american soldiers of the future

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I respect you a lot too devil. You're one of my favorites on ATS.

Yay **waves small flag***

Personally, I like it when people disagree with me or even when I'm wrong. There's always something new to learn.

That is very true something new to learn and something new to experience.

I say you don't really learn something unless you are wrong. LOL

Anyway, back on topic. Care to answer my question two of my posts back?

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I say you don't really learn something unless you are wrong. LOL

Anyway, back on topic. Care to answer my question two of my posts back?

You mean why I was sorry?
I already did answer it...

Originally posted by devilwasp
You mean why I was sorry?
I already did answer it...

I edited that post and added an on-topic question at the bottom.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Anyway, here's something else to chew on. Do you think all this stuff will be integrated with Force XXI or will Force XXI be expanded/revised or replaced with something else to integrate with this new soldier stuff?
[edit on 11-4-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]

I dont know this isnt my area of expertise and dont really have much knowledge of "Force XXI" what ever that is...
I'll leave discussing that to more in the know lads and lassies like yourselves.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


But as we know, that never works out.

But that has worked time and time again through out history. For example the Spartans warriors often the very sight of spartan soldiers dressed for war caused their enemies to surrender. Genghis Khan's troops took whole cities without even having to fight.

The fear and threat of what these soldiers could do often has enough to make people surrender without even trying to fight.


"Therefore one who is good at martial arts overcomes others' forces without battle, conquers others' cities without siege, destroys others' nations without taking a long time." -Sun Tzu

"-- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all."- Sun Tzu

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


But as we know, that never works out.

But that has worked time and time again through out history. For example the Spartans warriors often the very sight of spartan soldiers dressed for war caused their enemies to surrender. Genghis Khan's troops took whole cities without even having to fight.

The fear and threat of what these soldiers could do often has enough to make people surrender without even trying to fight.


"Therefore one who is good at martial arts overcomes others' forces without battle, conquers others' cities without siege, destroys others' nations without taking a long time." -Sun Tzu

"-- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all."- Sun Tzu

Not only that, but enimies your enemy's moral and concentration will be affected by the psychological impact of figthing a superior opponent. every second spend thinking about their doubts and fear ils a second less that they have to plan and prepare for combat and can lead to desertion and panic among the less organize and reginmented enemies.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Anyway, here's something else to chew on. Do you think all this stuff will be integrated with Force XXI or will Force XXI be expanded/revised or replaced with something else to integrate with this new soldier stuff?
[edit on 11-4-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]

I dont know this isnt my area of expertise and dont really have much knowledge of "Force XXI" what ever that is...
I'll leave discussing that to more in the know lads and lassies like yourselves.

I'm not a lassie.

I think Force XXI is far more vital at the moment than any soldier-strengthening program. In fact, Force XXI would expand the power of the entire military by a whole lot. It would make soldiers safe even if they don't have the gear being developed currently.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


But as we know, that never works out.

But that has worked time and time again through out history. For example the Spartans warriors often the very sight of spartan soldiers dressed for war caused their enemies to surrender. Genghis Khan's troops took whole cities without even having to fight.

The fear and threat of what these soldiers could do often has enough to make people surrender without even trying to fight.


"Therefore one who is good at martial arts overcomes others' forces without battle, conquers others' cities without siege, destroys others' nations without taking a long time." -Sun Tzu

"-- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all."- Sun Tzu

Sun Tzu was right.

But we're talking about the sight of soldiers. Sun Tzu was speaking just about forcing the enemy not to fight.

There are hostiles that would rather not fight soldiers that look superior, but what I'm saying is there will always be soldiers that do. Thus we can't expect them to just cower in fear and surrender.

Personally, the sight of masses of Soviet infantrymen in full NBC warfare gear marching in advance was the most fearsome thing I've ever seen. However, if I was a soldier in West Germany and they were invading the country, that fearsome sight would motivate me to fight and destroy them even more.

Fear is a time proven method of making people quit a fight before it even starts.

But your correct no matter how feared a soldier they will have to fight sooner or later. But even if a fear effect like this only works on people of lets say lesser conviction it will be well worth it.

Just as there is always people that will fight no matter the odds, there is always cowards. Theres also alot more of the second type in this world If you ask me.

I think if the fear just affects even a small percentage of an enemy's forces it will still bring some positives. Imagine soldiers flee the front lines and those that do manage to keep it together having to keep everyone else in line, It's a win-win situation. You can make some forces fear to even step into a battlefield with you and those that do would have to work awhole lot harder to keep their forces in line.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Just as there is always people that will fight no matter the odds, there is always cowards. Theres also alot more of the second type in this world If you ask me.

LOL Well, we haven't seen enough wars yet to know the answer to that.

I wouldn't necessarily call them cowards. Who knows, maybe it'll be myself or you who gives up in the sight of scary-looking soldiers?

This would relate alot to Cortez and is Invasion of Mexico. The Aztecs where the most effective force in the western hemisphere at the time then cortez came with his Mounted Calvary (natives thought they were gods/dragons) and cannons and Heavy Armor which was pretty impresive against their practicallly stone age weapons, they even thought their war dogs were demons.

Originally posted by Oblivions void
This would relate alot to Cortez and is Invasion of Mexico. The Aztecs where the most effective force in the western hemisphere at the time then cortez came with his Mounted Calvary (natives thought they were gods/dragons) and cannons and Heavy Armor which was pretty impresive against their practicallly stone age weapons, they even thought their war dogs were demons.

Not necessarily. There are very few countries in the world that are SO far behind that they would practically think they're majestic or something. Just doesn't happen these days. Even if you take the technology of 2020 and go invade India or something, nobody there's gonna go "Oh my... it's Shiva!!!"

Unless you're fighting some small tribe in Africa, and that's a whole different story altogether.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo


I wouldn't necessarily call them cowards. Who knows, maybe it'll be myself or you who gives up in the sight of scary-looking soldiers?

I dont think it has anything to do with looks as chances are they wont even see these soldiers. It would be more a fear of what they could do.

I mean you dont fear a sniper because they look scary you fear what they can do and perhaps maybe even more so because you cant see them.

Perhaps cowards wasnt the best word but fear its just human nature. Perhaps it just self preservation hard wired into us I mean we have fear for a reason.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by ShadowXIX]

I was going to mention that in my post, It wont be as impresive as in cortez' day but you never know. with our current doctrines of war we will most likely be fight ing less advance (culturally, educationally and mililtary) and who tend to be more religious/supersticious people. We have people in Guantanamo bay who wanted to kill themselves because they were exposed to our female soldiers during their day of the month (was in the news not too long ago). Now imagine having a team of delta forces or seals with adaptive camaflauge(I know I killed the word) just pop out right under your nose you and riping doors or knocking down walls with their enhance strengh (part of what darpa is going for) and being able to jump twice as high as the highest olympian can. The viet-cong would refer to seals as ghost for their use of stealth and calmaflauge.

We have seen U.S. military strength overwhelm the adversary therefore causing them to surrender. Remember 91, all those Iraqi soldiers surrendering in the thousands.

I guess once they saw the Abrams and Apaches they changed their mind real quick.
I remember a show where an Abrams commander said one of the Iraqi soldiers told him that the Iraqi army had been told the Abrams were made out of plywood And I'm not making that one up.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
We have seen U.S. military strength overwhelm the adversary therefore causing them to surrender. Remember 91, all those Iraqi soldiers surrendering in the thousands.

I guess once they saw the Abrams and Apaches they changed their mind real quick.
I remember a show where an Abrams commander said one of the Iraqi soldiers told him that the Iraqi army had been told the Abrams were made out of plywood

And I'm not making that one up.

Just like the 40% casualty rate, we shouldn't expect it to happen again.

Iraq was one example and they had various reasons for giving up so easily. In fact, anybody, including the best-trained and best-equipped soldiers can easily surrender like the Iraqis.

Well the 91 situation in Iraq had a lot of factors behind it which would make it hard to happend again. These soldiers where forced into fighting some for years(ever since the war with Iran). They didn't werent behind the war and werent even behind their leaders. THey had the Republican Guard with guns behind them (the Idea been either fight the americans or die at their hands) Not to mention we had a lot better public image back then. But military history shows us that an enemy with questionable dedication to the war effort will most likely flee or surender when encounter with superior force.

PS
As far as the Urban warfare casualty rates, we've been lucky to not have a majority opposing us in Iraq. while they are significant number is opposition (at least there was) these groups where of opposing views, they were either foreigh extremist, Former Ba'th Party Loyalist or other smaller Nationalist and criminal element and these group did not make up the majority of the population. And the US has been training for urban walfare for quite some time now and keeping a close eye on the Isreali Tactic which At least in my opinion are the most effective and sucessfull urban warfare. Even somalia which was a political disaster but when it came to the military aspect of it, a few dozen soldiers die battling an ENTIRE CITY. I'm not sure of the exact us casualties at the moment but about 120 or so Poorly equipped and supported soldiers held off the entire popultion (even children were going after them) and kill some 1000-1500+ according to most figures. They didn't even go in there expect this fight and look at the results and this was before most of the current Urban warfare tactics even emplemented or taught for that matter. If it wasn't for the weak political leadership in the situation it could have been a whole different story.

[edit on 4/12/2005 by Oblivions void]

Alex Proyas is smiling and Will Smith is Arnold and meh