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What I REALLY wanna know...

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posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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There was a point in the EA where you are asked a question....

I REALLY want to know what would have happened had I said "Lucifer the lightbringer"...

I've always wondered...

Any ideas?

Would things have progressed as normal? Would it have stopped right there and I booted out the door? They say it matters not whom you place your faith, so long as it's in a higher power.. Right?

How would somebody so openly Luciferian fair in Masonry?





[edit on 19-4-2005 by ElectricCrow]




posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricCrow
There was a point in the EA where you are asked something like
"In whom do you put your trust"

I REALLY want to know what would have happened had I said "Lucifer the lightbringer"...


That's what the cable-tow is for.



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ElectricCrow
There was a point in the EA where you are asked something like
"In whom do you put your trust"

I REALLY want to know what would have happened had I said "Lucifer the lightbringer"...


That's what the cable-tow is for.


Quite right too


I have been asked by different people whether worshippers of an 'evil God' would be allowed to join freemasonry. Although they would possibly pass the requirement of a belief in a Supreme being they would have serious difficulties with the obligation in the third degree. Also, they would have to be sound of mind and strict of morals.

I acknowledge that the names Satanist, Devil Worshipper and Luciferian all mean different things to different people. I would argue that if an individual satisfies the full criteria for membership as well as the investigating committee of his genuine desire to join FM and that he and his beliefs would fit in just fine, then his God cannot be evil.



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 02:13 AM
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I suspect you would be viewed as being foolishly uncooperative. I know that in the organizations to which I belong, such behavior during initiation would be:

1) in the first case, be considered in seriously poor taste and cause for the initiation to be halted whilst a reconsideration of your petition was conducted and

2) in the second case would be considered de facto evidence that you were spiritually, mentally, or constitutionally unfit for initiation.


I suspect in most Lodges, this would be viewed as simply an act in poor taste. Afterall, you *are* prompted. And inquiry as to your religious beliefs and practices will have been made by the investigating committee, no?

Besides, the chance to make your plug for Light comes just a little later.



posted on Apr, 19 2005 @ 03:48 AM
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"The scholars authorized by the militantly Catholic King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated from the Catholic Vulgate Bible produced largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and - ironically- the Prince of Darkness."

"So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.""

www.masonicinfo.com...

The word Lucifer according to most who have studdued is an error in translation.

however the question you would be asked is , "do you believe in a supreme being" if then you answer Satan or Lucifer , creatures that fell to earth from heaven, after being cast out.

How then can they be supreme, if they got their ( hey my word has been deleted ?) kicked.

[edit on 19-4-2005 by billmcelligott]



posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Very nice response.




posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Heh, while I was being "felt out" by the cult I decided to make them think I was a LaVey Satanist and the original response was of amusement and "Wow, how interesting!"
Then they realised I was taking the p*ss and suggested that I would have to join an affiliated French Grand Orient Lodge because I was clearly an athiest.
On the other hand I told a Mason down the pub just after they had finally got the message and begun "kick off" (after nearly 6 months) that I was a LaVey Satanist (so she would just p*ss off and stop bothering me with her "I'm an athiest..." roleplay) and she "turned white."
It all depends on you exact lodge, if it's full of Southern Baptist "Christian Masons" then I don't think it would go down at all well.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by MrNECROS]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Heh, while I was being "felt out" by the cult I decided to make them think I was a LaVey Satanist and the original response was of amusement and "Wow, how interesting!"
Then they realised I was taking the p*ss and suggested that I would have to join an affiliated French Grand Orient Lodge because I was clearly an athiest.
On the other hand I told a Mason down the pub just after they had finally got the message and begun "kick off" (after nearly 6 months) that I was a LaVey Satanist (so she would just p*ss off and stop bothering me with her "I'm an athiest..." roleplay) and she "turned white."
It all depends on you exact lodge, if it's full of Southern Baptist "Christian Masons" then I don't think it would go down at all well.


You are a pathological liar, and you need to get help. That never happened, no masons would EVER do that, and I'm starting to really get pissed off about you continually lying about my fraternity. You have a serious mental problem, and you need to have something done about it, for your own sanity.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Yes and I'm sure Alister Crowley wasn't a Freemason either...
Sebatwerk, read my post again and try to tell me what part of my account that you find "impossible" and what part "no masons would EVER do that."

...hmmm maybe I should just turn the "Ignore" back on again?



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrNECROS
Yes and I'm sure Alister Crowley wasn't a Freemason either...
Sebatwerk, read my post again and try to tell me what part of my account that you find "impossible" and what part "no masons would EVER do that."

...hmmm maybe I should just turn the "Ignore" back on again?



No mason would force somebody to join if they did not want to. We do not want people in our fraternity who do not want to be in it, because they will bring dishonor into the brotherhood.

No mason would tell you to join a lodge if you were an atheist.

No mason would be interested if you told them you were a satanist. No mason would "turn white either. They might feel very sad for you, then ask you to leave. But that's about it.

By you telling me those things, I KNOW that they did not happen... masons just don't do that, they are forbidden from doing that. So, nice try but it won't work. We all see right through your sick, twisted lies.

And also, do you think I feel threatened by you? Do you think I care if you ignore me? You're nuttier than I thought.


[edit on 22-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerkYou are a pathological liar, and you need to get help. That never happened, no masons would EVER do that, and I'm starting to really get pissed off about you continually lying about my fraternity. You have a serious mental problem, and you need to have something done about it, for your own sanity.


Sometimes my brother it's better to keep our mouths shut and just let people spout off. Freemasonry doesn't need anyone to defend it as it is quite capable of defending itself with our silence. No need to either confirm or deny an obvious troll pushing just the right buttons to get your ire up.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by mrfixit]



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by mrfixit
Sometimes my brother it's better to keep our mouths shut and just let people spout off. Freemasonry doesn't need anyone to defend it as it is quite capable of defending itself with our silence. No need to either confirm or deny an obvious troll pushing just the right buttons to get your ire up.


Yeah, you're right. I guess I have yet to learn to subdue my passions. This is all silly, and I guess that, as masons, we should be above it. Your advice came at a good time. Thanks.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

You are a pathological liar, and you need to get help. That never happened, no masons would EVER do that, and I'm starting to really get pissed off about you continually lying about my fraternity. You have a serious mental problem, and you need to have something done about it, for your own sanity.


sebatwerk why is it whenever someone tells of something of a personal experiance with masonry, that does not sit well with you, that you must resond with the "pathalogical liar" bit? perhapes you personaly would have nothing to do with such things, this does not however mean that some other people would not.

also why should we consider YOUR version of the truth over other's versions of the truths? one of the things that i have come to understand, even though you personaly do not believe most if not all sources that are negitive to masanry are false, isd that ONLY those deemed worthy are given the TRUE information about it. that those who are not worthy are not to be trusted with the real truths.

i do have to wonder about how many have you and your fellow MASON TROLLS blocked. your group seems to be the most to insult any who do not share your views on this board. whenever there is a thread being negitive to masons you and your buddies swoop in throwing insults and calling people liers. your views are not paid much heed due to this. your actions just seem to sudjest that there is indeed stuff within masonary to be conserned with. after all why use such vennom in you replies, if things are so propper and above board.



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by drogo
your actions just seem to sudjest that there is indeed stuff within masonary to be conserned with. after all why use such vennom in you replies, if things are so propper and above board.


Actually, no. My actions show that myself, as well as other masons, are absolutely sick of people who DO LIE, and DO spread FALSITIES and SLANDER regarding Freemasonry. We're sick of people who slander men who have spent their lives trying their hardest to be the best person they can be. I have been a mason for a long time now, and I have been to lodges of all kinds and met masons of all kinds. If there's one thing I DO know A LOT about, is Freemasonry. And that's why I can VERY CONFIDENTLY say that what certain people on this forum claim IS NOT TRUE.

I have been deemed worthy of receiving the "secrets" of Freemasonry by a large lodge of masons. Some are what you would call "high-ranking" (33rd degree) masons, and they have given me all the information I have could have wanted. I KNOW what is real, and what is pure fantasy because I AM A FREEMASON (of the very real kind). If THIS does not sit well with you, then perhaps you should re-define what your definition of "truth" is.

It's funny how people who have never had ANYTHING to do with the fraternity style themselves as "experts" about Freemasonry, while discrediting every member who comes along and contradicts EVERYTHING they claim. It's the biggest joke on the planet that people who are not members believe they know more about a private fraternity than it's actual members.

And the only person who I have ever called a pathological liar is MrNECROS, because that is the impression that he gives me.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by drogo
sebatwerk why is it whenever someone tells of something of a personal experiance with masonry, that does not sit well with you, that you must resond with the "pathalogical liar" bit? perhapes you personaly would have nothing to do with such things, this does not however mean that some other people would not.


Well we can say with a substantial amount of certainty that Freemasons did NOT perpetrate the actions MrNECROS claims. It is preposterous, to say the least.



also why should we consider YOUR version of the truth over other's versions of the truths? one of the things that i have come to understand, even though you personaly do not believe most if not all sources that are negitive to masanry are false, isd that ONLY those deemed worthy are given the TRUE information about it. that those who are not worthy are not to be trusted with the real truths.


Oh, I don't know... Prehaps because the Masons here KNOW what Masonry is about? Masons can almost always speak for other Masons in that they are all on a similar page as far as the way the live their lives. The VAST majority of Masons are in it to better themselves, their families, and their communities. The allegations that are put forth by anti-Masons are usually ridiculous, and so those claims are treated as though they are ridiculous. It's really quite simple.


i do have to wonder about how many have you and your fellow MASON TROLLS blocked. your group seems to be the most to insult any who do not share your views on this board. whenever there is a thread being negitive to masons you and your buddies swoop in throwing insults and calling people liers. your views are not paid much heed due to this. your actions just seem to sudjest that there is indeed stuff within masonary to be conserned with. after all why use such vennom in you replies, if things are so propper and above board.


MASON TROLLS? Does that include me I wonder?

The only poster I can recall being called a pathological liar (other than by MrNECROS himself) is MrNECROS. Why? Because he is. He has been challenged time and time again to give proof of his accusations... Some Masons have even offered to help him to find the "Masons" (
) that supposedly did these things to him to bring them to "Masonic justice," but he has yet to provide anything but far our claims and libel. Slander, even.

As far as the others, well, they spout their crap but when it comes to serious discussion they tuck tail and run. You don't see me running from a discussion, so who's the troll?

Why don't you try answering my questions? Hmmm?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Civil discussion, no name-calling, no tit for tat, just people trying to figure out the other side's viwpoint. Hell, if you don't want to answer questions, pose some of your own... We will be happy to answer to the best of our abilities (I use the term "we" as in members of this board in support of Freemasonry and Freemasons.).

Go ahead; I am interested to hear your views.


[edit on 4/23/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 03:00 AM
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Interesting discussion here people, however we should tone it down and keep it civil....

I've spoken to MrNecros, and he believes what has happened to him is real....... as to myself, things that have happened to me is real to me too, problem being, I can't prove my accusations, so I keep a tight lip around the subject....

I would like to speak to a mason myself if possible via e-mail or U2U about my experience with which I believe the Masons were responsible for...... You may say thats my own paranoia, but I would like to discuss the objectives of freemasonry..... And hopefully convince me the masons have nothing to do with it, because all I can see are the masons being good men defending a good fraternity, however my own personal experience, if the masons were at fault, it means 'I' am the bad guy, which I hope is not the case.....

Kind Regards
Merger



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 03:48 AM
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Any of the freemasons posting to ATS, of which I am one, would be happy to talk to you. u2u me.



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 03:59 AM
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really dont see what the big deal about freemasonry is, both grandfathers are masons, and I've yet to see them ever do anything "Satanic" or whatnot.

unless of course just being a redneck republican equates evil?


of course there are many other collectives i'd be more weary about


"those damn shriners, always helping out kids wtf is wrong with them eh?"


ps: i'm addicted to voice chat so forgive any typing errors

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Lysergic]



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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I would like to thank the people that contact me with my request....... I have found someone who really made me understand my situation, and I thank him for that.

Kind Regards
Merger



posted on Apr, 23 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Merger
I would like to thank the people that contact me with my request....... I have found someone who really made me understand my situation, and I thank him for that.


Despite what people on this forum may tell you, a Freemason's duty is to help those that ask for help. We are taught that we become better men through being charitable and helping others.



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