Is it time to take up arms?

I am a republican and i can see my country being turned into a tolitarian regime. Im sure the democrats agree by now that the government of the US has decided unilateraly to not listen to it's citizens, to wage wars for money, Crack down on freedoms of every american by now passing legislation that will require National ID's. and the list goes on and on. Is enough enough yet? Whats the next step banning the right to bear arms?
First we need to impeach bush, if enough of us write our congressmen maybe we can begin impeachment proceedings. I hate to say it but we will need a democrat to undo the mess Bush & Co. have created.

I pose almost the same question www.abovetopsecret.com...' when I ask what is your line in the sand? I keep wondering how much people can take from their government before they respond violently -- a revolution. Incidentally, this issue raises the best case against gun control or confiscation. Indeed, an armed populace is a free populace.

Good grief -- NO!

Bullets are not the answer. If you don't like the idiots in power, remember that they have a limited timespan. Vote the suckers out of office.

Promote another party that you like and start working for that candidate's election. Involve yourself in the political process.

But guns? That's ridiculous. Are you going to run around shooting EVERYONE in government, incuding the folks who repair the streets? How are you going to decide who's good and who's bad? And what benefit is there to breaking the law and committing murder or violence?

Become an activist, yes, but peaceful means are far better. Violence is unimaginative and won't get you the results you want.

I agree with Byrd. Your Second Amendment rights have been deteriorating for years, remember it says your right to bear arms shall not be infringed. We've lost so many rights that it's getting ridiculous. But to come out shooting is just wrong.

You won't win with violence, but you need to do much more than vote. You need to write and call your congressmen. Demand for them to represent you. Explain how you are going to expose their voting records, and then do it. Start protesting in front of their offices in the main town in their district. Call the press to show up at your protest. You need to bother them every day and not let up.

And most of all, think about running for office yourself. If you won't run, find someone who will that supports the people and your views. And then back them.

The reason We, the People, are losing power is because we no longer participate in the political system. Start getting active. Don't understand the tax laws and who is a taxpayer and who is responsible for paying taxes? The write the IRS Commissioner and Sec. of Treasury. That is what they are there for. Same thing with Social Security.

The Constitution is the "Rule Book" for the game of Government. If the government doesn't want to play the game by the rules then get rid of them (impeach, expel). The Constitution is the chains that binds Government. Right now, government is tugging on that chain. Are you tugging back?

I've been in the militia movement in it's peak. I spoke for a civilized response then and I still do now. When you pull out guns, you give the government the excuse to shoot and kill, but more importantly, to prove how insane you and your thoughts were. When you're dead, how do you prove them wrong? We need every person we can get that sees through our government wrongdoings. We don't need them dyeing.

Originally posted by Trustnone
I hate to say it but we will need a democrat to undo the mess Bush & Co. have created.

We need better than that. We need the Libertarian party to become the dominant party. That's the only hope we have of reclaiming America. Otherwise, yes, I do believe it will take a violent civil war, or revolution to end the insanity.

[edit on 11-5-2005 by Moe Foe]

Originally posted by Byrd
If you don't like the idiots in power, remember that they have a limited timespan. Vote the suckers out of office.

Byrd, that's all well and good, and in a fair and democratic system that would work great, but I wonder if you have read this thread?

[edit on 11-5-2005 by twitchy]

They've become very good at manipulating elections. Your votes don't really count anymore. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's burnt and crusty. Karl Rove is one sneaky bastard, among others. The power you once had over your gov't has basically been removed without your knowledge. Big lies and denial keep people believing what they want to believe...that everything is still alright. Go back to sleep, and don't forget to vote!

Originally posted by Byrd
Good grief -- NO!

Bullets are not the answer. If you don't like the idiots in power, remember that they have a limited timespan. Vote the suckers out of office.

Promote another party that you like and start working for that candidate's election. Involve yourself in the political process.

But guns? That's ridiculous. Are you going to run around shooting EVERYONE in government, incuding the folks who repair the streets? How are you going to decide who's good and who's bad? And what benefit is there to breaking the law and committing murder or violence?

Become an activist, yes, but peaceful means are far better. Violence is unimaginative and won't get you the results you want.

I think a Civil War will be eniminate.. those militia's around arent going to stand for this, I for one and getting sick of stupid things the governement is doing...

"Protesting isnt a right its a privledge." Bloomberg before the RNC in NY

Besides, if our forfathers were such pussies we would all be here under englands rule still..

Sometimes you need to see what is going on and decide wethers its a good or bad thing and how it will effect us in the future, not just us but our kids and our kids kids. Alot of people are comparing US today to 1939 germany, with the crackdown on right, national ID cards and plain out scaring the # out of the populus with fake error treats.

So I for 1 think its time for a change, wether it would be peacefull or not.. Something has to be done. Or next time we talk might be on a boxcar headed for the gas chamber.

Originally posted by Moe Foe
They've become very good at manipulating elections. Your votes don't really count anymore. Wake up and smell the coffee. ... Go back to sleep, and don't forget to vote!

Very well put Moe, and Twitchy. Manipulations at the polls as been going on since the 60's (that we now of). Politicians are smart, why else do you think they would tell us that you can rid of them by voting? But they don't tell us that they can also be removed from power.

Not only that, but think about who the party's bring to us for elections. We have no choice. We narrow down the selections through the primary vote and then vote for the President. But not on the first group of selections.

And I agree wholeheartedly, we still have the Libertarians. Forget the propaganda you've been told about them and look deeper into what they want and who they promote. Great People!

[edit on 5/11/05 by Qwas]

The problem is, if the elections are fixed, the Libertarian party will never have a chance, even if they did get enough votes. Who knows? Maybe they'd already be a contender, if it weren't for these phony elections.

Originally posted by Trustnone
I am a republican and i can see my country being turned into a tolitarian regime. Im sure the democrats agree by now that the government of the US has decided unilateraly to not listen to it's citizens, to wage wars for money, Crack down on freedoms of every american by now passing legislation that will require National ID's. and the list goes on and on. Is enough enough yet? Whats the next step banning the right to bear arms?
First we need to impeach bush, if enough of us write our congressmen maybe we can begin impeachment proceedings. I hate to say it but we will need a democrat to undo the mess Bush & Co. have created.

The right to bear arms is already illegal. In NYC many cuts have been made to right to bear arms. This was started under Republican Gullianni. Many former cops complained (Former cops normally automatically keep right to bear arms.)

But even if Americans 100% had right to bear arms, it wouldn't matter:

1. The majority of Americans have no spine. As long as they get their coffee and doughnuts in the morning, they could care less if they lose all their rights.

2. WHITE Americans no longer exist. They're extinct. By WHITE I mean capital W, H, I, T, E. And not in adjective form. A true WHITE American was the 5th part of goverment, in the system of checks and balances. Back less than 100 years ago, they'd tar and feather politicians who tried to do the stuff politicians now do. This kept politicians in place. It was the ultimate check and balance.

(The Black Americans who created Black Wallstreet where WHITEmen. Meaning they had that WHITEman mindset. They had backbones, spines, were ready to rumble, willing to kill and die for what they believed in, etc.... Black Americans today don't have that mindset at all - why they gotta beg others for jobs. Black Wallstreet match Wall Street in NYC in money, and power, and was on the verge of eclipsing Wall Street in NYC!!!)

WHITES, WHITEs, WHITes, WHItes, WHites, and Whites, no longer exist. IMHO a few thousand WHites, and Whites might exist. And a few hundred WHItes. But none of 'em are enough to do anything.

3. The installing of the private bank known as the Federal Reserve (in 1913) was the first major test to see if Americans would make a call to arms vs bad goverment. None did. The Federal Reserve is the biggest scam in America. Not a single American has investigated it, or raised a stink about it for the past 102 years.

4. The creation of the IRS in the early 1900's is the 2nd biggest scam in America. The IRS is an illegal creation. And a 2nd major test to see if Americans would make a call to arms vs. bad goverment. It was never legally passed into law. 36 states were needed to ratify the constitution to allow the IRS to be created. Only 2 states ratified it.... far, far, short of 36. The IRS was still created. Not a single American made a call to arms.

5. The U.S.S. Liberty incident (Google "USS Liberty" for the full story) is another test. Not a single American made a call to arms against the setup. It was the WTC attempted roughly 50 years ago. Only reason it backfired was cuz too many survived and told the truth.

6. Here we have the WTC mess. 2 members of the Bush family were principles in the company that ran security for the WTC, United Airlines, and a major US airport. WTC 7 was destroyed for no reason even though no airplane crashed into it. WTC 7 was far away from the WTC, yet mysteriously caught on fire and came down, yet other closer nearby buildings never came down.
The Bush family are members of an ultra-secret society.

Americans will never make the call to bear arms cuz Americans are too spineless, uneducated, don't have a WHITEman's mindset, too comfortable, too much in denial, etc... etc... In the end, the final end, Americans deserve to get whatever happens to them. Sad but true. Cuz Americans allowed it all to happen... from the creation of the Federal Reserve, the IRS, the USS Liberty coverup, and the WTC coverup and kneejerk reaction.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

20% to 40% of all American food is poisoned. It has Aspartame as an ingrediant. Another popular name for Aspartame is ... Nutra-Sweet. It makes micro-scopic holes in the brain. It's 800% sweeter than normal sugar. 1 gram aspartame/NutraSweet = 800 grams sugar.
www.sweetpoison.com...

Every major bookstore has the book "Sweet Poison" by Janet S. H. Go into any Barnes & Noble and ask where it's at, or order a copy.



Flouride is a waste product of alumanum production and metal companies. It's pumped into 50% or more of American drinking water. It's law that all American schools (private and public) must have flouride in the school drinking water.)

Saccharin is pushed to be added into coffee. Next time your at a StarBucks, and think you're adding sugar to your coffee, check the ingredients in that little packet. It's either Saccharin, or aspartame/nutra-sweet. Saccharin is another poison. Not as bad as apartame. There's been a BIG surge in coffee shops/houses in America. With StarBucks litterally taking over entire cities. NYC is a brutal, incredible, example. In less than the past 2 years, there's almost litterally a StarBucks on every corner in NYC. Going from zero, to a few, to a near instant explosion of thousands of StarBucks. All force feeding saccharin and aspartame to millions of people every day.

The majority of Americans are litterally... brain dead from these 3 main poisons in their food supply. Call to bear arms? Another revolution? Won't ever happen! Not even a call to impeach!

[edit on 11-5-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

20% to 40% of all American food is poisoned. It has Aspartame as an ingrediant. [...] Flouride is a waste product of alumanum production and metal companies. It's pumped into 50% or more of American drinking water. It's law that all American schools (private and public) must have flouride in the school drinking water.)

Saccharin is pushed to be added into coffee. Next time your at a StarBucks, and think you're adding sugar to your coffee, check the ingredients in that little packet.

OS2012, I am interested in how you think these things get done. Who is behind the conspiracy to place sweetner in our paths and microscopic holes in our brains? i mean, if the guy who starts the conspiracy has children, aren't they likely to ingest nutrasweet or flouride? How can a conspiracy be that big? Also, what the heck is all that about "WHITES" Are you saying that white Americans are better than non-whites?

As for time to take up arms, no, you'd have to be pretty stupid to do that. If you wanted to change America overnight, all you'd have to do is organize a tax-strike where people refuse to pay their income tax as a way of protest. All they could do would be put you in jail for it but you'd be making a big statement, particularly if you used the press correctly. If enough people did this, you could have non-violent change very quickly.

Our government runs on taxes. How funny that we'll fill the tank every year while griping about the way it runs.

I think what he means by "white" americans are militant americans who are hardcore believers in the constitution and other american documents. You dont necessarily have to be white to be a true blue american. The problem is most of these americans have moved out west or into the southwest where gun laws are not as strict and BIG government i.e. Federal Government is less involved with, except california and hawaii. These are just temporary refuges. Even where i live, with the redneck good ole boys, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennesee we try to keep the gov. out and keep state rule. Big governments never work! there is a strip running deep in the south from the midwest that are the "white" americans.

All they could do would be put you in jail for it but you'd be making a big statement, particularly if you used the press correctly. If enough people did this, you could have non-violent change very quickly.

You wouldn't change anything. That's why you have lots of prison camps in the US. The press can't get there.

A call to arms versus who?

Do we assasinate the President? Half of the US Senators? Half of the corporations leaders? Half of the wealthy people?

I kind of agree things are borderline evil in the United States and getting worse. Not by the National ID card. But on the potential disaster for our rights that things like the Patriot Act can bring about.

Will I bring up arms? No. I dont even own a firearm and dont plan to as of right now.

And really honestly I kind of think writing my Senator is kind of futile since they seem to have their own agendas that one logical letter is not going to change.

And the way things are coming now with internet monitoring and PAtriot Act antics, I wouldnt dare to try and organize people with like minded goals for corporate sabotage's, assasinations or government manipulation.

I think that it more trouble then it is worth. And I dont see anything I disagree with that much to want to do so.


I think even the President does not fit my ideal of a US Citizen. You know talking about letting Mexicans and Canadians traveling into our country without Passports, selling weapons to Israel, not taking stance on immigration issues, not putting balls to the wall as far as national security, allowing unconstitional gun laws, allowing unconstitional laws like the Patriot act.

If I was President I would do so much more. I would completely audit everything wrong with the country. I would get rid of all unconstitional laws just to preserve the integrity of it, not necessarily because the law wasnt needed in some form.

I think the President, almost all of the Senators, dont do a good job at all.

Maybe in 10 years it will get worse, but it isnt that bad right now. Not bad enough to consider risking your life. Nowhere really close.

[edit on 11-5-2005 by Obfuscate]

It will not matter what party you elect, they are human and will be corrupted by the same powers that have been corrupting this nation since its inception: Greedy People!

It will not matter how much activism you do, no amount of protests stopped the Iraq War
Thirty years of protests and activism has not ended the Drug War, in fact even though we've made
inroads with medical marijuana, we are now facing, 2 years mandatory for possession 5 years mandatory sentencing for sharing a joint, , 10 years for sharing a joint with someone under 18 or has been in rehab, yes thats an actual law in congress being pushed: H.R. 1528, Defending America's Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005
Take action now so when they hang you, at least you can say "I tried"

Fourty Years of environmental activism has..what?
Been completely turned backward on itself by one President.

Any armed action taken to make a political stand is determined by the Patriot Act to be TERRORISM

Thats right, the government and the media will simply demonize anyone who makes a stand,
and will turn the entire nation against anyone who dares to stand up for their rights.
Take Waco as an example, the government is not adverse to murdering unarmed woman and children in the most ghastly methods to have its way. Take Oklahoma City as an example of how they will take action to demonize every armed group in the country, pass laws allowing them to infilitrate and disrupt these groups, because that is what they did.

Raise a weapon against the government and they can hold you indefinately, without a lawyer, without a trial, without anyone even knowing where you are, or why you were arrested.

The line in the sand is basically : "when there is nothing left to lose"

Originally posted by twitchy
Byrd, that's all well and good, and in a fair and democratic system that would work great, but I wonder if you have read this thread?

[edit on 11-5-2005 by twitchy]

Yes. I have.

However, let me point out that if an overwhelming majority of Americans were against Bush, he'd have a lot more problems than he does now. He'd see demonstrations here in the US and he'd find a whole country up in arms.

Instead we see Neocons rushing around everywhere to puff his accomplishments and Conservatives announcing that he's the Best President Ever. And the mix is pretty even.

I would dearly love to see our antiquated Electoral College (left over from the days when the founding fathers didn't think we had enough intelligence to vote a jackrabbit out of the Senate) changed to popular vote. Then we wouldn't have had the first Bush mess in the first place.

We have no real united issues. I personally loathe Bush, but I'm sure not going to run around and shoot up the streets over it. It's senseless and ineffective and a waste of energy.

You'd do better to take up a collection from 100,000 people and bribe the idiots.

Originally posted by Legalizer
It will not matter what party you elect, they are human and will be corrupted by the same powers that have been corrupting this nation since its inception: Greedy People!

It will not matter how much activism you do, no amount of protests stopped the Iraq War
Thirty years of protests and activism has not ended the Drug War, in fact even though we've made
inroads with medical marijuana, we are now facing, 2 years mandatory for possession 5 years mandatory sentencing for sharing a joint, , 10 years for sharing a joint with someone under 18 or has been in rehab, yes thats an actual law in congress being pushed: H.R. 1528, Defending America's Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005
Take action now so when they hang you, at least you can say "I tried"

Fourty Years of environmental activism has..what?
Been completely turned backward on itself by one President.

Any armed action taken to make a political stand is determined by the Patriot Act to be TERRORISM

Thats right, the government and the media will simply demonize anyone who makes a stand,
and will turn the entire nation against anyone who dares to stand up for their rights.
Take Waco as an example, the government is not adverse to murdering unarmed woman and children in the most ghastly methods to have its way. Take Oklahoma City as an example of how they will take action to demonize every armed group in the country, pass laws allowing them to infilitrate and disrupt these groups, because that is what they did.

Raise a weapon against the government and they can hold you indefinately, without a lawyer, without a trial, without anyone even knowing where you are, or why you were arrested.

The line in the sand is basically : "when there is nothing left to lose"

What is so evil about drug laws?

I think Science and Education is more important then smoking weed or selling drugs.

I wish there were was more drug enforcement for drugs when I was a kid. Especially for the dealers, not so much the users. A kid or adult who decides he is going to smoke weed for the first time in his life and is caught by police it is going to totally ruin his life. I dont think it is THAT bad, but I think selling it, ESPECIALLY to minors is an extremely serious crime.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by twitchy
Byrd, that's all well and good, and in a fair and democratic system that would work great, but I wonder if you have read this thread?

[edit on 11-5-2005 by twitchy]

Yes. I have.

However, let me point out that if an overwhelming majority of Americans were against Bush, he'd have a lot more problems than he does now. He'd see demonstrations here in the US and he'd find a whole country up in arms.

Instead we see Neocons rushing around everywhere to puff his accomplishments and Conservatives announcing that he's the Best President Ever. And the mix is pretty even.

I would dearly love to see our antiquated Electoral College (left over from the days when the founding fathers didn't think we had enough intelligence to vote a jackrabbit out of the Senate) changed to popular vote. Then we wouldn't have had the first Bush mess in the first place.

We have no real united issues. I personally loathe Bush, but I'm sure not going to run around and shoot up the streets over it. It's senseless and ineffective and a waste of energy.

You'd do better to take up a collection from 100,000 people and bribe the idiots.

Remember Timothy McVeigh try that already and it didnt help the militias who are anti-government.

Originally posted by Byrd
Good grief -- NO!

Violence is unimaginative and won't get you the results you want.

The entire purpose of the 2nd amendment is to have the ability to take up arms to stop tyrany. All the activisim in the world can't stop firepower, just ask the chinese, or the old eastern block.