Originally posted by vincere7

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
How can we pull out and yet give meaning to those who have sacrificed their lives there? How can we avoid what my father felt when he came home after seeing his close friends killed only to find out it was all for nothing.

We don't need to give meaning its an experience for the individual. His friends didn't die for nothing. They were part of your dads experience and when you look in your dads eyes thats what you see.

To me,that is an excellent statement Vincere. It has got me thinking as to how my son must be feeling now he's home.

Congrats for getting your boy back eddie. Must be great to have him home.

Cheers vincere
Means a lot to know that the troops are appreciated

Hey Eddie, glad to here the good news mate! Buy him a beer for me would you.

Originally posted by ThehorrorofAtlantis
Hey Eddie, glad to here the good news mate! Buy him a beer for me would you.

Allready done mate

Stlli recovering from the weekend

"Bump"
There has been a hell of a lot of statements made within this thread.
Some good and some bad.
We have all had our own perceptions as to why people support terrorist's and terrorism.
Most people cannot, or will not support terrorism, but living in a World where this happens, i suppose you are always going to get the minority who do support them. Fact of life i suppose, but in my eyes, is wrong.

I think that terrorists are pretty much the same thing as a soldier. Most people would say that terrorists 'target civilians' and 'take innoncent live'. Honestly though, this isn't very much different from what a soldier does. What do you think happens during a war? Innocent people are murdered, just lke how terrorists murder innocent people. And if you think the U.S. army only attacks military targets than your living in a pre world war 2 world. Ever since the fire bombings of dresden civilians have been open game. War is a very messy event, and i think the erradication of nearly half the population of fallujah proves this.

id also like to mention how most terrorists tactics come from the fact thats the only way they can violently cause change. they dont have tanks or fighters or anything like that. all they have is the most basic weaponary at their disposal. but by no means am i saying that what a terrorist does is acceptable. i find it one of the most vile acts a human can commit but im just trying to put things in perspective.

oh yeah, beofre someone asks me this, i dont pledge alligiance to any country. i pledge alligiance to myself and my family.

[edit on 26-7-2005 by The Dreaded One]

Originally posted by The Dreaded One
I think that terrorists are pretty much the same thing as a soldier.

WRONG ,WRONG, SO BLOODY WRONG.
How many soldiers do you actually know who strap them selves up with explosives and walk into a school yard full of children and kill them all?

How many soldiers do you actually know who ride buses and blow them selves up?

How many soldiers do you actually know................?

Maybe you ought to ask some of those who have served just exactly what they had to contend with. Then and only then will you be able to get just the smallest bit of understanding as to what they went through.

Biker...are we then to conclude that your beef is actually with the method used by terrorists?

Would it be more acceptable if these terrorists piloted aircraft and then dropped bombs onto various targets?

I'm truly, genuinely not trying to bait you here - I'm absolutely confused as to what you're really fighting against....from what you've said so far, it's not the reasons why, so much as the methods therein which are your main beef.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Biker...are we then to conclude that your beef is actually with the method used by terrorists?

My 'beef' is i am totally against the barbaric and indiscriminate callous killing by the so called freedom fighters. (lets stick to calling them terrorists).

Their methods are callous and cowardly. Dropping bombs on strategic targets is one thing, but detonating yourself amongst innocent civilians has got to be wrong no matter what beliefs you have.

I admit that civilians do get get killed in War. But to kill with intent as the terrorists do is wrong.

To support terrorism is wrong too. In all honesty, you are supporting the purposeful indiscriminate killing of innocents.


[edit on 2-8-2005 by Bikereddie]

Thanks for clarifying that

Now - who is it exactly who is supporting the terrorists?

(through all of my wading through these threads, I haven't found anyone who's doing this - sure, there are plenty decrying the indiscriminate capture/holding of alleged terrorists...but the argument there is aimed at the legality [or lack thereof] of holding prisoners without charge, etc, and isn't supporting terrorists)

Dropping bombs on strategic targets is one thing, but detonating yourself amongst innocent civilians has got to be wrong no matter what beliefs you have.

I suppose one could argue, seeing as you yourself are ok with the idea that civilian deaths are sometimes unavoidable in war, is that the aim of bombing civilians is to try and make the people rise up against the government in order to stop, as we are often told, their foreign policies that have killed a lot of innocents. Therefore, it could be seen as a 'noble cause' to wage war for, making civilian deaths acceptable. And also let us not forget that when you kill hundreds or thousands of innocents in order to rid the world of a threat that MIGHT be there, and in the end isn't, it is just as shameful as intentionally targetting civilians.

And they may also think that those civilians supported the government's illegal war economically, and carried out no further action after the government ignored 1-2 million people who protested against it. Therefore we are just as much to blame as the people who made the decision to go to war. I don't think many people would be sympathetic if their family were killed in 'collateral damage' to the people who played a part in it.

A lot of ways to view it, but for me the bottom line is, too many leaders of the world do not value human life. And the response is often an 'eye for an eye'...

[edit on 2-8-2005 by sal88]

Originally posted by Corinthas
Yeah why do people supprt soldiers... or terrorists for that matter as they are the same thing with a different label.

If you think thae cause is just its a soldier and you support him or his cause... if you think the cause is unjust you call them terrorists and dont support them.


[edit on 9/5/2005 by Corinthas]

I know I personally get accused of sympathising with them and being one of them etc because I visit ATS. All that "the government could be involved" stuff seems to bring out that, if you're not with us, you're against us mentality, which Rumpsfeld himself has used on many many occasion, and it just proves what a horrible, horrible man he is.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Thanks for clarifying that
Now - who is it exactly who is supporting the terrorists?

Your welcome

We do have among us here on ATS, people who do support the terrorists.
Many have seen their posts and i have yet to see anyone who agrees with their ideals regarding terrorists.

Check out the 'War On Terrorism' forum. Think you may be surprised at just how many supporters there are.