Tax, Governemnt, NHS - Who Needs 'Em?

After arriving back from a nice holiday in Lanzarote, and indulging in many drunken debates over why living abroad is better than living in the UK, I thought I'd share my views with people on P@ATS.

The holiday was great, sunny weather all day, hot nights, cheap beer and cheap food, what more could you ask for! Surely good education and good living standards would pop into your head but I don't see anyone in Lanzarote worrying about their A Levels and Degrees, but they all seem to get on in life and have an enjoyable time. We pay so much tax here compared to certian places abroad, for example:

In England, West Midlands - 1 Pint of Stella Artois - £2.60 (I've heard a pint in London can cost upto £5 )

In Lanzarote - 1 Pint of Stella Artois (Equivilent) - One Euro, that is around 70p.

Another example is Cigarettes, here in the midlands it can cost you over £5 for a box of 20 cigarettes, whereas in Lanzarote you can pick up the equivilent pack for less than 2 euros, that's less than £1.40!

So even if you don't smoke or drink the standard of living is a lot cheaper. You don't have to pay car tax, food is cheap, houses are cheap and living is cheap.

We pay so much tax over here but what do we really get back from it? A few nice palaces? A nice Royal wedding? Billions of pound worth of EU handouts?

Another thing I noticed is that there were no speed cameras on the roads, but car crashes were at a very low rate. Speed cameras in Britain have never proven to be useful. In every case accidents have not dropped, I personally believe they are inclined to cause more trouble than solve.

If your sick of being skint, move abroad, but don't expect anything back from the government. Saying that, do we expect anything back over here?

[edit on 12-4-2005 by phixion]

Originally posted by phixion
I don't see anyone in Lanzarote worrying about their A Levels and Degrees, but they all seem to get on in life and have an enjoyable time.

- Hmmm, life dependant on the fickle tourist trade may seem comfortable but most of the indigenous people I've ever met abroad on holiday slog their guts out (for not a lot) doing at least 2 demanding jobs and basically trying to cram one years working for a living into 6 -8mths, if they can.

They have good years and bad, and a run of bad years can be terrible.

We pay so much tax here compared to certian places abroad, for example:

In England, West Midlands - 1 Pint of Stella Artois - £2.60 (I've heard a pint in London can cost upto £5

)

In Lanzarote - 1 Pint of Stella Artois (Equivilent) - One Euro, that is around 70p.

Another example is Cigarettes, here in the midlands it can cost you over £5 for a box of 20 cigarettes, whereas in Lanzarote you can pick up the equivilent pack for less than 2 euros, that's less than £1.40!

So even if you don't smoke or drink the standard of living is a lot cheaper. You don't have to pay car tax, food is cheap, houses are cheap and living is cheap.

- Yeah to a point that is true but wages are also lower and although the working day might seem shorter (with the EU limiting hours) that doesn't apply when you do 2 or 3 or 4 jobs, or work for yourself all hours.

But really mate if you really want to choose to live in a country because of how expensive or cheap the cigs, booze or petrol is feel free, I'll consider stuff IMO a little more significant if you don't mind.

We pay so much tax over here but what do we really get back from it? A few nice palaces? A nice Royal wedding? Billions of pound worth of EU handouts?

- Come on phixion, there's a lot more to it than that.

Another thing I noticed is that there were no speed cameras on the roads, but car crashes were at a very low rate.

- You have got to be kidding me. Accident rates in the holiday spots are amongst the worst in Europe (all those idiot tourists who think they can drink and drive and basically treat the foreigners traffic laws as if they didn't exist, right?)

Speed cameras in Britain have never proven to be useful. In every case accidents have not dropped, I personally believe they are inclined to cause more trouble than solve.

- Those camera that are visible and placed in towns do 'work'.
It is the revenue raising ones out on country roads or duel carriage ways or motorways that simply generate cash.......and the siting of these is down to local authorities and the Police, not the Gov.

If your sick of being skint, move abroad, but don't expect anything back from the government.

- Well bear in mind that if you do return after years away your missing years and non-contributing to your pension etc will cost you.
If you aren't here contributing why should anyone bail you out later?

I've known people go out abroad to live imagining it is an easy life and all but one came back in a couple of months talking about finding the 'easy only a few hours a day' job wasn't, it paid rubbish money they got stripped up and in short order reduced to subsisting before coming home regretting the experience.
I'm not saying that is either typical or common but I am definitely saying it happens and is nothing like the stroll some imagine.

Saying that, do we expect anything back over here?

- A little less than it all handed to us on a plate no matter what we do?

I know several people who have this in mind, my parents in particular plan to retire in another country due to the climate and generally being fed up of Britain.
I asked them whether they would stay if Britain was in their opinion 'fixed' but nope, its the weather they want

Can't blame them really

A relative of mine has worked and lived in Zante(Greece) for about 4 years now. Yes it is cheaper to live there, but the wages there are terrible.

Unless you have a trade or buy a hotel, to work over there you have to be either bar staff, a Dj or a PR for a club and like i said the wages are terrible, making most people take up 2 or more jobs just to be able to live.

And by the time youve finished all of your jobs, you dont have the time to go and buy cheap Stella...

I must admit if the housing price differential stays similar I might consider retiring to Spain or Greece myself.

It would be purely for the climate although their enthusiastic membership of the EU gives me confidence regarding living standards, liberties and rights.

I certainly couldn't (and don't) imagine living there in my middle age (and fortnightly visits were just the job in my youth!).

On first glance at the title of this thread, I thought this would be a discussion on Libertarianism or Anarchy, not moving to Spain!!

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I must admit if the housing price differential stays similar I might consider retiring to Spain or Greece myself.

This is one thing that has prompted me to consider emmigration too, and several decades before I retire at that. Do you envisage a correction at all in the house price differential?

My partner and I are planning to buy a house in the coming months, but if prices continue rise at the rate they have done over the last couple of years, then we may well see the bottom rung of the property ladder pulled up from our grasp. Without the prospect of owning our own home, there is one less thing binding us to living here. So we have been seriously considering a move abroad within the next 5 years or so, before we settle down to start a family.



My partner isnt from these parts anyway, she is from the Land Of Cheese, so moving to France is an option for us, and also beyond Europe, to Canada which holds great appeal for both of us.

As well as all the political and social issues that could be discussed until the cows come home, and as a few posters have already said: its really the warmer climate and more laid back lifestyle that influences the majority of decisions to emmigrate from Britain!


(edit typo)

[edit on 14-4-2005 by Paul]

I would advise that you held back for a few years. The housing market boom is over, prices are astronomical at the moment but guarenteed in a year or so you will see them falling.

This article from the bbc my explain more: news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by phixion
I would advise that you held back for a few years. The housing market boom is over, prices are astronomical at the moment but guarenteed in a year or so you will see them falling.

This article from the bbc my explain more: news.bbc.co.uk...

I hear you Phixion, but I've been reading the same stories of house price decline for nearly 3 years now, and still the rise in prices has been relentless.

You're right that the boom would appear to be over: here in my northerly corner of the West Midlands, prices have been more or less static for the past 6 months.

But prices are still vastly over-inflated. If you consider that the average household income is around £30000 per annum*, and that the average house price in the UK is currently £179,491 (source), thats 6 times the household income. Now if you consider that mortgage lenders will loan up to 3 times the household income, you can see that there will have to be one hell of a price crash before the average earner can afford the average house.

While I maintain hope that my partner and I will get on the ladder, there's still an almost depressing pessimism amongst prospective first-time buyers, myself included at times

That said, I find it difficult to believe that the current housing bubble is in any way sustainable, and hopefully we'll see at least some decline in the market.

*cant seem to find the relevant link now! will edit accordingly when I find it!

Indeed. New first time buyers will find it very hard to get on at the moment. I would say wait a year and see how the prices are looking then, pretty much certain that they will have dropped.

You don't want to get into the situation where you've bought a house for £180,000 and for it to drop to £150,000 within the first few months.

Well, the longer I wait, the bigger deposit I'll have. Hopefully that will also co-incide with falling prices.

You're right there - it would be a nightmare situation to be mortgaged up to the hilt, and facing negative equity on your property!