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Oh? it is 1260 years? Gosh from everything I have read from those in the know, I thought it was 7 years. I can breathe easy.
Originally posted by defcon5Which both refer to the same 1260 years referred to here:
Originally posted by Lord Altmis
I think the climate is ripe for a potential world world war 3. Which country do you think is most likely to pursue another Hitler/Napolean style move across the world.
Perhaps Bush is the last U.S. president, he did say he needs 8 years to complete his purpose.
Verse 11:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
“He is not yet come, though he cannot be far off for he is to appear at the end of the forty-two months of the first beast.”
Date of publication: 1755
1Jo 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
originally by Jamuhn from this thread Why don't politians do their job and represent us.
The only LAW that we have in the US is our Constitution and British common law. British common law is a very old tradition of laws that was passed down to us while we were still a colony and after we gained our independence. Though, there are a lot of people out there who still think we are a British Colony and have written books about it. I'm not very knowledgable about this part of the, dare we call it "conspiracy," but British common law contains the law necessary to create this corporation.
USC = United States Code
"United States" means - (A) a federal corporation...28 USC 3002(15), Ch. 176. It is clear that the United States...is a corporation... 534 FEDERAL SUPPLEMENT 724. The United States of America is a corporation endowed with the capacity to sure and be sued, to convey and receive property. 1 Marsh Dec. 177, 181. Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 5th Ed.
The United States Government is a Foreign Corporation with respect to a State. Black's 6th.
The "United States" is a corporation created on February 21, 1871 under the name "District of Columbia," 16 Stat. 419 Chap. 62 (reorganized June 11, 1878) The "United States" is a bankrupt organization and a de facto government (not just and lawful).
From 1786 to 1789 the United States were a confederation; after 1789 it was a federal nation.
Notice that between 1786 and 1789 the United States was plural, United -- States. After that it became singular "United States" as a name.
British common law established the practices of the state, and is derived from past cases in Britain (some even before America was discovered) that describe what system of law we will have. The only thing that can supercede common law is what is defined in our constitution. But there are two distinct constitutions, the one that the US Corp. uses is missing the 13th amendment prescribed in the original constitution. The 13th amendment states that no person of this country can bear a foreign title of nobility. This would ultimately bar lawyers who are agents of the British crown.
The US no longer institutes law but instead the corporate policy in the USC and UCC.
On a side note, British common law ultimately derives from Roman Civil Law.
Well pastors too and also the experts on ATS, I guess you are calling ATSers cons. But I wasn't rude to you, so why are you being rude to me?
Originally posted by defcon5
Who Hal Lindsey, the two idiots that wrote left behind, your local pastor that needs to go back to study Eschatology, or a bunch or cons trying to sell stuff on the internet?
That's an impressive group but the last one lived 214 years ago, Pope John Paul II who died yesterday didn't believe as your list of people did, and they never made it to pope.
Just some of the guys/groups that believed the same thing I do:
And I don't know why you're challenging me here, I am pretty sure I accepted your correction and stood corrected.
You beat my people in the know, it's called Historicism, it's what these folks believed, a seven year tribulation comes from Futurism, and was made up by the Jesuit Order to throw people off the track of looking to Rome.
Well I didn't know this, so now I learned something new again. What you're saying is that the prophecies all happened 207 years ago, well all of it anyway except for the end. So were there more than 1260 days somewhere that explains that there is an end that happens after 1798?
Oh and as far as breathing easy goes, the 1260 days ended in 1798, the end could come at any time now, there is no 7 year time table to look at and have it all figured out. Like a thief in the night; remember?
Originally posted by dgtempe
The Antichrist will be charismatic (not Bush) extremely intelligent and supposedly will have everyone at his feet. (not Bush)
That leaves Bush out of the running on this one.
Yes, there will be other presidents after Bush, and if we're lucky with different ideologies.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
I wasn't rude to you, so why are you being rude to me?
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Well pastors too and also the experts on ATS, I guess you are calling ATSers cons.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
That's an impressive group but the last one lived 214 years ago, Pope John Paul II who died yesterday didn't believe as your list of people did, and they never made it to pope.
The vision of the statue:
Dan 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
The interpretation of the vision:
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Vision of the 4 Beasts
Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
The interpretation of the vision:
Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Vision of the Little Horn, What most consider the Anti-Christ
Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
The interpretation of the vision:
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
What you're saying is that the prophecies all happened 207 years ago, well all of it anyway except for the end. So were there more than 1260 days somewhere that explains that there is an end that happens after 1798?
Originally posted by Zabilgy
Isn't the current president the Anti-Christ?? Maybe the Anti-Christ is like one of those creatures that requires a host body and it moves from president to president??.....now there's a good topic for a new thread!!
Accepted.
Originally posted by defcon5No maybe not overtly rude, but saying that you know from those, "in the know”, implies that I do not know what I am talking about. Perhaps I misread what it is you were saying, and if so I then apologize.
So what you are saying is that you know but those who speak of the 7 years, clergy and ATS posters in agreement with them are not in the know. Do I understand correctly? Are these ATSers and all pastors selling books etc.? If not, please specify. Also, what is it about your Daniel belief that makes it so? please expound on the 3 you gave, specifically how long each was and when they each started.
I do not believe that any guy off the street that has been weaned on Futurism is a con, most are retelling what it is that they have been taught, but this does not make it right. The ones that are cons are those that should know better, “the ones in the know”, as you stated. They are the ones that are out there selling the books, movies, and videos that push Futurism. They are making money at the expense of peoples souls. The reason that Futurism is so popular is that it pushes the following things:
What is this rapture and where does it come from if you are saying there is one? I read just today on another thread there is no such thing. Two opposing views only one can be correct.
C) It allows for a rapture to rescue anyone professing to be a Christian from persecution and torment.
I believe in God yes, and if I am to believe in those NT books from which you quote, why am I not to believe in revelation and its 7 years?
Now if you believe in God and his word, you should believe the following:...
Look around, people everywhere like conspiracies, deciphering the past, present and future and many have a morbid fascination with grotesque and Godly ways the world will end. You have done the same.
So follow my logic here, if the plan is so well known that there are tons of books, movies, and video’s about it, then how is it so deceptive as to deceive even the very elect?
This does not mean that it is Daniel's prophecy either, or the event you relate same to.
It cannot be Futurism,...
RCC's believe theirs is the only truth, as do you believe yours to be. Are you of any faith now, or a theist without an accepted religion?
Before I say anything On the next comment, I would like to say that I went to Catholic school when I was young, and I don’t have any kind of axe to grind with anyone I know that is catholic, so this is not about bashing Catholic Christians, this is simply about telling the truth and denying ignorance. Sorry but telling the truth is not always politically correct, and sometimes good people can get caught up in things that are not so good and not even realize it.
For brevity, it was about your list. Yes, I understood you, and read them well, but you have not provided anything to prove Daniel’s prophecy save to tell me when you think it all occurred. By your inference you are also saying that JPII was wrong but you are correct, 1.2 billion people believe he is correct. You need more than just telling me I did not understand or to choose certain eras to make your case.
This statement tells me one of two things, either you do not understand what I am talking about, or you did not read my posts well. Those men lived during the persecution by the Fourth beast of Daniel, which was Rome, lead by the Pope who is the Little Horn of Daniel and therefore what most today would call an Anti-Christ. Don’t believe me lets look a bit at Daniel:
These are fine assumptions, let us see how they correspond: Gold- in use from as early as 4,000BCE, Egypt, India also; Bronze- found to have been in use in Thailand more than 6k years ago; in ME by 4000BCE-16th C; Iron age-13-6th century BCE development; Iron and clay- from 6th century BCE where concrete was heavily used by the Romans in 1st century ACE. Including Nero.
The vision of the statue:…The interpretation of the vision:…
. Thou art this head of gold. (Babylon)….kingdom. of brass, (Medio-Petrsia)…Bronze…(Greece) strong as iron…(Rome)part of potters' clay, and part of iron,…(today)
Vision of the 4 Beasts… are four kings…The interpretation of the vision: Babylon; Medo-Persian; Greece; Rome
This mark is also mentioned by Daniel, so it is either you go by him; by Revelation, or by the book linked to both.
There are still a few things to happen, like the Mark, the second coming, the judgment, increased world disasters such as the tsunami, things like that.
Why not? Is it because that the prophecy is interpreted to one’s satisfaction, to suit the times no matter the pauses in between? This leaves it open-ended and subject to revision on a daily basis, where when we wait long enough we can attach some historic moment to past prophecy.
There is NO set time line for these things to occur.
Is he? Does it not also claim that after the stars fall, and that is a big event, he will appear? Is it then your contention that it will all happen so quickly that we won’t have time to say; oh! Look skyward!?
This is why God said it would be like a thief in the night,
That is your country, not mine, and it does not address the world.
Some prophecies, such as the mark, I see in the loss of freedom occurring in this country. To be honest HR418 fits almost every criteria to be the Mark if it passes the senate.
I also see any apocalyptic prophecy to be a big seller, keep the masses scared. And I will be pleased to answer after you answer my questions.
Just out of curiosity, look at what it is your asking me here, then look up above at the reasons I say that Futurism is a big seller, and answer me this:
If the end came 3 minutes from now or 30 years down the road, if your ready for it what difference should it make?
Originally posted by djpaec
... Whatever schmuck bangs his head so hard we all think he will die, then he lives through it, that's who.
So what you are saying is that you know but those who speak of the 7 years, clergy and ATS posters in agreement with them are not in the know. Do I understand correctly? Are these ATSers and all pastors selling books etc.? If not, please specify. Also, what is it about your Daniel belief that makes it so? please expound on the 3 you gave, specifically how long each was and when they each started.
originally from The Times of London, Monday, March 12, 1798, pg. 3
"The Roman people are now again entered into the rights of sovereignty, declaring their independence, possessing the government of ancient Rome, constituting a Roman Republic.
"The General-in-chief of the French army in Italy declares, in the name of the French Republic, that he acknowledges the Roman Republic independent, and that the same is under the special protection of the French army.
"The General-in-chief of the army acknowledges, in the name of the French Republic, the provisional government which has been proposed by the sovereign people.
"In consequence, every other temporal authority emanating from the old government of the Pope, is suppressed, and it shall no more exercise any function....
"The Roman Republic, acknowledged by the French Republic, comprehends all the country that remained under the temporal authority of the Pope, after the treaty of Campo-Formio.
"ALEXANDRE BERTHIER."
What is this rapture and where does it come from if you are saying there is one? I read just today on another thread there is no such thing. Two opposing views only one can be correct.
I believe in God yes, and if I am to believe in those NT books from which you quote, why am I not to believe in revelation and its 7 years?
Look around, people everywhere like conspiracies, deciphering the past, present and future and many have a morbid fascination with grotesque and Godly ways the world will end. You have done the same.
This does not mean that it is Daniel's prophecy either, or the event you relate same to.
RCC's believe theirs is the only truth, as do you believe yours to be. Are you of any faith now, or a theist without an accepted religion?
By your inference you are also saying that JPII was wrong but you are correct, 1.2 billion people believe he is correct
These are fine assumptions, let us see how they correspond: Gold- in use from as early as 4,000BCE, Egypt, India also; Bronze- found to have been in use in Thailand more than 6k years ago; in ME by 4000BCE-16th C; Iron age-13-6th century BCE development; Iron and clay- from 6th century BCE where concrete was heavily used by the Romans in 1st century ACE. Including Nero.
Now Daniel lived during the time of Nebuchadnezzar, 7th century BCE. he would have known about all of those materials from the OT itself relative to the weapons of war, and from history known to him about buildings and materials. This then is no evidence of a future unknown, but in fact there is for a past known. Your dating is very liberal.
Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
We have the Jews downtrodden by: Egyptian Babylonia to 13th century BCE ; Assyrian 12th C BCE; Assyrian & Babylonian 13-12th C BCE; Assyrian 10th C BCE- Babylonian 7th C BCE Plus they had encounters with Hittites 16th c -12th C BCE, Philistines13th to 12th C BCE, Phoenician 1Mill-7th C BCE. He can therefore be referring to any number of those, since, Egyptian was Gold; Bronze- Hittites; iron- Philistines & Phoenicians . Daniel also saw the 4th beast usurp the other 3. So again, this does not necessarily reflect the future but the past. The only reason the prophecy is left open is because the “for ever and ever:” has not come true, is that not so? Yet, that 4th power can be any number of powers from the 7th century onward, where there have been many powers. Now I would really like to see your timeline according to Daniel as to how the last part of the prophecy is still to be fulfilled because;
This mark is also mentioned by Daniel, so it is either you go by him; by Revelation, or by the book linked to both.
Why not? Is it because that the prophecy is interpreted to one’s satisfaction, to suit the times no matter the pauses in between? This leaves it open-ended and subject to revision on a daily basis, where when we wait long enough we can attach some historic moment to past prophecy.
Is he? Does it not also claim that after the stars fall, and that is a big event, he will appear? Is it then your contention that it will all happen so quickly that we won’t have time to say; oh! Look skyward!?
That is your country, not mine, and it does not address the world.
I also see any apocalyptic prophecy to be a big seller, keep the masses scared. And I will be pleased to answer after you answer my questions.