It's 10:05... Your Under Arrest Kid!

Orginally posted by twitchy
People have a by god right to use the streets and sidewalks, I have walked home from late night jobs many times in my youth, and I'd be GD'mned if some cop would have arrested me for walking down the street, I don't care what time it is.

If you are walking home from a job (usually as long as you hae a destination you are fine) a cop will rarely get you for it. That is, of course, if you don't flip out at him and be rude. Then the cop will pull out all the stops. If a cop really wants to arrest you, he can. So you might as well be polite, tell him you are walking home from work, and ask if you may continue walking. And how much of your time did that take you? probably 60 seconds if he didnt decide to check out your story.

Another benifit to the curfew law is it gives police an excuse to investigate. If a group of minors is hanging around a 7-11 at midnight looking suspicious, it is easier for him to talk to them rather than say "i think you look suspious(i am sterotyping you)" And if they were really just trying to decide between a cherry or blueberry slurpie, then the cop can just tell them to hurry up and head home. No harm done there. "kids these days" just dont seem to know how to respond politely, which is what i think most of the tickets would spawn from.

Orginally posted by ANOK
Throughout history people under 16 have been allowed out of doors after midnight. Also throughout history adults have been allowed out after midnight.

Refering to history is not a good arguement in my opinion. That same arguement was used for civil rights. ("Segregation today, segregation tomorow, segregation forever!")

Orginally posted by James the Lesser
And again, make all the laws you want, doesn't mean anyone will follow it. Whole point of being a criminal is to break the law. So making a law to stop criminals is stupid, for criminals break the law.

Teenagers as a group are not criminals. Rebellious maybe, but not criminals. In the middle of the night, kids are much more likely to be mischievious than during the day, which is why a curfew makes sense.

And please don't give me any "its not affecting you" stories, I have actually been told to leave before police would be called. Why? because I was a teenager hanging out with my friends at night (no, not past curfew, we were hanging outside of an ice cream place--eatting their ice cream i might add)

Originally posted by misspickle
I dont agree with cufews and peosonaly i think the PARENTS should be controlling their kids- why leave it to the government?

I agree that parents should be the ones who control their kids, but NEWS FLASH, parents don't. So why make taxpayers spend money on cleaning up graffitti because parents aren't doing their job? Police might as well stop it in the first place than have to deal with in-denial parents.

---Pineapple

Originally posted by pineappleupsidedown

Orginally posted by ANOK
Throughout history people under 16 have been allowed out of doors after midnight. Also throughout history adults have been allowed out after midnight.

Refering to history is not a good arguement in my opinion. That same arguement was used for civil rights. ("Segregation today, segregation tomorow, segregation forever!")

Well I was just being rhetorical, trying to make a point....
Whether history is a good argument or not is irelivant...LOL

It's stupid to punish a whole group of people because of the actions of a few.
Fix the problem, whatever it is, not the end result.
Otherwise the problem will not go away.

It's stupid to punish a whole group of people because of the actions of a few.

ANOK, Im guessing you would fall into the effected age range if this curfew were to happne in your area?

I know the feeling, when I was 15 I was like hell yeah Im about to get my licsense!!! Then just before I turned 16 they passed a bunch of laws saying I had to do this and drivers Ed and get 40 hours logged in and drive with a parent for like a year.....at the time, I thought it was pretty stupid.
Cause I was being punished for the bad driving of all the other people my age. But now, well im only 7 years older...not much, but I kinda see why they did that.

And say the curfew were to come about, as long as you mind your own and stay out of trouble you will have nothing to worry about. Curfews in communities are not made to punish ALL teenagers...just the screw ups.
yeah there may be some areas that go all out...but what can you do...just wait till your 18 I guess.

"prevent vandalism","keep them out of trouble", bla bla bla.

What is going to prevent a kid from getting into trouble like vandalism between 3pm and 10pm?
After 10pm they gain magical super human crime abilities?
Or is that when the neighborhood crime watch gets sleepy and can't watch for anyone comitting crimes?

Here's a suggestion for our police state society, give kids something to do with their time

Thats too much to ask isn't it.

Here's an idea...how about American parents learn how to, oh, I don't know, PARENT? If they did, maybe the kids wouldn't be out in the dead of night stealing car radios and spray painting stuff. It's sad, really. Parents pass the buck, pass the buck, until it gets to the point where someone or something gets hurt. Then, the police have to get involved and get blamed for everythign. Suddenly, everyone's screaming about fascists.

Makes me sick. Learn to parent, and maybe your kids won't come home in cuffs.

DE

This is an interesting discussion. There are a couple of things I would like to contribute. First, I am a parent with teenagers. My wife and I impose a curfew on them ourselves, and at this point it's earlier than 10pm. Why? Because there is no reason for teenagers to be out late at night unless they have a job or are coming home from an event we have given them specific permission to go to.

Second, this IS NOT a new thing. Curfews for minors have been around forever. I grew up with a municipal curfew, my parents grew up with a curfew, and the place I live now has a curfew (10pm). I have lived in several places across the country, and many of them had curfews. Speaking with the voice of experience, there is MUCH less vandalism in communities with curfews.

And last but not least, we're not talking about federal law here, so that whole Facism thing goes out the window. These are municipal laws enacted by the residents in thier own communities. Adults have the RIGHT to enact rules and laws for thier own reasons. Minors don't. Don't like it? When you beome an adult, work to change the law. That's the way it works.

Here's my idea. Let's have a curfew for minors- whatever time the community feels is best. BUT instead of the minors being subject to punishment for breaking curfew, as some of you have said before, the parents are held accountable. If your kids are found out late at night, you are liable for thier actions. Lets face it, we had the kids- now we are expected to raise them.

Originally posted by SportyMB

It's stupid to punish a whole group of people because of the actions of a few.

ANOK, Im guessing you would fall into the effected age range if this curfew were to happne in your area?

Actualy no...LOL, not by a long shot sonny...But thanks for the compliment.

Like I keep saying the age here is irelivant...But never mind.

(Walks away muttering, "If they don't get it by now...")

I totaly agree with a curfew imposed by the parents. But a curfew imposed by the state is a different matter. I don't care what they use for an excuse to do it, it's a lie. It's for one reason only, control. It will start with teenagers and then when it becomes a common thing it will spread like fire.

[edit on 10/5/2005 by ANOK]

Just a side note, I went to three proms back when I was in High School, and every one of them ended at midnight, I've went to concerts that ran till 1am, fast food restraunts are now in many cases open 24hrs. Just because your out late doesn't mean your smoking pot and breaking windows. We've created an environment, a society, and even a market, where 10:00 just isn't that late anymore. What if the kid wants to drive down to the local fast food joint, pick up a burger, the parents are ok with it, but you're telling him it's illegal to do that because of their age?
Who's raising my kids these days? Me or Uncle Sammy?

Now here is something that is an unnecessary rule or law, whatever you want to call it.

My nephew came home with a paper saying something to the effect of parents could be turned in to Social Services for letting their kids ride on a lawn mower. My dad is known to put my nephews on his lap and drive them around the yard on the iding mower. This was fun for the kids, dad isn't flying around the yard or cutting the blades on that I know of, so I'm sure he is looking after their safety. So, now dad can get in trouble for it. Now, this is a law that has gone too far. You might as well say a kid cann't ride a horse, or ride his bike because he might fall off. Damn folks, life always has some risk in it. You can't take the "life" out of life with billions of warning labels on everything, except where they really belong. Who's to tell me that I can't put my nephew on my lap an drive him around the yard, anyway. You can shove it Psychology Services, oops did I say that out loud, I meant Social Services.

Troy

It's becomming a trend guys...

www.nctimes.com...
The cops in Escondido say they are working up a plan to establish a daytime curfew for people under 18 years of age. That presumably would include children of elementary-school age. But teenagers are the targets, and you can take that to the bank, assuming some adolescent truant is not knocking the place over.

What the cops hope to do is ask the Escondido City Council in June for an ordinance making it unlawful for youngsters to be on the streets from 8 or 8:30 in the morning until 1:30 in the afternoon. A teenager on the street! Grab that kid! We can't have them on the street!

The cops have refused to give other curfew details to reporters such as David Fried of the North County Times. They have instead skipped fast forward to make the case for the curfew's necessity.

The walls are closing in.

Prison planet anyone?...

The problem in these so called "high crime areas" (*hint* uban, or suburban near Uban, or suburban with people who moved from the urban) is their schools don't have enough after school programs. Or if they do, certain parents don't have their kids enroll IN the after school programs.

The majority of European-American parents tend to have their kids enroll in after school programs. But the majority of Nubian-American parents DON'T. The majority of Spanish-American parents DON'T. So then the kids have nothing to do from 3pm-10pm. And after.
The kids in the after school programs come home between 5pm-10pm, are TIRED and go to bed. They don't have time to hang out on school nights.

Saturday & Sunday nights are another story. What does everyone think about kids staying out past 10pm on Sat & Sun night????????

Has anyone noticed increased police cars. My friend asked me about it the other day. I wasn't talking about police or anything with him, he just suddenly mentioned it.

Troy

Curfews work the "criminals," don't follow the curfews so they r the ones out at 1 and then they r the ones caught they break the curfew so they r the ones caught it works.

btw i asked a bunch of friends and they didn't seem to mind at all the majority of us "kids,"don't really care

So the kids don't mind?

But that's not the point.

Every piece of freedom taken from us, no matter who it impacts, will lead to ever more erosions of our liberty.

There are other ways to control crime, without having to infringe on anybody.

The blind exceptance of laws like this is why we have the corrupt government we do.
Because people always miss the big picture.

Enjoy the future, you deserve it...

AP&F...

[edit on 13/7/2005 by ANOK]

According to the city ordinance: "No parent, guardian or other adult person...shall allow such person to be on the streets or sidewalks or on or in any public property or public place within the city...."

You've got to be joking, give me a freaking break!

I can't believe anyone would support this curfew law. Just because you're on the streets at night, doesn't prove criminal intent. And 16 and 17 is a little old to be treated like a child. When I was 17, I was expecting my first child and had been married for a year. I also went to school, worked and was very responsible. I suspect I'm not the only mature teenager who's ever lived.

Curbing freedom well not force morality, on the contrary, it will breed rebellion!

I say lets divide the country. All you people eager to have your rights taken away, can live on one side and the rest of us can take our chances on the other.

[edit on 7/17/2005 by dollmonster]

Originally posted by dollmonster
I say lets divide the country. All you people eager to have your rights taken away, can live on one side and the rest of us can take our chances on the other.
[edit on 7/17/2005 by dollmonster]

Boy! That's the best solution I've heard yet!

Like you said, some 'kids' under 18 are responsible, some are not. Those who are not, and commit crimes should pay, but good, responsible kids who are living law-abiding lives should not have to suffer.

I have a huge beef with these blanket laws and ordinances that punish everyone because of the actions of a few. Are they too lazy to figure out who's guilty and punish them (or their parents)?

Personal accountability and responsibility are becoming ideals of the past. As long as people can push it off onto someone else they do. Parent your kids, don't count on the law to do it!

And those who would give up their rights so easily! Bah! That's a big part of what's wrong with this country today. You want your kids under a curfew? You enforce it. You're the parent. But don't force my kid to follow some inane rule because you can't handle yours!

[edit on 17-7-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Yeah, despite the pro's and con's on this issue, lets have those 140+ cities that do have curfew laws simply get rid of them. That will be just great would it not?

Personally, I agree....
Let's dump all the teenage curfew laws and simply replace them with strict and enforced parental responsibility laws, where the parents are held responsible for thier kids being out "running in the streets at all hours getting into trouble" violating laws, ordinances, and committing crimes. I'm sure that after they do some jail time or pay some hefty fines, they will get a better handle on their kids, won't they?

Down with curfew laws and up with enforced strict parental responsibility laws.

seekerof

[edit on 6-5-2005 by Seekerof]

a little 'cold fusion', seekerof. i completely agree with you.
l'd extend this truth of PERSONAL responsibility to members of organisations(government( +military) and corporate) who are 'innocent' because they are 'just doing their jobs', or 'victims' of 'systematic failure'.

Alot of police (at least in my town when i was 15) used curfew laws as an excuse to harass teens. We were constantly getting arrested for being out literally MINUETS after curfew. I think the issue with curfews goes beyond letting kids run the streets and goes to certain cops harassing a certain crowd that they dont like.

Billybob, you're quick to condemn parents and send them to jail for their children's misdeeds. I'm wondering how many teenagers have you actually raised?

I've have three adult children and my youngest is 15. I can tell you something about parents that you may not be aware of. Loving Parents feel responsible for every shortcoming of their child from birth and throughout their life. If their child isn't physically perfect or has emotional problems they blame themselves. If their child is socially backwards or slow in school, they blame themselves. If their child can't find love or happiness in their life, they agonize over what they could have done differently.

You think parents today should go to jail for crimes committed by their children bcause they aren't already held accountable for their kids actions. Think again. Parents have always financially responsibly for damages caused by minors living under their roof and society has always judged parents to blame for wayward children. Parent punish themselves with the ralization that they've failed in their duties to their child. But cruelest of all, is the incarceration of a child whom you love and desperately want to protect.

I know. My oldest son went to jail for participating in a fight that escalated out of control at a house party. Being the only one identified from a fight involving at least 20 others, He admitted to hitting a boy whose jaw was broken. Whether he was the one that actually broke his jaw was inconclusive. Nevertheless, He was hauled right off the field during football practice and thrown in jail. No one else from the fight was ever singled out for punishment, so my son, barely 18, was made an example of. Even his defense was flabbergasted by the Judge's ruling.

One year of medium security in county jail turned my football star son who dreamed of going pro, into a bitter young man. My heart broke.


As if jail time and $8,000 restitution wasn't enough, because he was 18 when he committed the crime, this felon will remain on my son's record for life. He never even got a chance to vote.

The laws are already unfair and inconsistent. Now some of you people want them stricter? Unbelievable