It's 10:05... Your Under Arrest Kid!

Hello my mindless sheeple friends at ATS I see your working hard for your masters spreading the programing they feed you everyday. I know you want everyone to drive the same car & live in the same size house, eat the same food & keep the same hours as you.

How about we just let the police arrest the minors who are out breaking real laws instead of creating more mindless blanket laws to bring you closer to your perfect ploice world where everbody thinks just like you & big brother controls your every move. Ir is it too much of an inconvienence to have to figure which minors are up to no good after 11 on Friday night - I guess so why don't we just arrest them all & then arrest their parents for not going along with the program. Obey your masters, Obey your masters, Obey, Obey & tell others why they should obey too.

You're the same mindless sheeple who let them close the park early that I pay taxes to use, so I can't go sit on the beach at midnight and watch a meteor shower just because someone might decide to break the rules and have a party or make too much noise & nobody wants to enforce those laws so instead we just close the park to everyone - then everyone who uses the park after midnight is a criminal. Obey the law, Obey your masters.

I can't drink a beer on the beach because someone might get intoxicated and we can't enforce that law either because it's too much of a hassle & we can't have people relaxing in public places so we just made it illegal for everyone to have a beer on the beach. Eat some fat, eat some sugar, have a coke, drink your coffee, stay home, work, watch tv, pay your taxes & obey the law - even when it doesn't make sense anymore..

I know your kind, you always promote the laws that will never apply to you, you drive 60 in the fast lane because you think it's your job to help control everyone else, you even speed up when they dare to try & pass you in another lane, you're the creator of crimes like road rage, when you can't creat criminals of others to bring yourself up you promote new laws of things that were not crimes in the past, now it's our kids, or the immigrants, in the past it was the blacks, before that the it was indians. You sheeple are deaf, dumb, blind & pathetically weak- your a voluntary slave and you assist in the enslavement of others to feel better about yourselves.



[edit on 9-5-2005 by outsider]

Originally posted by DeusEx
....Oh noes, not our freedom of movement! Really, the legit reasons for a fifteen year old to be walking around are pretty few....

No, not too many 15 yr olds have a reason to be out past midnight.
But do you really think enacting more restrictions and laws on society are going to solve our crime problems? OK, so what if most crime is carried out at night? If a bored 15 yr is in a mood to cause trouble you think that mood slips away with daylight? I was not allowed out late when I was 15 either, but I guarantee you I made up for it during the day.
Our law system in itself creates the criminal mentality, read some Cat Farmer man...
We gotta look past the reactionary impulse ingrained in all of us to jump around sticking band aids everywhere, and see the full picture.

The more laws and restrictions there are,
The poorer people become.
- Lao Tsu, Tao Teh Ching

...Throughout history, it's been proven that people are idiots. They are irresponsible, violent, and greedy....

Relax man, blowing a fuse there. I was just making a point. Of course adults abuse their "priviledge"(sic) of no curfews. "Most people caught are between 16-24", adults have leaned to not get caught.
Maybe we should put a curfew on politicians, most of them are criminals and do far more damage than any group of teenagers.

And you know that 16-24 age group has left home and is out working for a living in most countries?
America has a lot of problems, one of which is stereotyping.
So most criminals are 16-24 and you're saying we should not allow any of them to go outside during certain hours of the day?
Again I ask who's next?

....I am making the assumption that you support criminal activity because you are clearly against any police or governmental control on the citizenry....

Yes but my reasons are political not criminal. Pls don't confuse politics with crime. Unless of course in the case of politicians being criminals, then that's a given of course.

....If we keep on bailing out the basement without fixing the holes then eventually we are gonna drown in our own #...

....Why not pick out the people reveling in it? People profit every day from suffering."Yes, I'm a parent, my kids should be home by a certain time.....

Yes and and Pfizer Inc. wouldn't have so much money if people didn't buy their drugs. At least the biker gangs don't artificially create and perpetuate their markets. Who are the real criminals? And that's not a trick question.
I wish people would think for themselves instead of taking the states version of reality as Gospel.
I agree the parents are to blame, so why curfew the kids? Fix the parents! DOH! Of course we agree it's not as easy as that though....right?

....Yeah, really, that would apply if we were living in a fascist state...

LOL, this one is good...So how far do they have to go before you would consider this a fascist system?
Let's see...

1. Create an atmosphere of anti-liberalism and anti-communism....Done
2. Create a new nationalist authoritarian state....Done
3. Have an empire goal....Done
4. Extreme stress on the masculine principle....Done
5. Exaltation of youth....Done
6. Have a tendency toward an authoritarian, charismatic, personal style of command....Done
7. Positive evaluation of and use of violence....Done
8. Create a terrorist situation and then use it as an excuse to invade another country....Done.
9. Enact curfews on the population....In process.

There are many more but my point is made.

You obviously know little of what fascism is. Hitler is used as the poster boy for fascism, it's designed that way. Just like Manson became the poster boy for Hippies. Control. Anything that could be a threat to the status quo is controlled. An horrendous act usually does it. Manson-Hippies, Sid Vicious-Punk Rock, McVeigh-Militias, koresh-Any autonomous group. See what I'm getting at? They don't have to drag people out of their houses for the political system to be fascist. Our leader doesn't have to have a funky moustache.

We are fed these stereotypical views on everything for a reason, to hide the truth. To keep people from having the desire to look deeper. Allows people to learn to except the easy answer, even if that answer is a lie.
Because most people are most comfortable when they think like everyone else. It makes them feel like they must be smart and "with it" if their friends think like them or something. So it's easy to induce a very basic simple thought pattern into the population. Because people are looking for that simple answer. They don't care if it's a lie as long as they are comfortable and their friends agree with them.
For example it's more comfortable to believe that our government is invading Iraq to protect our "freedom" than to believe the truth. Gosh, think of the implications of that.

Anyway sorry getting off topic. The freedom to go where you want when you want is not a privilege, it should be a right. I think kids are kept purposely immature in this country but that's for another thread. Most of you don't go into full time employment till your 22 or more. Most European 16 year olds are more mature than most 22 year old Americans. Maybe if you all fixed that problem then the other problem might go away also.

Oh..you are sooo wrong on so many levels dude. First of all, the law DOES apply to me. Lets see....Im the parent of a 15 and 8 year old. Second of all, I dont have to worry about car loads of drunk and high kids screwin with my personal property.

You are the one whos eyes need opening. This isnt a law that is made to harass anyone. Do you really think the cops want to spend all night hunting teenagers? Please. Rather, its a law that is meant to be used when necesary.

And you and your friggin beer need to stay in the house or at a bar. When me and kids are at the beach, why should they be subjected to drunken people? I dont drink at all. I am completly opposed to alcohol in anyway. Its pure poison for your body. Pure.

Not preaching, as by looking at my name, you should have a clue. But see, its never in front of or around my kids. Its called respect. Drinking belongs in private or a bar.

I live not 10 minutes from lake michigan. We banned it here for good about 10 years ago. To much trash left over. To many DUIs and accidents. Parties of 100s of people clogging streets and making it impossible for FAMILIES to enjoy a day there. They first let one beach have it. That beach banned it 2 years laters because of the cost, time and liability to allow it. Keep ur beers at home.

I drive 60 so as to not get tickets. Plus, if you ever lost someone to an accident caused by speed, you'd understand. Maybe if someone killed your kid because THEY were speeding, you'd understand even better. Maybe if NOTHING happened to the driver other than a ticket and a license suppension, you'd understand A LITTLE MORE! Watch your step with me, cuz your real close to the edge!

This is not a society based on individual rule. Its a society based on majority rule. Instead of bitching and screaming on the outside, try changing it from the inside. Otherwise, people might be prone to think that your nothing more than ignorant, opinionated jerk-off and write you off...
just sayin...

You can't have it both ways.

You're either for "freedom", which means you allow the right of others to do as they wish. (If they abuse that freedom then there ARE consequences.)
Or you're for "authoritarian control" which means you can enact laws to prevent other people doing things you don't like.
Is it a crime to sit on the beach and drink a beer?
Only if YOU make it one.
Is there a problem with people drinking beer on the beach, only if YOU make it one.
Open your mind and you can find other ways to fix your problems than with laws and restrictions.

[edit on 9/5/2005 by ANOK]

Okay what happens to people like me, Insomniac and Night owl who likes to take a strowl outside at night. Should I be arrested for taking a walk.
Really why dont we have parents keep an eye on kinds for once. In america we cannot blame parents, no matter what we will not blame parents. I have showed better call in alot of situations then most adults have and yet I am stryotyed for being a teenager. I know people who should be arrested becouse they smoke pot, drink, etc.
Also people are thinking kids are vulnrable . I am 6'2 180 pounds and I know how to use sharp objects. Parents should inforce curfew and not waist police time with catching people who have a good reason to be somewhere. at night. Enforce policy like this in bad nieghborhoods but my god not in Gated communites and Nice Suberbs.
For the Record I am 15 and have never done anything illegal besides taking a walk at 3.00 am as I could not sleep and I needed solitude.

Sorry about the extra bad spelling my keyboard needs cleaning.

Wow Anok, you're pretty damn intuitive.

by spliff
It's a law that is meant to be used when necesary

Yeah, that's the same line used for almost every new law these days. The bottom line is it's an uneccessary law ripe for abuse. When abusing citizens is the law then nobodys doing anything wrong right?

No, spliff the law does not apply to you because you don't let your kids out after 10 on a school night & yes I respect you for that. I'm not going to get into every little scenario about why some good kids might be out past 10, but I'm sure we can all make a list longer than a page as well as making list of the bad things that can happen when laws like this are abused - not just the dramatic ones like little girls being raped by their jailors, because she got a flat tire after her shift at burger queen and was caught out too late. In my opinion laws like this do more harm then good.

I think 99% of adults agree our kids don't belong out on the street past 10PM on a school night 98% of the time. That's not at all the issue here.

When me and kids are at the beach, why should they be subjected to drunken people?

Again we agree. You and your kids should not be subject to drunken people while at the beach. I rarely get drunk (I can recall every instance in my life) and if I brought a beer to the beach I doubt I would ever drink more than 3 & more likely I'd have one with lunch and another at the end of the day more likely 1 1/2 or two would fit the bill. Just because a minority % of the population has no self control I either have to drink a non-alcoholic beverage or I have to pour it in a special cup and hide it like an underage kid. Yeah - just like you spliff sometimes I break the laws when I don't agree with them. BTW - this is mostly an American phenomenon & most beaches in most parts of the world this isn’t an issue & the majority of people behave without such draconian laws.

I drive 60 so as to not get tickets

I too drive at or close to the speed limit to avoid tickets & most of all for my safety & that of others. But when I'm in the passing lane & I see someone coming up behind me if I can move aside and let them pass without creating an incident I do so and they move happily along their way unmolested by me & I continue my journey at my chosen pace. When I drive I do my best to have as little effect on other drivers as possible I use the accelerator to get up to speed when entering the freeway so as not to make them hit their brakes, I use the off ramp do decelerate when possible so as not to create the domino effect and make everyone hit their brakes. It's just common courtesy. Some people just have a need to control others - I don't. When someone wants to park and I'm leaving my parking space I try to move quickly so that they can park - some folks do the opposite & drag their butts because they like the power of making others wait - it's their big contribution to mankind their too weak to make moves in other ways so their only motive is to block others from moving freely.

That's one thing I love about Europeans - they know how to drive & they don't even think twice about moving aside. Of course they don't have to drive because they have a decent train system, but the ones that do drive just don't have the stupid hang-ups that Americans seem to have when driving.

Look kid, if you want to take a "walk" at 3am, your right..who cares...Thats not the problem here. The problem is when 4 or 5 of you want to take a walk, that leads to checkin peoples car doors to see if their open, or spray painting peoples garages, etc. When the cops see a group of teens at midnight, now they can stop em and find out whats goin on, and take appropriate measures. Im sorry, but kids dont belong out that late.

As far as the beer thing..its not the majority that want just one or two. Its the majority that want to have parties of 100s of people on the beach gettin wasted and ruining it for all. This isnt an opinion, its fact. I lived with it. I saw it EVERYTIME I went there. It was non-stop. It has NO PLACE there.

Like you said, if you want one or 2, then, bring em, and hide them. Kids dont need to see that. Let em be kids.

Originally posted by ANOK
You can't have it both ways.

You're either for "freedom", which means you allow the right of others to do as they wish. (If they abuse that freedom then there ARE consequences.)
Or you're for "authoritarian control" which means you can enact laws to prevent other people doing things you don't like.
Is it a crime to sit on the beach and drink a beer?
Only if YOU make it one.
Is there a problem with people drinking beer on the beach, only if YOU make it one.
Open your mind and you can find other ways to fix your problems than with laws and restrictions.

[edit on 9/5/2005 by ANOK]

Holy bat tyrds!!! where do I start!!

Ok, all or none huh? that's a load of crap.
So your saying we should either have strictly enforced speed limits that rate tickets if you're one mile over in a 15 zone, or no speed limits at all.
That's the way I understood, correct me If Im wrong.

Also, According to your logic.....All have guns even 15 yr olds or nobodyhas guns.

everybody gets a drivers license or nobody.....it's all about restriction right?
all or none.....

Well I think we pretty much agree spliff, we just disagree on how to go about it.

Yeah, most of us know we allowed those laws to be created in order to keep kids from getting into trouble & to not allow noisy dangerous drunken parties on the beach etc. The problem I have in doing so we leave the door open for some to abuse those laws.

Most of us don't have a problem with a guy having on beer in an unmarked cup on the beach with his fried chicken & potato salad and we know that the no alcohol rule was not created to go after that guy - but now we have these folks that either don't understand why those laws were created or there was a hidden agenda when those laws were created in order to allow enforcement to give that guy a $500 fine for having that cup of beer on the beach.

Believe it or not I've seen them hide in the parking lot with binoculars & walk around & check the garbage cans for empty beer containers so they can zero in on the guilty party and hand out their fine. At my family picnic they were eyeing my 80+ year old granmothers coffee cup (if your wondering yep - my grandma had a beer at the beach - & no we don't let her drive beer or not). These people are over the top and that's why I don't support blanket type laws & rules. . Now - we have our picnics at a family owned beach so we can drink our beers unmolested. Most don't have that choice & I support those who don't.

Ever wonder how much litter is the result of open container laws. Instead of going after intoxicated folks - anyone with an empty beer can in the back seat even if bone dry and days old can cost you hundreds of dollars. Another stupid blanket law that does more damage than good.

Yeah, we find ways to beat them like parking your moterhome in the lot & of course what's a motorhome with out some beer on tap or at least a couple cold ones in the fridge. Yep - we put up curtains & tint our windows so we can take a quick hit, or sip without them seeing us & then they make window tinting illegal for their safety.

I apologize for getting a bit off subject folks.

Here's a prime example for you of what I'm talking about.

I purchased concert tickets to go to an outdoor venue this summer & listen to one of my favorite bands. It is illegal to drink alcohol in the free parking lot before the show and the local sheriffs deputies in that county strictly enforce it. They walk around & handout several hundred $250-300 tickets before every show I've ever been too. Note - they don't hand out tickets in the lot after the show right before people are about to drive home. Hmm is it really about safety?

If you walk in to the show area early you can buy as many beers or drinks as you like at $6 a pop with the selection limited by the promoters or sponsors. You can also get around getting fined for drinking by paying $30 fee and park your car in the lot on the other side reserved for campers though you don't have to camp you won't be fined for drinking before the show in that lot.

If it was a football game or baseball game I could leave the area for whatever reason & be re-admitted on with your same ticket. If it's a concert you will not be allowed back in on the same ticket - so again we're forced to be creative.

If you're not in the catered suites crowed you can still drink and eat what you want or grab a smoke if you buy an extra ticket. Yep, I learned along time ago - if there's cheap seats available after you get your good seat buy an extra so you can have unmollested free movement to & from the venue - they have to allow you back in with a new ticket- where there's a will there's always a way, but it all boils down to who can afford to pay. Whle I'm guilty of not planning enough to be in the suites crowd I do have a plan for everything I do.




[edit on 9-5-2005 by outsider]

And again, make all the laws you want, doesn't mean anyone will follow it. Whole point of being a criminal is to break the law. So making a law to stop criminals is stupid, for criminals break the law.

And we're all criminals unless we give them enough money & jump through the hoops to continue living unmolested by them. If you're not paying enough of your labor (working time) to them (slavery) you will be labeled a criminal & go to jail (prisoner). Who are the real criminals? (them) Is it that hard for you to see. (not you james- I know you know)


[edit on 9-5-2005 by outsider]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And again, make all the laws you want, doesn't mean anyone will follow it. Whole point of being a criminal is to break the law. So making a law to stop criminals is stupid, for criminals break the law.

YAYYYY NO LAWS!!!! So people can break into your house and still all that you have and not get into trouble because there are no LAWS!!!
YAYYYY!n We can't call them criminals because there are no laws to be broken....so who's a criminal?

Wait a minute..James you don't own a house do you? so what do you care you're not paying for all that you have?

Yeah!! No Laws........Men can rape women and still cattle....becasue there are no laws. People earn there money to buy food and support kids, but who cares we can still it..NO LAWS!!! I cant get into trouble..cause it's not a law!!!!!

I dont agree with cufews and peosonaly i think the PARENTS should be controlling their kids- why leave it to the government?

Originally posted by SportyMB

YAYYYY NO LAWS!!!!

Ah - here we go. Someone from the pro-slavery camp to add some disinformation to the thread.

Just exactly which post here or what person is asking for NO LAWS? Mr. Sporty? Oh, you can't find anyone to demonize today.

So, what part of our bloated justice system are your part of? Are you a Meter maid who's contributes nothing of value to society other than handing out fines to support your postition. Or are you an attorney looking for more cases so you can send your kids to an Ivy league school. Or are you a high school dropout working as a jailor because you couldn't handle working on your daddy's farm?

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe your just one of the sheeple and for that I'm sorry for you & your offspring.



[edit on 9-5-2005 by outsider]

Originally posted by SportyMB

Holy bat tyrds!!! where do I start!!

Ok, all or none huh? that's a load of crap.

Well you could start by learning the difference between a right and a privilege.

How can you equate driving a car or gun ownership with freedom of movement? Two different discussions I'm afraid.

We are talking about curfews here, please don't spread my opinion on that to other things we are not discussing. You can't take my opinion on one issue and pin it on another totally different one and then accuse me of something.
My opinion on those issues are completely different and separate to the curfew issue, thank you.

The privilege of having a drivers licence or a gun is earned. The right to freedom of movement should not have to be.
If you can't see the difference here then it would take too long to explain.

How old are you? What if your age group suddenly became the big criminal group? Would you support a curfew of yourself? Would you do it without question? Wouldn't you say "but I'm not a criminal, why should I be on curfew?"...Well would you? Or would you be the model sheep citizen and do as told because it's the "law"?

I love to think in black and white,
All things good and all things right,
All the rules I can recite,
I live up to my stereotype.

I let them tell me what to think,
'Cause I don't want to be considered pink,
I'm no commie, no not me,
I'm American proud and free.

And we're the best, we're number one,
We stole our land with a smoking gun,
We genocide the natives and say "we won!"
Then built up the beast to reach the sun.

Then they knocked it down so all can see,
The power they have over you and me.

[edit on 9/5/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by outsider

Originally posted by SportyMB
YAYYYY NO LAWS!!!!

If you read my previous post in this thread you will know that I am for curfews but only as a means of punishment for people (mainly teens) who deserve it. Being late for school, drinking and driving, running away, doing drugs under age....give em a curfew. They need it since the parents won't take action.

And to answer your question no I'm not a meter maid (too boring, same crap over and over again) not an attorney (too much paperwork) and I don't have kids and not for awhile. Im not a high school dropout working as a jailor (too local, not enough excitement). Last but not least my parents never had a farm.....not that many where I went to high school at.

Maybe I'm wrong

Yes you are!!

BTW, where did pro-slavery camp come from? and who do I demonize?

Peace

Would you do it without question? Wouldn't you say "but I'm not a criminal, why should I be on curfew?

Read my previos post

[edit on 9/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 9/5/2005 by SportyMB]

So Anok, at what age should this right to freedom of movement begin? at birth?

One more time:
The implementation and subsequent strict enforcement of parental responsibility laws will solve the problem.
Stiff fines and 24-72 hour jail times will get those parents and children/teenagers into tip-top shape. Bet.





seekerof

Originally posted by HowardRoark
So Anok, at what age should this right to freedom of movement begin? at birth?

I don't know Howard, at what age does freedom begin?

You are the one who obviously wants to put restrictions on it. Because you're scared of other people. You would be more comfortable if every one was in jail or house arrest. Because everyone is a potentail criminal right? Especialy if you're between the ages of 16 and 24. Were you ever that age Howard?

Originally posted by ANOK
You are the one who obviously wants to put restrictions on it. Because you're scared of other people. You would be more comfortable if every one was in jail or house arrest. Because everyone is a potentail criminal right? Especialy if you're between the ages of 16 and 24. Were you ever that age Howard?

Excuse me? "Because you're scared of other people. "



Where is a curfew applied to anyone over the age of 18?