contact in the white floodlight results in being knocked out. This electronically produced white light is far brighter than a police helicopter searchlight.

For pinpoint targeting, they use a sky blue laser-like beam that has the same effect of paralysis and knocking the person unconscious. This is what knocked out Travis Walton in the forest and whose abduction was illustrated (with a certain degree of creative license) in the film, "Fire In The Sky."

I had the white floodlight paralysis light enter my own home in the early 1990s via a second story bathroom window. It was so bright that it also illuminated the adjoining master bedroom. Our backyard was absolutely quiet. Everyone knew to avoid contact with this paralysis beam and there was no missing time or abduction.

Once they get the person, they keep them sedated and implant screen memories, in part to brainwash them into believing that the Zetans can walk through walls and have telepathic ability (read minds). A prisoner that believes that his captors have godlike abilities is less likely to fight back or attempt escape; this is the reason behind the psychological manipulation.

The Greys can pick locks easily but they won't enter a home or vehicle unless they know that their intended is either paralyzed or unconscious. Avoid contact with the beams and you avoid getting kidnapped.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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If they implant screen memories, then nothing gleaned from any experience can fully be accepted as "real and true".

Bottom line is, it could all be a screen...and most likely is.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
If they implant screen memories, then nothing gleaned from any experience can fully be accepted as "real and true".

Bottom line is, it could all be a screen...and most likely is.


On the contrary, the process of implanting screen memories is not one-hundred percent effective. Sometimes, years later, the real memories start bubbling to the surface of consciousness.

Additionally, the surrounding circumstance of an abduction (e.g., people who were near the victim but who were not directly targeted) can often result in being able to quickly identify an implanted screen memory.

I have come to conclude that if you talk to those who believe that they were abducted by Greys (especially those with physical evidence like unexplainable scars, MRI-confirmed implants, etc.) and who also think that they the aliens have telepathic ability, that the latter belief is the direct result of a screen memory.

See Abductee Brainwashing.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Is possible, which I know it is, for one to be abducted without remembering anything about the abduction? I mean lets say someone was abducted right now and could not account for the occurence until some flash back of a nightmare years later. How come this person could not remember of his/her abduction? What could have possibly triggered him/her remembering this possible account through the means of either a horrible nightmare, peaceful dream, or just plane old remembering a past time that seemed too real to be fake, which was never thought of before?

My questions are directly related to the possibilty that I feel as if I have been abducted once, maybe twice, or possibly several times. I wish I knew when, why, and how. Not so much who (aliens) and what (was I actually on a spacecraft). If I was abducted, then through these recent (a couple of years or so) memories of my accounts, I can honestly say I wasn't being "Taken" by the a-typical Zetan's (Greys). If I was, then they really masked/cloaked (illusions) their selves really well.

Maybe one of you can help me out and maybe not. All I care about right now is finding the right questions in order to recieve the more reasonable answers. One day...



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by 2Super7E123
Is possible, which I know it is, for one to be abducted without remembering anything about the abduction?


In the short term...yes.


Originally posted by 2Super7E123
I mean lets say someone was abducted right now and could not account for the occurence until some flash back of a nightmare years later. How come this person could not remember of his/her abduction? What could have possibly triggered him/her remembering this possible account through the means of either a horrible nightmare, peaceful dream, or just plane old remembering a past time that seemed too real to be fake, which was never thought of before?


Oftentimes, seeing an illustration of a Grey or other alien can help trigger one's memory of an encounter with same. This may initially start out with an unexplainable feeling of fear and anxiety attributed to the image. Dreams can also play a role in remembering certain facets of an abduction.


Originally posted by 2Super7E123
My questions are directly related to the possibilty that I feel as if I have been abducted once, maybe twice, or possibly several times. I wish I knew when, why, and how. Not so much who (aliens) and what (was I actually on a spacecraft). If I was abducted, then through these recent (a couple of years or so) memories of my accounts, I can honestly say I wasn't being "Taken" by the a-typical Zetan's (Greys). If I was, then they really masked/cloaked (illusions) their selves really well.


There are accounts whereby someone is abducted but never actually sees the faces of his or her kidnappers. If the kidnappers keep the person knocked out during the entire episode, then it is very hard to find out who was responsible.


Originally posted by 2Super7E123
Maybe one of you can help me out and maybe not. All I care about right now is finding the right questions in order to recieve the more reasonable answers. One day...


I suggest that you find yourself a hypnotherapist referred to you from an abductee support group. Tape all the sessions for your own personal analysis and record. Avoid any and all drug treatments as these can also be an obstacle for the retrieval of clear memories.



[edit on 9-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by jritzmann
If they implant screen memories, then nothing gleaned from any experience can fully be accepted as "real and true".

Bottom line is, it could all be a screen...and most likely is.


On the contrary, the process of implanting screen memories is not one-hundred percent effective. Sometimes, years later, the real memories start bubbling to the surface of consciousness.

Additionally, the surrounding circumstance of an abduction (e.g., people who were near the victim but who were not directly targeted) can often result in being able to quickly identify an implanted screen memory.

I have come to conclude that if you talk to those who believe that they were abducted by Greys (especially those with physical evidence like unexplainable scars, MRI-confirmed implants, etc.) and who also think that they the aliens have telepathic ability, that the latter belief is the direct result of a screen memory.

See Abductee Brainwashing.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]


I dont see how anyone can know theyre not 100% effective, nor that the "recovered" memories are any more reliable then screens...could be a screen on top of screen. I just dont get into the nuts and bolts of MRI implants and such because unless theyre removed and scientifically studied and found to be truly unique by more then one scientist (independant) they arent worth a damn. Most if not all are found to be common objects, and bodily fragments. Scars again dont do anything, theyre just scars, and totally unreliable for data.

I dunno, we come to much different conclusions, if any.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
I dont see how anyone can know theyre not 100% effective, nor that the "recovered" memories are any more reliable then screens...


Because (for example) there are accounts of groups of people who start to have dreams and trace memories of their abduction (independently of one another) years after they were made to forget that it ever happened.

This occurred to a group of men who went camping and fishing together. When they were out on a boat fishing on a lake at night, they all saw a bright light and then blacked out. When they awoke, they had no memory of what had happened and their campfire on the beach had burned down to cinders -- indicating that hours had gone by since they were knocked unconscious. Years later they all started to slowly remember details of the encounter and they eventually got together and corroborated the details of the abduction.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
I just dont get into the nuts and bolts of MRI implants and such because unless theyre removed and scientifically studied and found to be truly unique by more then one scientist (independant) they arent worth a damn. Most if not all are found to be common objects, and bodily fragments. Scars again dont do anything, theyre just scars, and totally unreliable for data.


An unexplainable scar can indicate a great deal depending upon where it is and its particular configuration.

I remember seeing a documentary that addressed an implant that was in a man's leg. They removed the object, had it analyzed, and the conclusion was that the metal alloy was not native to the planet. Then you have those implants in the brain which Terran surgeons attempt to remove but cannot because they actually dig themselves deeper when exposed. Implants in the skull are considered to be more serious than those in the arms and legs.

Be grateful that you are not an abductee.

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by EarthSister
elevatedone

The alien beings come into your house three ways, naturally, by technology, and both.


There are many scenarios. What you mentioned are all possibilities, another thing is implanting false memories making you think that they entered the house, when they did not. Another possibility is government faking alien abductions to confuse and discredit the true abductees, etc. Lots of things going on for lots of reasons, using lots of different ways!

Another thought to consider, is aliens see reality with more "dimentions" (using the term mathematically, not as people generally use it as "alternate reality"). So in fact, they may not perceive the molecular structure of your house as you do, it may not even be "real" to them, and so what is walls and barriers to you in your 3rd dimentional perspective may not exist at all in such a way from 4th dimentional perspective. A perfect sphere in 3rd dimention, or a cube, something that looks enclosed on all sides, may be entirely different and very "open" from other perspectives. And I don't just mean some sort of dimentional "holes" to enter through, but just that the shapes will look entirely different, something we cannot fathom with 3rd dimentional perspective at this point (which is why it is reasonable for beings on a higher level to say that you won't understand).



Usually, by body, the human does not want to go with alien life, or even meet them or talk with them because the human is so barely physically aware of it and so limited in understanding about it.

Yes, but since many of these beings, that people assume are "aliens from another planet", don't care about free will, they selfishly kidnap/abduct who they want, and excuse it as "oh yeah, we had an pre-arranged agreement with your soul". Of course you have no way of really knowing if they are lying or not, and they realise this, but they do not care. They assume you just blindly accept this reasoning and let them do whatever they want with you, because it is "for your own good". Of course the part that is lost on most people in such a situation is, nothing that violates someone else's free will is "for their own good" - because good is subjective, and when you seek to interfere with someone else's existance and change something about it, you are denying them a choice to learn at their own pace in their own time in their own way, imposing your will on theirs.



But by spirit they are already well aware of everything that is happening and why, and most humans who have contact want to participate and help as much as they can.

Usually that happens after the human is brainwashed into thinking that it is "for their own good". Which is not unlike brainwashing that is done to prisoners of war, that at first try to fight their abductors, but later are convinced that this is for the good of all, for their own good, and it is just best all around, and so after all is said and done, the prisoner often converts and now works very happily with those who he once considered to be the "enemy". But this does not change that they were forcibly taken and brainwashed! The question is of course, what ARE the aliens doing, what IS their agenda, is there any evidence that indicates this - other than what the aliens themselves say?

A lot of people helped and participated in Nazi Germany too, and I only bring this up to make a point: just because many people are happy with it and are convinced something is a great thing, it does not mean much at all, it does not make this "thing" objectively "good", and in fact, it can be the most harmful and limiting and deceptive thing in the world - mass support never meant "truth" or legitimacy etc. And so, just because a lot of people may be happily helping aliens do whatever it is they do, does not mean the aliens are not unsympathetic and selfish psychopaths who are seeking to control this planet, and because they are so much more intelligent than we are, they are easily able to fool the many gullible people with lies like "we just want to help humanity" or with rubbish about "love and light" where they mix truth with lies. Already there is TONS of evidence to suggest that there are beings who are NOT here to "help" at all. Besides the obvious, which is just abducting people, you have the bull# explanation that aliens are supposedly giving people.

One such thing is, "we want to help humanity". The first thing to remember about helping someone, is that you cannot truly help anyone who does not ask for it, otherwise you are serving your own agenda. So "wanting" to help is a big sign that they won't actually help, but that they have a personal motive and agenda instead of purely assisting those who ASK, which should not be limited to "humanity" because we are their "favorite" or some crap like that! Service to others entities don't play favorite, and service to self entities only serve themselves. Another explanation sometimes given is that they are helping humanity advance or evolve, or in New Age circules, it is "ascend". Whatever the case may be, who said anyone needs help evolving or "ascending"? These "aliens" think we will just take their word for it and that there is no other option, that their "help" and "interference" is somehow "necessary". But what happened to LESSONS? What happened to making mistakes and maybe sometimes even FAILING in order to LEARN? It only hurts humanity to have someone show up and "fix" all our problems for us, we learn nothing, and give up our free will to them to "take care of us" and so we become dependant on THEM for survival and for sustaining our society, because we are unable to do so on our own. And so instead of learning, they are preventing us from learning our own lessons and keeping us in a shell of their own game, making us reliant on them, and effectively ridding us of our free will and halting our progress as a race and on an individual basis.

So personally, I'd like to learn the lessons that this world has to offer, lessons about interpersonal relationships, lessons about psychopathic liars, lessons about politicians and the nature of "government", lessons about all such things that exist in this world to learn. And I personally do not want aliens to interfere and remove these lessons from me, just because they think they are entitled to do so or are "divinely" ordained, and so I have no say in it.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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Through your backdoor.



posted on Jun, 9 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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lilblam

You've studied a lot of material, put a lot of thought into all of this and drawn absolutely logical conclusions from what you have learned. Nobody could blame you for your position.

Obviously you would not trust anybody of another race from another world. That's ok, your choice. But have you ever met any of them yourself?



posted on Jun, 10 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by EarthSister
Obviously you would not trust anybody of another race from another world. That's ok, your choice. But have you ever met any of them yourself?

Do you trust the US government? Remember, the US government (and all governments) are obligated to always tell you what you want to hear, always sound noble, honest, and good. Always act like they do everything in YOUR best interests, and that they have some deep care for the people, etc. It is very easy to trust the government, and in fact, a great number of people do trust the government because they are convinced by what the government tells them. But of course, if you dig a little deeper, if you think a little more critically, you begin to see a "dark" side of governments, and suddenly you realise they are the direct opposite of everything they claim to be, they are liars, murderers, they spin and spit our propaganda and twist the "truth" to their favor, they are very much selfish - and do NOT care about the "people" other than as "subjects" to be ruled and controlled, and our will manipulated. But this is NOT what they say (obviously), and often, this is NOT what they DO, since they want to CONVINCE us that they are in fact good and have our best interests at heart. So yes you see them donating to charities, giving money for projects to feed the hungry, and other charades to create the impression that they really care. But it is something called "mask of sanity", which is merely a mask, nothing else. If you were a cunning empathy-devoid psychopath, and wanted to rule, how would YOU go about it? Of course, through deception, by fooling the people that you are something that you are not. And who is better at lying than a psychopath, who has no empathy or guilt, who can lie with a straight face, and who has no "limit" to how far they will go to grab power and control? It is not surprising that this world is ruled by psychopaths, because the rest of us cannot compete with someone who has no "lines" he won't cross, someone who is an expert at manipulation and deception, and there are MANY such "psychopaths", and most of them go undetected because they convince the rest of us that they are "just like us", that they care about the world and everyone in it, that they just want to help. So the question is, how do you tell who is honest and true, and who is a cunning liar?

Now let's take this one step further. If the governments can fool SO MANY people, and the governments are HUMAN - what about aliens who have intelligence incomprehensibly above ours? If a bunch of cunning but arrogant and still ignorant human neocons in the White House can fool the whole world, or at least a huge part of the world, would you naively assume that aliens, who are infinitely more intelligenct and cunning, cannot do the same but in a MUCH better and effective manner? Even the Bible warns that Satan can appear as the "angel of light" - and it was a great analogy to explain that only in Hollywood movies does evil look like evil and act like evil - in the real world deception is the name of the game, visual, auditory, and on many other levels. A lot of people "know" G. W. Bush too, and are convinced he is intelligent, kind, and a great leader! A lot of people who KNOW him personally think this! But those are empty words to those who see objective reality and who critically think while keeping their biases and "sacred cows" at the door, which is oh-so-difficult given the years of propaganda and conditioning each one of us undergoes.

But now let's add to this a basic understanding of the universe, that it is composed of 2 sides: Ying and Yang. The Darkness and the Light. The Service to SELF entities, and Service to OTHERS. There are 2 paths you can go, because of free will - down or up. Entropy or Creativity. Greater non-being, or greater BEING. And so, if you do not see that the universe is a 2-way street and understand what this implies, how can you accurately judge anyone, when your judgement will end up being subjective and thus null and void? It is easy to call something "great" and "good" and "nice" and "helpful", in fact, historically, most things that were in fact the direct opposite of all these things were called "good" and "great", of course to FOOL the naive with happy words, and to control. Nazi Germany was also the greatest thing ever, until people began to wake up and see it for what it is. But the question is, how did so many people (which includes the present day world) get fooled so completely into believing the opposite of what was the objective reality? Hitler was compared to Jesus, he was so great and wonderful and loving! How can someone so loving and great in reality be the most evil and deceptive psychopath to walk the Earth? Better question is, how can we learn to SEE this deception before it is complete and before it is too late? This requires not just a critical mind and always questioning and thinking about everything, but basic KNOWLEDGE of objective reality, understanding of human nature, and being able to read between the lines, which includes reading between the lines of someone's actions (not just words).

But going back to the question of aliens, having some understanding of STO (service to others) and STS (service to self) and the "modus operandi" of both sides (government being a great example of the deceptive, entropic, STS forces) - how does anyone then have blind faith in, ANYTHING, especially intelligences that are far beyond our own, which are capable of deception on unfathomable levels that would be infinitely harder to spot than deception of our own governments? They can appear as the most kind and enlightened beings of love, but can be the direct OPPOSITE in reality - the question is, once again, HOW CAN WE TELL? The devil, as they say, is in the details. Understand the CORE, (how STS works and what it is, and STO) and you are well on your way to SEEing the unseen, when many others will be fooled.

So let me be clear, I do not "trust" anybody, and it is my understanding that anyone who trusts anyone is foolish and naive. Here is my reasoning. It does not mean I suspect everyone of "wrongdoing" or that I am paranoid in any way, I make no assumptions about anyone's nature or intentions - I seek to KNOW and SEE everyone as objectively as possible, without attachment or bias or wishful thinking. However, to me, "trust" means blind acceptance that someone or something (alien, human, whatever) has your best interests at heart. Trust is an assumption, we make the assumption that (whoever it is we trust) is ALWAYS honest to us (is anyone EVER always honest to anyone else, or even to themselves?), and will not "betray" us in terms of doing things in THEIR best interest instead of ours (Again, how often do "best of friends" or lovers run into conflicts of interests, which end up in fights or breaking up of friendships and relationships? Despite the wishful thinking that the friendship (or love relationship, whatever) will last forever.

Why make such a blind assumption about anyone, when it is the same mistake that humanity has always been making and ended up being led around by their noses by all sorts of people and beings as a result? There are a few people that I "reasonably trust", which means, I know them well enough to trust my KNOWLEDGE of them and who they are, but only in a probabilistic, NOT ABSOLUTE, way. So I assign a high probability to their integrity, but I also realise they are human and they WILL act in their best interests as ALL humans do since we are ALL service to self, and I also do not expect them to always be honest with me (or themselves). There are some people that I know that ARE working towards service to others and have been all their lives, so the probability that they WILL be honest with themselves and with others, and that they WILL act in the best interests of ALL involved is EXTREMELY HIGH, but never absolutely 100%, ever. Of course, anyone who is not honest with him/herself cannot possibly be honest with others - if you lie to yourself about who you are and "where you stand" in life, you're not going to suddenly tell the truth to someone else (since you already convinced yourself that the lie is the truth, so you may THINK you are telling the truth, but only after you already lied to yourself).

It is my understanding that "wishful thinking" is the downfall of man. Wishful thinking, assumptions, belief, blind faith (all being the same thing), is the only thing that allows humans to be controlled by deception, or to be deceived in the first place. You cannot be deceived if you do not blindly accept anything, believe anything, or assume someone's integrity will always last. It does not mean that you cannot work with probabilities, because in fact, probabilities is all that we truly have - everything else being wishful thinking. So I can assign a high probability that someone will be honest, but NEVER just "trust" in any absolute way. Perhaps you also do not trust in absolute way, perhaps you do, I don't know.

But my point is, knowledge is all that matters in terms of deciding what the objective reality about anyone truly is. Anyone can trust anyone else for any reason, and in fact, gaining someone's TRUST or LOVE is the number one way to deceive, use, manipulate, and trick people into doing your bidding - very often it is unconscious and mechanical, many people do it not with intent to harm, but just naturally because "life" just works that way in this world. Consider that 99% of all relationships (man-woman) are dominated by either one partner or the other, VERY rarely is it truly equal. By dominated I mean, he/she uses the attachment/love of the other to have them do your bidding, and have the final word as a result. So it is wise to always be critical and question everything, to always THINK about everything someone does or says critically, and try to understand OBJECTIVELY whether there is "hidden agendas" involved, whether it is a manipulation (however subtle), and so in the end, whether that entity/person/alien/whoever is on the UPWARD path of truth and service to others, or DOWNWARD path of LIES and service to SELF. Being able to discern that is the most important thing we can learn to do, because once we can make this distinction, we will no longer read FALSE SIGNS like someone being nice or telling us things that sound true and good as evidence that they are indeed what they claim, and their intentions are "pure".

Of course, there are some "aliens" (using that word losely) that are STO and some that are STS. But STS always tries to act like it is STO, and it is only through knowledge of what is STO and STS do you detect deception, do you truly SEE when someone is a cunning manipulator, when someone is lying. KNOWLEDGE, not wishful thinking or belief or assumption, is what allows us to advance, and to make accurate judgements about the true nature of the universe, and true nature of those we encounter in our lives, be they human or not.
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Sorry for the length of the post, but I think those things I mentioned were important enough to mention. These are my understandings at this time, please consider them and think about them carefully, and decide for yourself whether there is truth in what I say. I am always open to being wrong, so all comments, thoughts, etc are welcome


-Mike

[edit on 10-6-2005 by lilblam]



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