Tipping the scales of Duality

As this is my first attempt at a thread, I decided to try and spark some discussion on one of my favorite concept: Duality. I suppose we can agree that from a general perspective, our present world seem to be engaged in continuous conflict between two opposing extremes. Now of course, these are merely my views, shaped by my perspective and research, my relative degree of comprehension and are naturally skewed by my many personal bias. My hope is to spark interest for some conversation, reaching possibly further comprehension on the subject. I dont claim to have it all figured out, far from it and it is very possible that I will be rambling a lot. I think I heard somewhere that thread like this get moved to the skunk works forum, so maybe this is where you'll be reading this from, yet I feel like sharing this nonetheless.

I understand that some seekers have beliefs more in line with the concept of Unity and although I feel like there may be truth to it ultimately (a common Creator, essence, soul families, prime counsciousness, universal love), in our current realm it seems to be working somehow differently. I guess we may be inhabiting currently a lower, denser realm than the other truer, more spiritualy oriented ones, hence the constant conflict on display. It seem to me that forgetting about duality althogheter may be missing the potential opportunity of our being here at all, namely to make self-defining choices. Wether or not we believe this duality is a well elaborated illusion or the real deal, it remains that on some level, we bear many consequences from the choices we make, some pleasant, other less so. Apathy to the whole process would not be akin to transcendance for me, yet I realise once we actually do transcend this realm, our perspective may widen to horizons that could render earth choices trivial in comparison.

Now I may be slightly drifting here, but I personnaly tried apathy in the form of numbness myself (namely spiritual bypassing and emotional repression) as an escape because of intense psychological and spiritual suffering that seemed well beyond my immediate control, but it eventually made me allienated with my own self and feel very hollow, disconnected. I now strive to undo the damage and remember what being human is all about, although it can prove incredibly puzzling at times... So even though it sound nice in theory (and in Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon) being numb is nothing comfortable to me and more akin to a nightmare of sort.

So anyway, if we care about our current experience enough (I imagine we would not be on this site if we were not invested on some level) we can take solace in the knowledge that we have a certain (relative) degree of freedom regarding how we may use our human free will (do we have free will ? The debate rages on, but I presently believe we have on some level, otherwise everything would feels pointless to me and the concept of karma or divine retribution may quickly become oppressive and tragic, since we would essentially be mere cog in the grand wheel of the universe, doomed by fate).

So this is one possibility, as I see it. We are here to make choices as to where we stand in this grand conflict between light and dark, spiritual or materialistic, vengeful or forgiving, honest or miscevious, etc. This life may be a statement as to who we are. Or maybe our choices end up revealing to us who we were all along ? Some people would see it this way and attempt to live their truest, best life, taking their best shot at what they consider the ideal self projected by their 'super ego' and actualize it by way of the choices they make. Others would feel this process is unfair, considering their various wordly limitations, some quite serious and impeding on their free will, which bring me to my next point:

What if this world used to be a place of self discovery, like the pure ray of light dividing itself into various beautiful colors, but was deviously hijacked by some dark side actors who wished to have it become a gray world all subjected to themselves ? After all, many of our ancient religious texts seem to imply a similar premise. A fallen world, corrupted by the distorsion of evil. Maybe evil was never meant to be part of the choice at all and we were merely tricked into thinking it lead somewhere worthwile, bestowing some semblance of power and many ephemeral feats on the way, while in truth being effectively the very force of our own undoing, corrupting our bodies, obscuring our soul, blinding our spirit, enslaving our will.... an addiction to our very destruction; to be or not to be ?

Hollywood seem to be a good representation of this dichotomy, from where I am standing. You have these actors, these so called stars, playing their roles in many grandioses stories, being admired worldwile by masses that know only trivial details about their actual lives, amassing great material riches, being major players in worldy affair even by using their charisma and influence... yet time and time again we hear of their accute inner suffering and hopelessness and more recently about the many horrifying scandals apparently going on being the scenes. (While I am touching this subject, I just want to point your attention to how immensely symbolic Hollywood actually can be, seen with spiritual lenses. I think this might be one of the strongest asset of the dark side in this realm as well, this unholly wood (think magic wand) wielded by an ellusive hidden hand, casting its dark spells on us by injecting their dark visions in our very minds, corrupting our very imagination and perspective... all of this allowed somehow by our own free will.)

So all the while the stars appear to have it all, I am convinced that it is merely a facade and an act, the truth is a lot gloomier; Like literal stars, they are beaconing us with their distant light from the cold darkness of the void.

So to recap, we seem to live in a world in ongoing conflict toward the forces of good and evil, doing and undoing, life and death. What I think we ought to do in light of this is make every choice count, wether some bad actors are attempting to trick us in the process or not, to tip the scale toward life, love, truth, purity, beauty, hope... Since we are constantly tipping the scale in one way or another I believe, we might as well go about it consciously.

Every breath we take is a manifestation of our longing for life, with the confidence and trust that when we release it, breath will return soon to ensure our sustenance. Every beat of our heart, pumping the essence of life in our veins, is a statement of the very triumph of life. Every time we gaze at the sun rising amongst the morning clouds, we remember that a bright new day follow even the darkest of nights. Every time we embrace those we love, proclaiming wholearthedly ''I love you'', we are tipping the scale in the favor of the glorious triumph of the beauty of life.

Now I may sound overly optimistic in such a time and age, with all its wars, suffering, loneliness and division, but I believe that there is still hope for us all. If this thread may convey a single idea, but fail to spark conversation, let it be this: That I believe the beauty and love of life will have the last word over the gloom of death and despair and that there is still a chance for a bright new dawn.

a reply to: Seeker42

All anyone really needs to know about 'duality' is diagrammed here:

“The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we … kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. Just a simple choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.”
― Bill Hicks

a reply to: Astyanax

I suppose ''an image is worth a thousand words'' take a lot of meaning right now. So we need the dark to recognize the light. Maybe I simply misunderstand the concept of the Yin and Yang, do you think that we always need evil in order to have good ? Or that both are somehow illusory archetypes of underlying primordial forces necessary to have a coherent experience of life from 3d perspective ?

I imagined that the metaphorical scale I was alluding to was presently tipping somewhat in favor of evil in this world, but I can learn to see things from a different perspective if need be. Right now, with my own understanding of things and their working I believe we need more ''good'' to make this place worth living in.

Thanks for coming to my thread and sharing your insight !

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I agree that we could make this choice collectively, to cooperate on this principle of unity. I personally wish for this to happen. I think that while this may all be ''just a ride'' in the grand scheme of things, we are living it now and it can get suffocating at times.

Althogeter I find myself agreeing with your quote, it sounds true to me. ''Good guys'' wistleblowers also tend to be ignored it seems, too often anyway, while the ''bad guys'' seem to enjoy the ride more.Yet maybe in the end all will be well. Thank you for this.

a reply to: Seeker42

While duality exists on earth purely for the purpose of understanding the differences between good and evil so we can appreciate what's good, it won't and can't last forever.

That tumor called evil has developed into a stage 4 cancer that is metastasizing at an uncontrollable and untreatable stage that only our Creator can control now. Unfortunately, He already told us how that was going to turn out in the end. That's why we have religion and spirituality. Even though we can't seem to agree on those either, He's made it clear that only He can and will put an end to this duality before this evil cancer prevails.

a reply to: Deetermined

It seem to have worked for many people if the intended goal was to reveal to us how truly sick and insane evil really is. I just cant help but mourn for all the lost innocences and avoidable suffering on our way to this realization. If only God can do something about it, I imagine once we come to term with this reality we should try our best to prepare for His coming Victory, if only on a personal level.

Something is surely at stake here, I am thinking it is the fate of our souls. I hope with all my heart I will be ready when this day come, with as many others as can be.

Having read your opening introductory paragraph I was heartened to continue exploring your thoughts. I have now come to a point in reading that, without reading further, inspires me to hold up on that and comment on this.

once we actually do transcend this realm, our perspective may widen to horizons that could render earth choices trivial in comparison.

The key word for me here is ''may''. It may, but it may not, or more, it may depend upon our horizons within this realm and how we may or may not learn to broaden them. A coarse example would be music.

Earlier in my life I was a musician. I still am I guess, just not actively. Anyway, I noticed early on how, to a large degree, people tend to settle upon one genre or at best only a few in their appreciative capacity. Like my fathers generation that grew up listening to swing from the big band era. The push back that generation defended against rock and roll. Another would be people of my generation who became locked in rock and early rock and roll as my father had in swing. And on down the line. The guys I worked with who were tenish hears younger than myself who were locked into the rock of the 70s.

Me, I learned early on that music is sound, organized sound, and more than that can be disorganized yet conceptualized sound. That for me was an opening to a wider world of musical expression, of musical appreciation. Now, in my late70s my appreciative capacity is pretty encompassing though not I admit all-encompassing.

To bring that example back to your point above, what will music be like in another realm. Or, if , there will be music in another realm. Or more to the point, a, as you suggest a transcendent realm. What glorious sounds might be available. And would we or will we be open to them.

My guess is that we may not be open to them. However if we would have that capacity, would it not follow that one who learned to develop their appreciative capacity while in this realm have to some degree an expanded capacity for music appreciation in a transcendent realm? This singular example extends into any other field of development we might consider.

Because, to me, this is what transcendent means, development. How do we develop? Unconsciously, maybe. But consciously certainly that is if, we develop towards transcendence at all. I suspect we do.

a reply to: Seeker42

Sorry, before finishing reading I am compelled to interject once again, this time about your paragraph on free will. A topic that we might go on and on about. About, under, over and all around. You here have summed it up as nicely as can be with nice gift wrap and a pretty bow on top. So, let's carry on.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Thank you for sharing your rich perspective on music and transcendance ! I used to listened to rock and roll a lot in my early teenage years, then tried all kind of metal later on, but I came to feel like it weighed me down somehow. Was it the lyrics about doom, despair and moral degradation (depends on the band or song of course) or merely the very beat of the music that had this effect ? I heard it say some metal music tend to play on the lower vibrations cords intentionally to create the vibe they are going for.

Then I came to realize that we are affected by vibrations on some unseen level, which prompted me to explore different, more positive (to me) genres. I discovered a profond appreciation for classical music, especially the great work Bach and Handel. It seems to uplift my very soul listening to it. I think deep down, music is not only something we can physically dance to, I think our deeper self is dancing and vibing to it too somehow.

So for transcendance, to me, I think it comes from wisdom, which may come by way of Holy Spiritual Revelation and also from the understanding of our living experiences. I too look forward to higher realms, when and if my time come. I have a feeling this world may serve as the vestibule to a wider world, accessible by way of our spirit, contrary to the nature of this seemingly material realm. As you say, there is much to learn and we seem to be lacking time to grasp it all in a single life, maybe that's partly why there ought to be more later ?

a reply to: Seeker42

I agree with both of you regarding music. We are very much affected by vibrations and the sounds that come from them. While I don't believe there will be a communication barrier in the next realm, music is a form of language and it can spark an emotional response even without words.

a reply to: Deetermined

Music has to be some form of language as you say, since the idea I get of language is the use of an instrument to communicate through the associated medium, to shape bridges between various points of view. As for the effects of music, I very much agree that it has the ability to spark our emotions, I have yet to meet someone totally oblivious to its influence in fact.

a reply to: Seeker42

About this idea of a ''hidden hand'' or as some put it, a dark force that has infiltrated our current place of being and influences us towards it's own devious ends. You have lit upon my take on this when you say

wether some bad actors are attempting to trick us in the process or not, to tip the scale toward life, love, truth, purity, beauty, hope... Since we are constantly tipping the scale in one way or another I believe, we might as well go about it consciously.

For my perspective, or the current paradigm I am exploring, there is no hidden hand, no external negative force, rather, what human experiences we may attribute to this force are merely cases of NOT going about in conscious decision making. That is the unconscious aspect of our existence. If we would strive to be conscious decision makers it follows, to me at least, that a lack of decision making would be the product of unconscious behavior.

As I see it, unconsciousness would be like my earlier example. People find a musical genre and become one with it. This regularly falls into the range of ones coming of age period, those few years of physical maturation from puberty on into young adulthood. The pull of familiarity can be and as I see it, is, an example of unconscious behavior and a lack of decision making. Wait, change that. It may have been a conscious decision to listen to a certain genre of music but has sense become a state of de facto appreciation which hinders of not eliminates the potential for further musical decision making.

So, attempting to sum up that last example of gobbledygook, decisions along our path through our lives were formed by those places times and situations upon which the decisions were made. Skip a couple of years or decades, those times places and situation s change and to abide by decisions made earlier become hindrances to new decisions based upon current time, place nad situations. It's not evil influences, merely the pull of past decisions no longer relevant to our ongoing development. Meaning stalled development. And true evil is subconsciously abiding by decisions forced upon us by unconscious reaction to destructive material influences.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Interesting... So if I go by what you said, you are suggesting that we are essentially pulling our own strings, albeit uncounsciously ? It seems true, at least on some level. I can pretty much pinpoint how I made my own misery to some extent, by going in circles because of some of the bias of my psyche, which I believe suffered some hurt in early youth because of anxiety and fear. I certainly dont think this is irreversible though, I think we just need to start slowing the various destructive wheels until we can exit them, all the while going on about more productive endeavours than whatever contributed to our predicaments.

I think we are greatly adaptable in our current state. As for music, I admit being now biased toward favoring the classical genre. I would be interested to hear about your specific tastes in music, you seem pretty invested in this medium as you say you are a musician. Maybe you could pm me if you feel like it, or we can talk about it here ? (I am new, so what constitute a ''thread drift'' leading to deleted post is still somehow alien to me.)

a reply to: Seeker42
I had a hard time with heavy metal as well. I wanted to avoid the pitfall of not learning to appreciate a musical form that came at me once i had passed my young life as had my father in his dislike of rock and roll. Both of my sons were enmeshed in heavy metal. I just couldn't grasp it. So I went to a Metallica concert with them in a huge venue. Hours of young teenage men shaking their heads up and down as hard as they could for as long as they could inducing what kind of ''high'' I did not want to know.

You suggest lower vibration, I think maybe not lower, but coarser. Then one day I was walking down the street and I heard some music coming from a music store along my path. It was cello music and I was captivated. I went in asking who was that playing. The guy said it was four classical cellists playing ghe music of Metallica. I still have the CD.

One son managed to expand past, and mostly out of metal but my older son is still there, stuck in that field of music and life around it.

there is much to learn and we seem to be lacking time to grasp it all in a single life, maybe that's partly why there ought to be more later ?

I appreciate this realization, or, at least, consideration. It leads me to the obvious question of reincarnation. I spent maybe a decade in traditional reincarnation considerations but have move along having found traditional theories on reincarnation being to restrictive to arc of my development. I am beholding to those theories but merely as an elementary stage of my current thinking. And that is another conversation.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I have been to a heavy metal concert as well, ironically it was playing Metallica as well. I tried to play along as I came with a friend who enjoyed this music, but even though I appreciated at time the overall energy and general feeling of bonding (at the time I was more attuned to it), it felt somewhat ''forced'' to me. Like I was completely out of my element and merely pretenting. I think you may be right with saying this is ''coarser'' rather than lower. It does feel precisely this way on an energetic level to me, most of the time. Which would explain why many people still get energized by this music, even lifting their mood.

I love the sound of cello, so it would be difficult to miss the mark for me if it was played with heart and soul. Metallica on cello could perhaps sound just right, they tend to be less agressive than some in their rift I think, so I can imagine it fitting. Its funny how we can sometime think we are unmovable on a certain point, then a new perspective come by to revolutionize our view. I experience this phenomena time and time again, although it probably has its limit, lest we become akin to leaves in the wind (wether or not this is bad is probably subjective, maybe my image is a bit extreme).

For your view on reincarnation, I admit to being ambivalent as well, for similar reasons. I want to keep learning and growing, certainly not regress to a point of possibly no return (losing free will because of lower level counsciousness sound nightmarish). A life devoid of hope, beauty and love would seem pointless to me. This is partly why I dont put too much thoughts into this and prefer to rely on hope while focusing on this present life.

a reply to: Seeker42

If you want to know how much freedom you actually have, well... truth is subjective. Meaning, you don't have to cling to anyone else's philosophy or adopt someone else's views in order to find your way through this maze. You are the way. You are the maze. Build it to your liking then be the trailblazer that you are and forge your way through. Cut your own, clear path.

a reply to: Seeker42



I think I've got the CD somewhere. I don't know which drawer my CDs are in though.

Oh, and none of the gods have ever said anything to me about something beyond my life. I have no expectations of anything better.

a reply to: Seeker42

Yep, I think you understand what I was trying to get at

I think we just need to start slowing the various destructive wheels until we can exit them, all the while going on about more productive endeavours than whatever contributed to our predicaments.

Not easily done but I think you are right. LIke that old song out of the mid 1940s by Bing Crosby and the Andrew Sisters. One of my mothers favorites which she use often in raising us on how to handle decision making.



I think we needn't be concerned with thread drift as this is the philosophy forum and this is your thread and thus far our conversations have developed along those lines.

My musical development began with my folks having a considerable music collection of 78 RPM records, both single and album. My father preferred Glenn Miller while my mother preferred Benny Goodman. Among their stash were various classical albums which aided my early interests.

The public schools I went to focused mostly on classical music training. I played several instruments though my time in school which eventually expanded into jazz and folk music, along with the choir work we had available to us.
I was fortunate enough to have that wide base of appreciation from my parents record collection to build upon and then as I got older to juxtapose with the developing musical scene around me.

I lived in in the SF Bay Area and reached my young adulthood in the late 60s when the musical scene was quickly morphing out of the 1950s doo wop, with a burgeoning presentation of blues folk country and other international forms being brought together.

Handel and Bach are certainly the Godfathers of later classical composers. Handel basically developed the symphony style of composition being affectionately called Papa by later symphonic composers such as Beethoven and others.
My favorite Bach is his Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. I suggest the organ version, particularly a rendition by E Power Biggs.

This is deffinatly a time for headphones. Can you imagine three or four guys prancing around on a stage wearing bare chests and leathers playing guitar with faces pained up and tongues hanging out cranking out this piece? Sorry that may be too much of a stretch. But this however is a thread about stretching our current limits huh?

a reply to: Seeker42

Your post and subsequent posts with Terry McGuire were a nice read. Are you totally content with your idea of your purpose or is there still some restlessness in you?