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Catholic Myths/Misconceptions...

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posted on May, 23 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Since there are so many "fun" posts this weekend....
here is a dose of reality...

Catholic Myth..1: Catholics Worship Mary

So, we greatly honor the Blessed Virgin Mary but do not worship her. Adoration is due to God alone, but Mary may be honored. And, as the Mother of the Word Incarnate, she is accorded the highest honor due a creature. Yet, she is still a creature and cannot be worshipped as the Holy Trinity is worshipped. It seems like a fine line to many people, but it's still a line the Church draws.

Catholic Myth ..2: Catholics Don't Believe the Bible

This is another biggie, especially since many fundamentalist or evangelical Protestant groups say they "believe in the Bible." So, anyone who doesn't believe like they do automatically must "not believe in the Bible!" It's not that simple of course. The Bible is a diverse collection of books full of diverse stories, concepts, and ideas. It is not a systematic theology. Thus, it must be interpreted. Catholics do believe the Bible and have the highest regard for it; we just interpret it differently than the evangelical Protestants.God is the author of Scripture, it is God's word, it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and it teaches God's truth without error. This sounds like Catholics have a pretty strong belief in the Bible to me! Of course, the Catholic Church believes that the Bible is interpreted by the Church, but this is not arbitrary. The Scriptures are interpreted by the Spirit working through Christ's Church, the same Spirit who inspired the writers of Sacred Scripture, the same Advocate whom Jesus promised would guide us into all Truth (John 16:13). Catholics believe that promise was fulfilled and is still being fulfilled today.

Catholic Myth ..3: All Non-Catholics Are Hellbound

I've heard it said many times: The Catholic Church believes everyone else is going to hell. Unfortunately many Protestants are more than happy to return this supposed favor. However, the Catholic Church does not teach that all Protestants are going to hell. Nor does she teach that all non-Christians are going to hell. The Catholic Church recognizes that many in other churches, by their baptism, are rightly called Christians. These communities have elements of the Truth and God can use them as a means of salvation. So, the Catholic Church doesn't believe all non-Catholics are hellbound. Those who legitimately don't know the necessity of joining the Catholic Church and don't reject her can be saved even while in their own communities. Yet, this salvation and grace come from the Catholic Church and does not negate missionary activity towards Protestants and non-Christians. Above all, we must remember that the Catholic Church often tells us who is in heaven (the Saints), but isn't in the business of telling us who is in hell. That's God's call.

Catholic Myth ..4: Catholics Aren't Allowed to Read the Bible

It's a common myth that Catholics aren't supposed to read the Bible or that the Church actively works to keep Bibles out of the hands of the laity. This myth, of course, is false. The Catholic Church not only doesn't prohibit her members from reading the Bible, but she forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful to read the Bible! Plus, unlike many Protestant Churches, a large amount of Scripture is read during the Sunday mass. Each service has an Old Testament reading, a Psalm, a reading from an epistle, and a section of a Gospel. This works out to about 2-4 chapters from the Bible each week. Also, the whole liturgy of the mass is filled with references to the Scriptures.

Catholic Myth ..5: We Think the Pope is God

Catholics do NOT believe that the Pope is God. The Pope is a man, albeit one that we Catholics believe has been called to the highest office in the Church and when exercising that office has special gifts and prerogatives. So, why do we call him holy father then?

Even the word pope comes from the Latin for papa, i.e. dad. The pope functions as an earthly father to God’s family, much like St. Joseph functioned as a foster father to Jesus while on earth, or a child has his own earthly father. None of these take away from God’s ultimate and supreme position as Father. In fact, especially if the earthly father is holy and has integrity, then God’s role as Father is more clearly modeled and understood. In this way, John Paul II especially has revealed God’s love to so many people.
So, why do we call him “holy” father? This is related to why we call the Church “holy” in the creeds. In spite of a membership of sinners, she is holy because her head, Christ, is holy. he can be called holy because of his office as Pope. Once again, the holiness that comes from this office comes not from him or his actions, but only from the holiness and grace of Christ, which we believe he gives to all in the Church who seek him.
In conclusion, please do not confuse what we are saying. However, we speak with affection towards the PopeI because to Catholics, he is our spiritual earthly father, one who has graciously modeled the love of the Father in heaven to us.

So there you go.




posted on May, 23 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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If theres any more myths youd like to add feel free to do so.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Thank you for addressing that.
Since you offered, I have only one more if its ok.

Myth #6
Catholics think that Mary is Co-Redeemer

If you can settle that one for me, I will appreciate it greatly



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Myth #6
Catholics think that Mary is Co-Redeemer

If you can settle that one for me, I will appreciate it greatly


I am assuming this is coming from my thread about an apparition of Mary. NO Mary cannot, all she can do is steer us in the right direction to the lord. Like I said earlier she is just a very honored women who had the emaculate conception. The miracles that are performed in places of apparition are through God. Mary alone cannot do anything.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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I had a longer message ready to post, but my computer decided to eat it. So the longer post will have to wait.

Myth 6:

Catholic perspective.

Personally, reading this perspective, I am left wondering why these titles are reserved for Mary alone. It seems to me, that any man who through their faith leads another to God is worthy of the title "Co-redeemer". Though I question the need for such a title.



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 05:11 PM
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Number 10 explains it well in that site Rapheal



10. Mary does not stand before God as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. In truth, only Christ stands before God to redeem, mediate, and advocate. The Virgin Mary humbly kneels before Christ, in worship of Him, and assists Christ fully in His work of redemption, mediation, advocacy.


Assisting is not co-redeeming



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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Good enough then.

Could you expand on this part a little please. It seems like everything is settled, and then this is said which seems to be the opposite.


assists Christ fully in His work of redemption, mediation, advocacy.


How does she assist fully in redemption?
Mediation?


EDIT:
Thank you for making this thread. I also appreciate your patience in the matter.



[edit on 23-5-2005 by jake1997]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Ill get back to you on that question once Ive done some research jake1997 because to tell you the truth Im not to sure about it myself.

So for now if theres anything any1 would like to know about our doctrine here you go
Catechism of the Catholic Church

Edit: Answer
Well she carried Our Redeemer in her womb and she was the first to cooperate with God's plan to send us Jesus to redeem us. I believe if it weren't for her FIAT [her yes] Jesus wouldn't have been able to be born, but who knows. Other than that I guess I would have to look it up in the catechism.

Edit again: A better look
Wholly united with her Son . . .

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";502 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."503
965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."504 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."505

We also see with the prophecy of Simeon: " your own soul a sword shall pierce. Her heart expiated for the sins of the world and for the salvation of souls along with Jesus Christ at the foot of the Cross. She united her sufferings to Jesus crucified and expiated for us , hence helped in the redemption of all mankind too. The Hearts of Jesus and Mary are United forever .We have special devotions to the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary.




[edit on 5/23/2005 by Croat56]

[edit on 5/23/2005 by Croat56]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
Catholic Myth ..3: All Non-Catholics Are Hellbound

Nor does she teach that all non-Christians are going to hell. Those who legitimately don't know the necessity of joining the Catholic Church and don't reject her can be saved even while in their own communities.
Yet, this salvation and grace come from the Catholic Church and does not negate missionary activity towards Protestants and non-Christians.

Above all, we must remember that the Catholic Church often tells us who is in heaven (the Saints),



I have had a priest tell me first hand that protestants go to hell and see shows reporting the written evidence stating that this is the official teaching of the Catholic Church. If you don't believe that great, but I believe it is the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Check on this as will I.

I have a real big problem with you saying that salvation and grace come form the Catholic Church. Salvation and grace come from Jesus Christ. Maybe that's what you meant but if not then we are in total disagreement on that.

Also saints don't have to be dead to be a saint. Why does the RCC teach this?

edit- You mentioned that the RCC doesn't teach that all non-christians are going to hell. I also have a problem with that one.

Salvation is in Christ alone. 1. You must be born again. 2. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. 3. There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we MUST be saved. That's pretty clear.

[edit on 23-5-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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Could you explain papal infallibility?

This is going to be a troublemaker, but that is not what I am intending with this one. I am looking to discuss so hopefully we can state beliefs and find complete truth, in calmness. The visions of Mary. The Bible tells us satan can appear as an angel of light and deception will be a key in the end times so, how can these visions be upheld as truth knowing what satan can do and with deception rampant?


Sorry, third question. Where is the Holy Sprit in regards to catholic followers and in regards to other christians?

[edit on 23-5-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 23-5-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on May, 23 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
Assisting is not co-redeeming


What I said was based on 11. "Mary is truly co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix." I fail to see why any of these titles could not be applied to any man who through their faith leads another to God. Though I question the need for such titles.


@Jake1997
If I were to try to explain, I would say that in the very least, her (and the saint's-- the "Church in Heaven", if you will) heavenly prayers are "joined" with the prayers of the earthly Church to form one prayer from one Universal Church. Beyond that, I would not choose to speculate.

Edit: While I was preparing this, Croat56, gave answers from the CCC. I'll have to examine closely.


Now for that longer post:

Myth 1:

I wrote this in a U2U before you made this topic:

However, that is not to say that all Roman Catholics worship Mary. There is a line that needs be crossed, and I do not believe many have crossed that line. On the other hand, I am not certain many Catholics are aware the line exists in more than just a passing reference.

Personally, I think the RCC Doctrine leaves this line a bit vague.

For example, one could think "Because Mary is a creature, any honor I give to her could not be honor due only to God."

This obfuscates the line completely.

On the other hand, one could think "Because Mary is a creature, any honor due only to God can not be honor given to Mary."

This requires the knowledge of what honor is due only to God.

An example of this is the "complete surrender" point I was making in your other thread. I believe "complete surrender" is a honor reserved for God alone, and could/should/would not be given to any other.


Myth 2:

I think the actual concern here is that the RCC has traditions which are not found in scripture. Personally, I have no problem with tradition. I do have a problem when tradition becomes "required for salvation", as is the case when a tradition becomes a dogma.

For example, the Immaculate Conception has no direct support in scripture. But, I would argue that this traditional belief does not contradict that which is taught in the bible, as there is no evidence that God could not accomplish such a feat. However, this was made a Dogma in the Catholic Church.

I would argue that such a tradition is not appropriate as a dogma. First of my arguments would be, my belief or disbelief in this traditional teaching is in no way connected with my salvation. But, by definition of Dogma and the role of the Church, if I were a Catholic, I would be guilty of a mortal sin (no heaven for me) if I did not believe it blindly.


Myth three:

The Catholic Church also does not teach that non-Catholics will go to heaven. Since the vast majority of non-catholics do not believe in the existance of Purgatory, it is rather difficult to explain to a non-Catholic where they will go. Your last argument falls a bit flat. If it is God's call, "who goes to hell", is it not also his call, "who goes to heaven"?

However, Myth three is not entirely a myth.

There exists a Dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church there is no Salvation). The interpretation of this Dogma, is directly dependant on one's definition of "the Church".

Edit: Another Catholic Perspective..


Myth four:

The reading of the bible was never prohibited throughout the whole church. However, it was prohibited in areas that certain heresies were taking place. For example, during the condemnation of the Albigensian heresy, the Council of Toulouse (a local council in 1229 AD) did prohibit the laity from reading the bible. Though, this is likely an extreme case in order to prevent the spread of "bootleg" copies of the bible which may have contained intentional alterations.

The Catholic Church does however restrict the reading of the bible to only approved translations. This does assume the Church can be trusted to render an accurate translation. Otherwise, you are reading the Bible according to the doctrine of the RCC.

[edit on 23-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]


Originally posted by dbrandt
The visions of Mary. The Bible tells us satan can appear as an angel of light and deception will be a key in the end times so, how can these visions be upheld as truth knowing what satan can do and with deception rampant?


I would argue that they should not be discarded out of hand. As God could, if He chooses, send Mary to visit.

But, I would also argue, that many of the early visitations were accepted far too easily, which set a precedent for "legit Marian visitations".

[edit on 23-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]

[edit on 24-5-2005 by Raphael_UO]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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N/M

[edit on 5/24/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
I am left wondering why these titles are reserved for Mary alone. It seems to me, that any man who through their faith leads another to God is worthy of the title "Co-redeemer". Though I question the need for such a title.


Yep. You could be co-redeemer. Exactly right. You question the
need for such a title? Fine. Don't use it. It doesn't matter.

'All generations shall call me blessed' was the prophecy in Luke,
and it is true. People wish to honor the Mother of Christ. There
is no harm in admitting her roll. I'll acknowledge YOUR roll in such
a manner if you like. It doesn't make a difference if anyone
acknowledges it or not. However it is TRUTH, so to acknowledge
truth always helps people understand God and His plan better.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
I have had a priest tell me first hand that protestants go to hell

The priest was right. Protestants go to hell. So do Catholics.
So do Mormons. So do Muslims. There are people in hell from
EVERY religious group. The road to hell is wide. The path to
heaven isn't. However, if the priest said to you that all protestants
go to hell because they aren't in the Catholic church... then he was
wrong. The OFFICIAL teaching of the Catholic church is that
protestants CAN go to heaven. It's just EASIER to go to heaven
when you have all the truth and all the sacraments - which the
Catholic church has. You don't believe this? Fine. Be protestant
or whatever else you want to be. It's the CATHOLIC belief that
the Catholic church has all the truth and that the myriad of protestant
groups have only some - an incomplete picture. Of course, if you ask
the protestant groups you'll get much the same answer - that their
particular group has all the right answers and everyone else is short.
Some say that all Catholics are going to hell. I have had Baptists tell
me that everyone who isn't Baptist is going to hell. I have had
Church of Christ people tell me that anyone who uses musical
instruments in a church are going to hell. Everyone thinks they are
the only ones with all the truth. Amazing ... Even the Muslims think
that their book is from God and perfect and anyone who doesn't
believe exactly like them are going to hell (and they have hundreds
of different groups who all think differently as well as the Protestants)
Here are what the early church fathers had to say and
the Catholic teaching -
www.catholic.com...


I have a real big problem with you saying that salvation and
grace come form the Catholic Church. Salvation and grace come from
Jesus Christ.

Yep. You are right. It comes from Christ. And Christ set up His church
on Earth with Sacraments. You can receive salvation and grace while
outside His church. But the complete truth and sacraments are IN His
church and thus it is easier to receive them. This is the Catholic teaching.
If you don't believe this. Fine. Be protestant (or whatever). But this
is what the Church teaches.

Also saints don't have to be dead to be a saint.
Why does the RCC teach this?

It doesn't. Officially speaking you or I could be a saint. It is only after
death when they can't 'fall' that the church recognizes them as such.
To point to a living person and say 'he/she is a saint' is rather dangerous
in the mind of the church. There is a risk that people will follow that
person and if the person 'falls', then those following him/her will fall as
well. Right into hell. It's best to wait to acknowledge people are
saints until after death when there is no danger of following a living
person who can fall. (Look at Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, etc.)



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Could you explain papal infallibility?

The pope can sin. Don't think that 'infallibility' means that once he
is proclaimed pope he can't sin. He does. He goes to confession.
PJPII went to confession every week.

Papal infallibility has to do with making doctornal pronouncements
'ex cathreda'. Matt 16:18 has been interpreted to be that the
Church can not make doctornal errors because Christ has
promised that Satan will not prevail against it.

This has Catholic teachings and readings about what
the early church fathers said about the papacy -
includes infallibility -
www.catholic.com...


[edit on 5/24/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
The Catholic Church does however restrict the reading of the bible to only approved translations. This does assume the Church can be trusted to render an accurate translation.


I certainly hope the Catholic Church checks different bibles and
put's it's stamp of approval on some, and not others. Have you
seen some of the crap that's out there? The inclusive language
'translations'?? UGH. The Psalms are layered and beautiful.
In the inclusive language bibles (and I use the term 'bible' very
loosely when discussing inclusive language) the layers are
completely destroyed. There are plenty of wing-nut new age
modernistic 'translations' that are abhorent.

Also - It was the Catholic church who put the bible together in
the first place. It was a Catholic council ~350 A.D. that the
Holy Spirit worked through deciding which books to use and
which ones not to. So considering it is a 'Catholic' book to
begin with, and that the Holy Spirit worked within the
Catholic church to put the bible together in the first place,
it is the best place to look for accurate translations and
approval.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:37 AM
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Ok,
Then on the infallibility of the pope

JP2 said that muslims and jews (people of the book) , because they have a relationship with the God of Abraham, will goto heaven.

How can that be? Both deny Christ. Jews say hes a false prophet and muslims say he is not the Christ.
Why are not Hindu's, Confucians(?) , etc..also in the group with muslims and jews...they also deny christ?



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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That was his opinion. That wasn't church teaching.
I don't know why, in his opinion, he excluded Hindus etc.
You'd have to ask HIM why this was his opinion.

Again ... his OPINION is just his opinion. It is subject to error
like everyone else. He did not issue this 'ex-cathreda'. It is
not church teaching.

Like I said Jake .... Papal infalibility DOES NOT mean that we
believe the pope can't sin. It has nothing to do with sin and
it has nothing to do with his personal opinions. It has to
do with DOCTRINE. Matthew 16:18 interpretation. Read
the link I provided. It explains this further and gives the
early church fathers explainations as well.

www.catholic.com...



[edit on 5/24/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Yep. You could be co-redeemer. Exactly right. However it is TRUTH, so to acknowledge
truth always helps people understand God and His plan better.




Now I have a real problem with this. I don't believe anyone else can be a co-redeemer. For a person to be a redeemer they had to meet certain requirements. The Jewish nearest kinsman is a foreshadow/symbolic of Jesus Christ. According to God's standards the redeemer of mankind had to meet specific requirements one of which was sinlessness, so that leaves only Jesus Christ. I can't be nor can anyone else. If you are taught that Mary was sinless then you will be lead to believe she is a co-redeemer with Christ. She was not sinless, and as such is in the same sin boat with the rest of us. Now your answer will be she was sinless the RCC says so.

Herein lies the problem, a problem that is huge and one that will not be agreed upon. It's not only a problem but one that can't be both ways. And one that can cause one to go to hell, if faith is not in Christ alone



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
However, if the priest said to you that all protestants
go to hell because they aren't in the Catholic church... then he was
wrong. It's just EASIER to go to heaven
when you have all the truth and all the sacraments -




That's what the priest said, "If you are protestant you will go to hell because you are not catholic". So if He's wrong about that what else could he be wrong about?

Here is another point, if you have to follow sacraments to enter heaven it's works and not by faith in Christ alone.




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