Homunculus or emergence behind your person?

The age old question as to the idea of free choice. Let’s hear it. What’s your view on consciousness and why? Is your reasoning personally thought out or are you merely a Dennet fan?

a reply to: Consumer

Logic prevails: To be unconscious...one 1st has to BE conscious.

Both exist. Now. Before. And again.

Peace

a reply to: Consumer

Well, I think I could launch this thought into the thread



matter is energy, In the universe there are many energy fields that we cannot perceive.Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this soul does not exist ab initio, as orthodox Christianity teaches. It has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved, owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.”

Coupling this with the research findings of neurophycologists, we are mostly, like 98% rote functioning, that is non conscious behavior and thought thoughout our lives. This makes that 2% very precious indeed and what the Pythons describe as where that'' process of guided self-observation'' comes into play.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

The question wasn’t one of consciousness vs unconsciousness. Did you miss that, or were you merely looking to reply, just to reply?

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Ok, as it seems my original post might have been a bit too vague, I’ll rephrase and qualify it a bit. What is consciousness? Does it reside somewhere in your mind or somewhere else? Is it an entity, emergent or something else?

a reply to: Consumer

We seem to have no clue where/what/how/when consciousness really is and there are many different assumptions as to what the word even means...

That which is created as an experience in our brain seems to have an influence beyond our brain. I think this is a hurdle neurosciences need to tackle in order to find a satisfactory answer to that age old question.

Children are conscious but lost in the moment, dogs and cats are conscious but they're dogs and cats. A persons consciousness is measured by their open mindedness, to wholly believe that anything is possible whilst believing in nothing.

a reply to: Terpene

Absolutely. There’s no decisive definition of consciousness. There are however concepts and ideas of what it could be. So what do you think? Personally, I lean towards what on a surface level seems most likely; of consciousness being an emergent property. And if that’s the case it potentially opens other doors.

originally posted by: Cwantas
Children are conscious but lost in the moment, dogs and cats are conscious but they're dogs and cats. A persons consciousness is measured by their open mindedness, to wholly believe that anything is possible whilst believing in nothing.

I don’t believe I’ve heard that specific qualification of consciousness before. So if I’m not open minded, I’m not conscious?

originally posted by: Consumer

originally posted by: Cwantas
Children are conscious but lost in the moment, dogs and cats are conscious but they're dogs and cats. A persons consciousness is measured by their open mindedness, to wholly believe that anything is possible whilst believing in nothing.

I don’t believe I’ve heard that specific qualification of consciousness before. So if I’m not open minded, I’m not conscious?

Everything has consciousness within it's own boundaries whether it's intentional or unintentional. So measured meaning variable levels of consciousness.

a reply to: Consumer

You want an answer to an unanswerable question and you get upset when someone doesn’t answer it, hmm

Sincerely, I thought it was a good answer, “it’s the opposite to unconscious”, that’s hard and that’s clear and that establishes a concept of something
Just wasn’t the answer you wanted, was it?

a reply to: Cwantas

Everything has consciousness? Interesting, so define consciousness.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Consumer

You want an answer to an unanswerable question and you get upset when someone doesn’t answer it, hmm

Upset? Hardly, lol. A bit disappointed, perhaps. Simply pushing for deeper thinking,

Sincerely, I thought it was a good answer, “it’s the opposite to unconscious”, that’s hard and that’s clear and that establishes a concept of something

It merely suggests a binary position, nothing else. If you believe the opposite of unconscious is a good answer to what consciousness is, then good for you.

Just wasn’t the answer you wanted, was it?

I’m looking for thought out ideas. Feel free to share.

a reply to: Consumer

Well, I'm certainly not a small person, so I'm apparently unable to waltz the Esoteric with you.
Carry on. Good luck

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Consumer

Logic prevails: To be unconscious...one 1st has to BE conscious.

Both exist. Now. Before. And again.

Peace

Woooo, i flickered in and out of the matrix for a second then, Stop writing that stuff !


lol
All the best

Always remember, we may have freedom of choice, but beware, you can get sucked down the wrong path and it is difficult to get back to where you feel right if you stray off path too far. It is never to late to go back and evaluate where you are on the path you chose to be on. Don't be afraid to ask others for constructive criticism and evaluate that criticism to better yourself. People often suck at giving or receiving constructive criticism. Ask nicely and listen and evaluate what is being said. Others like criticizing others to make themselves look better, so evaluate if that is happening...usually those people talk behind your back to others.

Also learn to communicate or link with your subconscious...it is way smarter than our consciousness usually and most people ignore it.

originally posted by: Consumer
a reply to: Cwantas

Everything has consciousness? Interesting, so define consciousness.

The universal definition of consciousness is "state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings".

So it's levels of consciousness.

a reply to: Cwantas

Will you ever see what is seeing these words?

a reply to: Consumer

My type of question.

If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.

That's gotta work here.

I don't really believe in free will. "Almost free choice" is better. I think it's called Hard Indeterminism. That stuff loses me with its caveats sometimes.

I view the conscious mind like a computer. We have evolved inputs (senses) and a CPU to process a real time feed. And much like a computer I feel we defer our "totally free" decision making to a preprogrammed preference. Consciousness like the .exe on our program.

You encounter logic gates. Decisions seem to boil down to true/false. Even with an array of options presented by your situation, you still have to follow a logic sequence.

A) T/F
B) T/F
C) T/F.

If option B is True, A and C are false.

AI bots have crushed the Turing Test. Chat GPT most recently. We may need to rework the existential singularity. And honestly I don't see much separating their learning algorithm from ours. It builds over time just the same. It has certain functions which are invalid.

Example:

Person vs Bot

Person locks self out of apartment.

Person has limited options to get inside. Like Get spare key from friend, ask landlord, call locksmith, kick down door, break window.

Person establishes these options based on preexisting knowledge of similar situations.

Invalid options = walking through the door, teleportation, turn into an octopus and slide underneath the ½ inch opening.

A Bot asked to help would likely make the same suggestions based on its preexisting knowledge. Both streamline options based on the parameters of the situation and decide from a narrow range of applicable options.

And both may have not so free preference.

A person would be less likely to break down the door or smash a window, more likely choosing options that are less destructive. A Bot, taught to process like we teach our children, would likely also prefer a less destructive option..

So right there your own free will and the bot's applicable responses have been whittled down by available solutions and preference programming.

A) Get spare key from friend T/F = True
B) Ask landlord T/F = False
C) Call Locksmith T/F = False
D) All other T/F = False

Just try to make decisions which give you better options down the line. Wish I followed that advice. Because it builds on itself.

a reply to: Consumer

No one can be a Dennet fan, lol.

Neti neti.