Allah = Hubal = Baal?

Let me throw some crazy on the table...

It seems old Hubal got around in a fairly real sense.... Hubal is missing a hand.
Is Allah described as missing a hand?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: CAPT PROTON
Let me throw some crazy on the table...

It seems old Hubal got around in a fairly real sense.... Hubal is missing a hand.
Is Allah described as missing a hand?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Allah doesn't have a hand... Allah cannot be depicted let alone be represented in some Pre-Islamic stone statues.

a reply to: Jakko

Thanks for the alert to this thread. It's an important issue.

I think the historical evidence is exceedingly conclusive.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Yes certain Christians are following the doctrine of demons.

Ecclesiastes 1:9.What has been will be again,what has been done will be done again,there is nothing new under the sun.

A video for you

originally posted by: Jakko
After doing some reading into conversations and discussions between christians and islamics on the "answering christianity" and "answering islam" sites I found some interesting historical information about Allah and how the worship of Allah started, unveiling a conspiracy about who or what Allah really is, and who Islamic people have been worshipping all these years...

It is a long read so I picked out the most important part, all the background info can be found in the link.

In conclusion, we need to emphasize that these facts remain. The OT explicitly denies the Muslim assertion that the pre-Islamic Ishmaelites knew and worshiped the true God and that their only problem was that they associated other gods with him. The data conclusively shows that as the centuries unfolded the Ishmaelites forsook the God of their ancestors Abraham and Jacob, Yahweh Elohim, for the worship of some false god. The false god whom they worshiped as the true God was quite possibly Baal. The data also shows that Hubal was the high god worshiped at Mecca, which supports the view that he was the Allah of pre-Islamic times.

We started out with a quotation from the Psalms identifying the Ishmaelites as enemies of God. Even though the thesis of this paper was argued on the basis of the assumption that the Meccans are Ishmaelites the conclusion does not depend on this assumption. Most of the quotations we have cited to support our argument do not mention Ishmaelites at all.

The Biblical and historical evidence shows that the Moabites worshiped Baal. The pre-Islamic and Muslim sources show (a) that the Meccans took over the idol Hubal from the Moabites and (b) that Allah and Hubal are actually identical. Thus, whether the Meccans are Ishmaelites or not, the evidence is still strong and sufficient to conclude that Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e. the Baal of the Moabites and thus not the God of the Bible. Muhammad incorporated the characteristics and names of various other gods into his new monotheistic message about Allah, but he apparently started the construction of Allah with Hubal, the chief god of the Meccans.

This is the link:
www.answering-islam.org.uk...


To me it is quite a revelation to find out that the Allah as we know it today, is actually the god that people first worshipped under the names Baal and Hubal, which is also why I think this info is supposed to be in conspiracies.

Baal, the god that many christians see as a spiritual being on the side of Satan (a demon) whos job it is to spread confusion and keep people away from christianity, appeared to have vanished in history on first sight, but now, after closer inspection, it seems baal is still around today, with just a different name, and more followers than ever.

Wether or not these christians are right may never be proven, but it sure is clear that the God of the bible is not the God of the Koran.


[edit on 9-5-2005 by Jakko]

This looks like just another trolling for Muslims thread.

a reply to: Jakko
Debunking the word "Allah" is debunking Christianity. Aramaic, Arabic and Hebrew have somehow the same root.
Allah is the Aramaic word ܐܠܗܐ means "Alaha" even nowadays it is used in Arabic with a bit different accent. you can find it here :
biblehub.com...
www.academia.edu...
Moreover I just wonder how can Muhammad instruct people to worship Huball while he himself broke the Hubal idol in Mecca !!!

a reply to: khnum

Firstly, Islam recognises Jesus as the true Messiah. Islam can not be the Antichrist.

2nd, thinking Pagan Arabs and Islam are the same thing is ridiculous. It's like saying the KKK and Christians are one and the same thing.

3rd, just because a certain group worshipped Idols doesn't mean it has anything to do with Mohammad and Islam. If anything, Mohammad tried to end the practice of Idolatry which is a major insult in not just Islam but every religion.

4th, Judaism has a closer relationship with the teachings of Islam than it does to Christianity. This must make the Jews demon worshippers also going by some peoples opinions.

There is no conclusive evidence that Baal is Allah.

It is as impossible for Allah to be either Baal or Hubal as it is for YHWH or Jesus.

From the Islamic scriptures:
On Baal:

Translation of Surah As-Saffat verses 124-126
"Will you not fear God? Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,- Allah, your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?"

On Hubal:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari's Kitab al-Jihad H#276 and Kitab al-Maghazi H#375
Abu Safyan (at that time an enemy of Islam, and on the battlefield) said, "Superior may be Hubal!" On that the Prophet said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They asked, "What may we say?" He said, "Say: Allah is More Elevated and More Majestic!" Abu Sufyan said, "We have (the idol) Al-'Uzza, whereas you have no 'Uzza!" The Prophet said (to his companions), "Reply to him." They said, "What may we say?" The Prophet said, "Say: Allah is our Helper and you have no helper."

So yeah, considering that the Islamic scriptures deny any divinity to either of those, and consider their worship to be false and useless,a dn most importantly, sets Allah as something that is not them, it'd be as ridiculous to claim that Allah is Hubal or Baal (or that Hubal is Baal) as it would be to claim that YHWH or Jesus was Hubal or Baal.

I think that pretty conclusively closes this case.

originally posted by: maes2
a reply to: Jakko
Debunking the word "Allah" is debunking Christianity. Aramaic, Arabic and Hebrew have somehow the same root.
Allah is the Aramaic word ܐܠܗܐ means "Alaha" even nowadays it is used in Arabic with a bit different accent. you can find it here :
biblehub.com...
www.academia.edu...
Moreover I just wonder how can Muhammad instruct people to worship Huball while he himself broke the Hubal idol in Mecca !!!

These people are here to say they're way is the only way. Don't waste one minute of your precious time on Earth.

originally posted by: CAPT PROTON
Let me throw some crazy on the table...

It seems old Hubal got around in a fairly real sense.... Hubal is missing a hand.
Is Allah described as missing a hand?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Allah = Hubal = Baal = Huitzilopochtli (Aztec god of war) = Tyr (Norse god of war)

There may not be a connection between Hubal and Allah but the black stone at the Ka’ba most likely is connected to Hubal.

The Indian Islamic scholar Muhammad Hamidullah summed up the meaning of the Black Stone:
[T]he Prophet has named the (Black Stone) the 'right hand of God' (yamin-Allah), and for purpose. In fact one poses there one's hand to conclude the pact, and God obtains there our pact of allegiance and submission. In the qur'anic terminology, God is the king, and ... in (his) realm there is a metropolis (Umm al-Qurra) and in the metropolis naturally a palace (Bait-Allah, home of God). If a subject wants to testify to his loyalty, he has to go to the royal palace and conclude personally the pact of allegiance. The right hand of the invisible God must be visible symbolically. And that is the al-Hajar al-Aswad, the Black Stone in the Ka'bah.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hubal has some striking similarities to the Aztec war god named Huitzilopochtli. Both Hubal and Huitzilopochtli have one prosthetic hand. These two pictures of Huitzilopochtli show him with a stone attached to the prosthetic. One picture shows a white stone and the other picture shows a black stone.

This is a 1602 A.D. European rendering of Huitzilopochtli


Huitzilopochtli

The black stone is shown on the right side of the circular shield.

Hubal (Arabic: هبل‎) was a god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably at the Kaaba in Mecca. His idol was a human figure, believed to control acts of divination, which were made by tossing arrows in front of the statue. The direction in which the arrows pointed answered questions asked of the idol.
Hisham Ibn Al-Kalbi's Book of Idols describes the image as shaped like a human, with the right hand broken off and replaced with a golden hand.

en.wikipedia.org...

The black stone at the Kaaba was not always at its current location. It was stolen a number of times. In ancient times it could have been attached to the fake hand of Hubal.

The Aztec and Norse god of war are both missing one hand

The bible has a passage that connects Hubal to a Babylonian god. However, there is no connection to Allah here.

Ezekiel 21:21-22
"For the king of Babylon stands at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination; he shakes the arrows, he consults the household idols, he looks at the liver. Into his right hand came the divination, 'Jerusalem,' to set battering rams, to open the mouth for slaughter, to lift up the voice with a battle cry, to set battering rams against the gates, to cast up ramps, to build a siege wall."

Arrows were tossed before Hubal for a sign of divination and his right hand was made of gold.

a reply to: lostinspace

I thought Islam was some kind of spin off of the cult of Saturnalia and that's why they worship the black cube?

a reply to: toysforadults

The original chief idol within the black Kabah cube was a humanoid red stone statue with a right hand of gold. His name was Hubal. He was worshipped by the Meccans before Muhammad smashed the idol. Muhammad did not want an image to represent the new god Allah.

a reply to: lostinspace

Ahhh right, before Islam had the kabah didn't Jewish Mystics have it?

am I remembering that correctly?

I already answered my own question... it appears as if Abraham and his son Ismail built the Kabah

Yeah this is a cult of Saturn thing for sure. Have you seen the thread recently made by a member on the Sabbateans?

a reply to: toysforadults

Are you referring to Kabbalah? That is Jewish mysticism which I think doesn't have anything to do with the Meccan Kabah cube.

I read online about a legend was passed down that said the Kabah was build by Noah. There was an original one built by Adam but hat one was destroyed in the flood. I don't know if I am remembering right on the details. These are Muslim stories to support the Islam faith.

...Oh, it was Abraham? I didn't remember that.

a reply to: toysforadults

I did not read that thread about the cult of Saturn. I will look up the Sabbateans post. Thanks.

a reply to: lostinspace

www.newsweek.com...

Yup. Both religions have their origins in Jewish mysticism. That's why the Qur'an has many similarities with the bible. The influence of Jewish mysticism is rooted deeply into the subconscious of Mohammed.

The Kaaba was a sanctuary in pre-Islamic times. Muslims believe that Abraham—known as Ibrahim in the Islamic tradition—and his son, Ismail, constructed the Kaaba. Tradition holds that it was originally a simple unroofed rectangular structure,

linkylink

It held theological importance for some Romans, who saw it as a restoration of the ancient Golden Age, when the world was ruled by Saturn.

The golden age. You know how all the elite and royal families worship gold and have golden everything and how gold has such value?

It has a lot to do with Saturnalia.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: lostinspace
a reply to: toysforadults

I did not read that thread about the cult of Saturn. I will look up the Sabbateans post. Thanks.

Yup no problem. Report feed back this is a topic of interest to me but very few are educated enough to discuss it.

a reply to: toysforadults

Can you please give me a link to the thread? I can't find it right away. Thanks.

a reply to: lostinspace

Oh it must be viewed as an anti semetic thing and got trash binned

yeah, uhhh that's a tough topic but you can dig into the black cube and cult of saturnalia you will come to similar conclusions as some of us

I'm not anti jewish btw I'm just a researcher but look into it

David Icke covered the cult of saturn but as usual his theory is kinda out of the world but it was an interesting presentation