"The fog behind the curtain"

Originally posted by Hlodde
Well I would love to take up that challenge. See if I could handle the truth. Would anyone care to elaborate on how I may find the truth to this fictional world we all live in? I would love to see if I have the intellect to handle it.

Thanks in advance!

Try reading The Conversation with God books, by Neal Donald Walsch, and the "Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot.

The Walsch books are excellent read, and portray what I have concluded for myself to be one of the most accurate descriptions of our reality. One of the books also made a prediction of people attempting to get rid of Clinton about 4 years before the whole Lewinsky scandal.


The Holographic Universe I haven't read as yet, but I've heard and read reviews saying that it's an excellent book and might have the most accurate scientific portrayal of our reality.

But I did read this article though, it's about the same theory, developed by David Bohm (student of Einstein) and Karl Pribram; independantly of each other they came to the same conclusions.

Awsome! Thank you very much.

[edit on 26-4-2005 by TheBandit795]

I agree that mengaurd could have been a little less vauge, but here are my views on the subject and the items you listed 1-6.

1st: I should align earth with the spiritual realm. (Let me know the 1st step in that trick)

I have found that the best way for me to do this through alchemy. Not the alchemy that tried to transform lead into gold but the alchemy that sought enlightenment.
For more information try this link (the method used by the first alchemists was the psychological method, which also encompased the spiritual method):

www.spiritofra.com...


2nd: I should come to the realization that the earth and spiritual realm are the same

Again, for an explanation of this I turn to alchemy. In the Emerald Tablet it is stated that "That which is above corresponds to that which is below and that which is below corresponds to that which is above." In other words, things in the spiritual realm have properties of the material realm and things in the material realm have properties of the spiritual realm. Everything is connected.


3rd: Good and Evil both evolve in this spiritual realm then happen here on earth. (school shootings, world trade center)

Anything involving change in the spiritual world requires the presence of will. What I get from what mengaurd said was that before there is change in the physical world, there must first be a change in the spiritual world of will. A person concieves of crashing a plane into the trade centers; he wills himself to take the steps necessary for it to happen; it happens.


4th After I come to this realization I should really think hard

This isn't too hard to understand. Basically, meditate on how the previously mentioned concept affects the way the world works and how you percieve that it works.


5th This may drive me mad

The reason that a realization may drive a person mad is because it has the potential to change the way that the person views the world. This new perspective can be overwhelming. Kinda like the stock market crash. Some people could cope with it. Others saw their entire world (or at least what they percieved to be their world) was falling appart and promptly killed themselves (usually by jumping out of office buildings). Generally, when a person's perceptions of the world fall apart, they don't take it too well.

6th: My conclusions will differ from the next person who has attempted that same thing.

All paths lead to one. Your conclusion will lead you along the path that would best suit your spiritual disposition and further your developement. Mine could lead me on a course separate from yours but both would be working towards the same cause, what the alchemists called the Great Work.


Like I said, he could've been a lot more clear. I also could be wrong in my interpretation. But, a good philosopher will fail many times before succeeding.

"I seek out those that aleady know." thank you Daniel for making it clearer for some.

Originally posted by menguard
"I seek out those that aleady know." thank you Daniel for making it clearer for some.

Menguard I have some questions for you.

Why would you only seek out people that already know whatever it is your describing? Why not share and bring this higher state of mind to other people?

Could you explain if what your describing is more scientific ie "holographic universe" or more spiritual/state of mind.

Could you respond in a way that someone such as myself that hasn't reached this state of mind could understand.

Originally posted by Hlodde

Originally posted by menguard
"I seek out those that aleady know." thank you Daniel for making it clearer for some.

Menguard I have some questions for you.

Why would you only seek out people that already know whatever it is your describing? Why not share and bring this higher state of mind to other people?

Could you explain if what your describing is more scientific ie "holographic universe" or more spiritual/state of mind.

Could you respond in a way that someone such as myself that hasn't reached this state of mind could understand.

Do'nt get frustrated with him...He quotes the Crow for Chris-sakes, a comic book!!!!!

You want a better idea of what the illusion is which we call reality. STUDY! It takes years. Study everything you can. From history, to languages, to religion, to the history of religions. Study hinduism, early christian texts, gnosticism, Creation myths from around the world. Try to piece together the human puzzle yourself. You might come across some interesting information

It would become apparent; if you are spiritually inclined that is, that we humans do possess another side (spiritual), other than the physical state that we have become so obsessed with. It would also seem as if there has been a deliberate and conscience effort to hide the true nature of this information from the masses.

What truth is,what reality is....No one can tell you, and anyone who claims they can PROBABLY wants something from you (money obedience, etc). We are all capable of reaching our spiritual potential, but thousands of years of lies, and dis-information has made it rather difficult at this time....and it would seem as if each of us are on our own. So do what you can.....and try to learn as much as possible about as much as possible......

As for the possibility of this supposed "truth"driving you mad.......I can't say that it isn't a possibility. When you start to know the history of things, and you start to notice patterns in politics, customs, cultures, holidays, symbolism, etc, that remain unchanged for thousand of years. One does start to feel as if they are going mad, it's as if you are the only one noticing these things. After a while of studying, something as mundane as a corporate logo takes on an entirely different meaning, once you know the history of the company itself and the family behind it. People will tell you that you are reading too much into things, yet you will still see the patterns. Once again you have to rely on yourself.........

Oh and a hint of advice, if I may.....DO NOT START WITH , NOR QUOTE FROM COMIC BOOKS.

[edited for additional point]

[edit on 30-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

The quote is more than adequate.u2ue me Hlode on the specific questions and I will answer them.But it's a perspective out of six billion others.You will know truth when you hear it and feel it.

Originally posted by menguard
The quote is more than adequate.u2ue me Hlode on the specific questions and I will answer them.But it's a perspective out of six billion others.You will know truth when you hear it and feel it.

C'mon...You can't blame me.

You start the thread with veiled comments about how you have seen the true nature of reality and all it encompasses, yet you quote a comic book.

Are you really that surprised at my reaction?

Not saying the quote you gave means absolutely nothing at all. You must realize though when dealing with spiritual matters, not many will rely on quotes from comic books as an authority.

You should not expect them to either.

I didn't mean to ridicule you. And I am sorry if I did (which I know I did)

I haven't used it a an authority, I just think their is a lot of truth to it.And if you don't post why?

Originally posted by menguard
I haven't used it a an authority, I just think their is a lot of truth to it.And if you don't post why?

I am confused as to the nature of your question? Seriously I do not understand what you are asking of me.

Do I think that the crow is an adequate reference to quote when discussing spiritual matters? No!

Do I think that you are correct that our vision of reality is flawed? Yes!

I just do not think comic books should be quoted as any kind of "authority" that's all

Do I find your remarks to those who ask sincere questions condescending? Yes! I am sorry if I am assuming, but that is the way it appears.

Someone asked you a serious question reguarding something that you claim to know the nature of, and you shrug them off as if they were vermin , non deserving of even an answer. That is what I think is wrong.

If you think you have figured something out. Try to help those that ask you of it. Do not dismiss their sincere questions as something that is not worth your time

[edit on 30-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

I thought the quote had went with the thread.Sometimes you will find truth in the least expected places.

Originally posted by menguard
I thought the quote had went with the thread.Sometimes you will find truth in the least expected places.

Good point Man! And like I said, I don't think there was no relevance to your point whatsoever.

Sheitze I find meaning in bread bags, so who am I to say?

All I was trying to say was, that someone asked you a sincere question, and you shrugged them off like: "You don't know what I do, so I am not going to talk to you"

And that just seemed wrong to me. That's all

I think "menguard" is being a little odd but I'll share anyway.

Once, several years back as I was walking out to my car something strange happened to me that I can only explain as having the veil taken off. As I sat down in my car I was overwhelmed with this experience which lasted about 15 minutes and I had to push it away because I was on my way to work. But I was sobbing incoherantly the entire time because of what I was seeing and feeling. I have no way to describe it. I also have no way of getting it back. It was not drug or environmentally induced. I assume only that something was giving me that gift for that moment in time. I have tried several times to meditate and retrieve the sensation but it is simply impossible. It came on sudden and unintentionally. All I can say was that I was seeing everything that I only had belief or faith in before and it was the most aweful and terrific thing ever. Really horrible. You don't know what it's like to KNOW what you only BELIEVED before. It's horrifying.

It's too bad that most people think you need to meditate or take drugs to induce these states, if it is reality you seek, you should be able to do it from a clear state of mind. I honestly think that this experience was actually brought on by a conversation I had just had with someone a few minutes before leaving the house. They told me about some strange things they'd seen. Maybe I'd just opened up my mind enough to possibilities to let the shroud fall off as I left the house. I don't know, that's my best guess. But I've never been able to get it back.

Incognita,

This sounds like you were feeling mother earth as a whole.Meaning you might have been feeling the sadness of our planet.And yet there is such a humble struggle to it all.An uprising is taking place in ourselves.Our mother earth is doing the best she can to balance us out.This is a big reason why there is so much natural disasters taking place.I believe she is doing them in spurts so the magnitude is lessened.She wants us to be at peace with ourselves.Our mother earth sustains us the best way she can.I feel sadness when a natural disaster takes place I can feel it in my solar plexus,then it goes to my crown chakra to my heart chakra.And the more receptive you become the more heightened the impression becomes in these areas.I don't recommend being to receptive.I'm glad you posted your experience on this. Thank you,Menguard

What this means is getting past the physcal into the spirit realm.Seeing energy as it flows in the universe.Hence the thread name,"The Fog Behind The Curtain."Everything looks misty or foggy like you are in a dream,therefore we are in a dreamers dream dreaming.

The curtain is the physical realm and then theirs the fog the spiritual realm.Once you can see past the curtain a new world opens up to you.

Originally posted by menguard
Incognita,

This sounds like you were feeling mother earth as a whole.Meaning you might have been feeling the sadness of our planet.And yet there is such a humble struggle to it all.An uprising is taking place in ourselves.Our mother earth is doing the best she can to balance us out.This is a big reason why there is so much natural disasters taking place.I believe she is doing them in spurts so the magnitude is lessened.She wants us to be at peace with ourselves.Our mother earth sustains us the best way she can.I feel sadness when a natural disaster takes place I can feel it in my solar plexus,then it goes to my crown chakra to my heart chakra.And the more receptive you become the more heightened the impression becomes in these areas.I don't recommend being to receptive.I'm glad you posted your experience on this. Thank you,Menguard

A Natural "disaster"is nothing more than an unpleasant effect of the earth, from the human perspective. There is nothing that implys disaster, except for the pitiful human instinct to live. "It is bigger, and stronger than us, it must be out to kill, and obliterate us!"......

That is nonsense! There are physical proofs of natural disasters that would make you Sheitze in deine Pantze, if you were alive at the time. There have been asteroids, massive volcanic eruptions, revearsals of the poles, months of darkness, and other "natural " phenomenon that you have never even been witness to, and could never imagine. So to claim that "mother earth"is crying out is a bit vague (IMHO)

The earth has signifigant functions that serve a higher purpose than any Geologist has ever imagined. Every thing we have found in Nature serves a purpose, and is part of the whole ecological system. From every single cellular organism, or bacteriae, to the "highest" functioning Primates, all serve a function. Including Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Asteroids, and whatever else you can imagine.

All natural disasters (even if they are to cleanse the planet of humans) Serve a function. To assume a spiritual or higher signifigance(IMHO) seems to be complicating the situation (I am particularly fond of Occams razor). Not everything is relative to us either. Perhaps we just get caught up in sheitze, no different from the Rats that live through Earthquakes as well?Hmmm?

I am not trying to be rude, but it would seem as if you would take the homo-centric perception of the effects of nature around you. As cold as it sounds.........perhaps all this phenomenomae has NOTHING to do with humans , or you , whatsoever.

Originally posted by menguard
Once you can align our world as it truly is,this of course being the spiritual realm.You will see that the other world coincides with this one.Things happen in the spiritual realm before they manifest into our physical reality.You will have to search deep and hard to find truths.And yes some are thought to have gone mad.But how many perspectives are out there?

Agreed, the madness is purifying all the crap that people try to convince us is real, such as new cars, houses..etc.
I try to keep in mind, if I cannot take it with me when I go, then I am only borrowing.....

You don't have to believe in something to make it true.
How do you explain the color blue to a man born blind? You can try, and that is what Mengaurd is doing. Some may even find an association to self-evident truths.

The world is a dream, not conventionally, but nonetheless, it is created by multilateral expressions of consciousness that is more infinite than our finite minds have been indoctrinated to understand. Mengaurd isn't isolating this "so-called" truth to the special people, but for the people that have an open mind to the wizard behind the curtain. All truth is self-evident to the soul that isn't plagued by the ego/material world.

We are all conditioned to be stubborn towards the unknown. We must first unlearn before we may ever truly learn.

Great effort Mengaurd.

AAC

Interesting thread here,I like that article that describe how our brain can hold so much information and work at instantaneous speed,Like we are all connected to the universe too as a hologram. The way a Spider in a web can feel the fly on the otherside instantly.It's possible we are all connected by threads of energy or some kind of dark matter.I refuse to believe the world is a fake dream,I won't be stepping in front of a train to find out if it hurts or not.