In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

originally posted by: andy06shake
... the phrase is open to theological interpretation, ...

Yeah ... everyone interprets everything differently. That's true.
I gave you the standard 'most christians' interpretation.
(meaning all the Catholics and mainstream Protestants like
Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist).

a reply to: FlyersFan

I would be a lapsed protestant at best these days FlyersFan.

If I'm honest lip service at Christmas and Easter is about it.

I like the stories all the same, takes me back to the likes of Sunday School when i was a lad.

Just don't know how much veracity i would place in the entire shebang.

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat
This passage from John 1:1 has always moved me for some reason.

I've gotten away from the bible and religion of any kind over the past 15 years or so. But something compelled me to re-read this passage, and of course I read many others as well once I started.

I'm not a holy roller or bible thumper by any means.

But I feel as though I need to familiarize myself with these passages as they will be needed soon.

Soon.

God bless you all.

Ummm...and yet...in another thread on ATS today...you advocate the destruction of Iran...and..."going all in and leveling the place"...

Much as you've stated about the Palestinians as well...and further...the Russians...

It really makes me wonder...with your vocal advocacy of death and destruction visited on other persons...how you square that with your attempt to appear spiritual...and moved by..."The Word of God"...

Do you really comprehend the vast chasm of disconnect at play here...?


If...as you state that..." In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"...

And that..."God spake...and it was so"...then there must be an aspect of your mind that recognizes the inherent power in words...in the thoughts that shape them...in the voice that speaks them...and in the intent with which they were uttered...

If this is true to your heart...then why do you...with the power of your words...with the intent of your speech...and with the focus of your consciousness...vocalize and advocate the antithesis of the intent of a spiritual relationship with that which affected you enough that you chose to share it here...?

Remember...you stated..."God bless you all"...





YouSir

originally posted by: Albone
a reply to: andy06shake

Serious question, if I write a word or think of a word it makes no sound. Or am I missing a specific definition of the word?

Ummm...It doesn't need to make sonic vibrations...If you read a poem or lines in a book or article...and you are moved emotionally...vicariously...then you acknowledge the power inherent in the words...

It's the consciousness which perceives...that gives power to it's attempt to define...and it's the focus of the linking of these definitions which imbue words with the power to move...and be moved...

The consciousness impinges...manipulates...and focuses the quantum and sub quantum waves/vibrations and orders them into meaning...definition...and realism...

"God spake...and it was so"...

People speak...or write...or read...and their emotions are shaped by their consciousness as it impinges upon...and is impinged by...the intent of the words as they uttered them...or as they read them...either aloud...or within the comfort of their own inner self...



YouSir

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

God said, Let there be light, and there was light. When we look at the Genesis story, we find that God spoke creation into being. What is speaking if not the verbal use of words? I often get amazed that people don't read or study the Bible because of there abhorrence towards religion. Fine. I'm no fan of religion myself. But, in the end, it's a book, a collection of stories composed of, you guessed it, words. We are all characters in the Book of Life.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SchrodingersRat

In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Here is the problem i have with the statement from a logical standpoint.

Words require sounds, and sound, requires a medium to propagate.

Hence there must have been something before the word.

The English translations of the the Bible are just that, translations. "The Word" is only an approximate translation of "the Logos".

The earliest Christian texts of the Gospel of John were written in ancient 'Koine Greek', and so some of the meaning of the passage gets watered down if you use only the English translations.

If you read the rest of the passage, the "Word" (Logos) referred to in the passage became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ - "the Word" is clearly not referring to a sound. So, John the Apostle's Gospel is actually a fairly sophisticated mash-up of Jewish faith traditions, Greek philosophy and Christian theology.

In Hebrew literature, “the Word of God” was frequently used to describe the Hebrew scriptures. Jewish rabbis often referred to God (especially in His more personal aspects) in terms of His word. They spoke of God Himself as “the Word of God.” For example, ancient Hebrew editions of the Old Testament change Exodus 19:17 "Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God" to “Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet the Word of God.” In the mind of the ancient Jews, the phrase “the Word of God” could be used to refer to God Himself.

'The Logos', as a Greek concept, was introduced by the philosopher Heraclitus (c.550-480 BCE), followed by Protagoras (c.490–c.420 BCE) then Socrates (c. 470 – 399 BCE), then later by Plato (c. 428/423 – 348/347 BCE) and Aristotle (c. 384-322 BCE). Each presented their individual understanding of what it meant.

To Heraclitus, the Logos is the underlying balance, stability, and order of the universe. The Logos is the deified ‘hidden harmony’ that holds everything together.

Protagoras, however, saw the the Logos as an escape from any need for a god, at all, and it was rather an ‘ordering principal’ of nature (like the totality of all scientific laws).

To Plato and Aristotle, the Logos leaned towards being defined as ‘reason’ itself. With this interpretation, they implied there was a ‘right logos (reasoning), which led to virtue, and a ‘wrong logos’, that did not (Greek philosophy was 'big' on what 'virtue' meant).

Therefore, in this opening, John was saying to both Jews and Greeks: “For centuries you’ve been talking, thinking, and writing about the Logos, now I will tell you who He is".

The whole Gospel of John is far more than a narrative of 'things Jesus did', like the Synoptic Gospels, but seems to have been written with a document structure that would be more what I would expect from a University professor rather than for a fisherman. My personal belief is that John wrote his Gospel very late in his life, In Ephesus, where he returned after his time on the island of Patmos, and perhaps even after he wrote The Revelation?

The preamble for the Gospel of John, nicknamed the "Hymn to the Word", is just part of the example of the structure of the document, which, in John's own words was written "that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you may have life in His name". (John 20:31).

originally posted by: YouSir

Ummm...and yet...in another thread on ATS today...you advocate the destruction of Iran...and..."going all in and leveling the place"...

Much as you've stated about the Palestinians as well...and further...the Russians...

It really makes me wonder...with your vocal advocacy of death and destruction visited on other persons...how you square that with your attempt to appear spiritual...and moved by..."The Word of God"...

Do you really comprehend the vast chasm of disconnect at play here...?

He knows what he's doing. He also knows that most people don't care all that much about being deceived as long as it's something that tickles their ears. He can even show his true allegiance by rubbing it in people's faces by means of an avatar or accountname. They still won't catch on (most people).

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.”(1 Timothy 4:1,2).

“So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” (Revelation 12:9)

He also knows most won't "listen" to the information in the video below concerning John 1:1 (as Jesus used the word "listen" at John 8:43, see footnote). Why not? See Jesus' explanation at John 8:42-47, Matthew 13:13-15 and 15:7-9, quoted below the video (also, it's not 'tickling their ears', as described at 2 Tim 4:3,4; most people who profess to be Christians don't want to listen to Jesus when he's explaining something about them that they do not want to hear, and certainly not consider if it applies to them).

John 8:42-47

Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

Matthew 13:13-15

That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)

Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea (playlist)

I, for my part, will not stop being honest about the lies and "false stories" (2Tim 4:4) in the doctrines of men as taught by Christendom (counterfeit Christianity).

“For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do.

12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:11-15)

a reply to: YouSir

By the way, since the topic came up and was spoken about without understanding by those described by Jesus in the texts I quoted in my previous comment (Jn 8:42-47; Mt 13:13-15; 15:7-9)...

Jesus Christ (Insight on the Scriptures)

...

The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sousʹ) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” ...

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Loʹgos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.​—Joh 6:56, 57.

If the estimates of modern-day scientists as to the age of the physical universe are anywhere near correct, Jesus’ existence as a spirit creature began thousands of millions of years prior to the creation of the first human. (Compare Mic 5:2.) This firstborn spirit Son was used by his Father in the creation of all other things. (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17) This would include the millions of other spirit sons of Jehovah God’s heavenly family (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11), as well as the physical universe and the creatures originally produced within it. Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”​—Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.​—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION.

Wisdom personified. What is recorded concerning the Word in the Scriptures fits remarkably the description given at Proverbs 8:22-31. There wisdom is personified, represented as though able to speak and act. (Pr 8:1) Many professed Christian writers of the early centuries of the Common Era understood this section to refer symbolically to God’s Son in his prehuman state. In view of the texts already considered, there can be no denying that that Son was “produced” by Jehovah “as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago,” nor that the Son was “beside [Jehovah] as a master worker” during earth’s creation, as described in these verses of Proverbs. ...

...

Why called “the Word.” The name (or, perhaps, title) “the Word” (Joh 1:1) apparently identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were formed. A similar expression is found at Exodus 4:16, where Jehovah says to Moses concerning his brother Aaron: “And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.” As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as “a mouth” for Moses. Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. Jehovah evidently used his Son to convey information and instructions to others of his family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his message to humans on earth. Showing that he was God’s Word, or Spokesman, Jesus said to his Jewish listeners: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.”​—Joh 7:16, 17; compare Joh 12:50; 18:37. [whereislogic: he says something similar in John 8:25-38, the verses that precede my quotation of verses 42-47 in my previous comment.]

...

Why do some Bible translations refer to Jesus as “God,” while others say he was “a god”?

... [whereislogic: this section is 10 paragraphs long, so I'll spare you the details and refer you back to the video in my previous comment, which is a lot shorter and less detailed.]

Life is but a fleeting mist, here for a moment, then gone. What profit is there in gaining the whole world if it costs one's soul? What if this night your soul is required of you? What can you give in return for your soul? Our days are mere handbreadths, passing swiftly like shadows. The glory of flesh fades like withered grass, yet the word of the Lord endures eternally. The world and its desires are transient vanity, but those who do God's will abide forever. The ultimate duty of humanity is to fear God and keep His commandments, knowing that every deed will be brought into judgment. Blessed are those who fear the Lord, for their righteousness endures forever, and they find light even in darkness. Jesus Christ offers eternal life to those who believe in Him, transcending the fleeting nature of this world. Do you believe this?