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god dosnt exsit

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posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555

Did the scientists give you life? And any life the Scientists create will be a result of God creating it, as that scientist would never have been able to create whatever they create without God first creating them. So, no, they shouldn't worship the scientist, as God gave the power to the scientist to create them, and they should worship God because of this.


I attribute my life to my parents. My parents life to my grand parents and so on till apes. I attributes the apes life to older primates and so on till single cell organisms. Now Scientists are trying to create single cell organisms from SCRATCH (meaning non-living matter). That is what my point is. Now where did non-living matter come from? I can answer this as good as you can answer where GOD came from...





The atrocities of man prove nothing about God. We have the ability to choose to be good or bad, and some choose to be good and then place the label of "In God's name" on it. They don't have an inside track to what God wants in reality, and we both know this


My point exactly...By same logic nothing good on earth should be attributed to GOD...Or if we have to attribute good on earth to god we also have to attribute the evil on earth to him...Not all misery is caused by humans..Remember the Tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes.........
Now if GOD has as much evil as he has good..Why should I WORSHIP him?



I am not attributing all the Good to God, I am saying God is pure Good. That doesn't mean we aren't capable of being good ourselves, it just means that all his actions are good.


Again the question: Why do natural disasters occur?


The misery comes from the idea of freewill. If there is freewill, is there not the ability to choose to do the right thing or wrong thing? If there is freewill, and God wants it this way, why would he interfere? That would be controlling, and not so free.


If GOD gives the will or lets a powerful person decide (freewill) to prey upon the weak, to subdue them or to kill them then he is not worth worshipping.
Many people see GOD as a leader...If he cant prevent them form being opressed does anyone owe him worship?

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]




posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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God gave us life, is it not his to take away? You are giving God human characteristics, he is not human. It is not wrong for him to take away life, as Good is defined by how God acts, and what God sees as good. Perhaps it is true; Natural disasters occur because of sinning. Was it a coincidence that the earthquakes happened the day after christmas and easter?

God wasn't created, his origins are infinite. You are assuming that God was created, but in order to be created you must be bounded by time, like the Universe. If God created everything, did he not create time? You can trace your ancestory as far back as you'd like, but you will soon find that you have no other answer that can complete this puzzle.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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lol PC ALERT PC ALERT


i stand by everything I said.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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In reguards to the natural disasters thing, just so you know in one of the books of the NT it clearly states that not all natural disasters are the work of God and well # happens, and sometimes bad things do happen to good ppl. I wish I could remember which book.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Well have you thought of this.....that perhaps there is a God, he just doesn't interact or have anything to do with us? That is called Deism. Believing in a God that is detached from his creation.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
God gave us life, is it not his to take away? You are giving God human characteristics, he is not human. It is not wrong for him to take away life, as Good is defined by how God acts, and what God sees as good.


Your mother gave you this "earthly" life. I suppose she has the right to kill you? But then lets suppose god gave you this life.
Now, lets consider a women impregnated by artificial insemintaion. Since, GOD obviously did not want her to be a mother (else she would not require artificial insemination) she would be regarded as a life giver . Would she have the right to kill her baby.....NO


Perhaps it is true; Natural disasters occur because of sinning. Was it a coincidence that the earthquakes happened the day after christmas and easter?


And your point is?......Please....... I bet with a bit of research you can come up with disasters occuring 365 days a year...So much for the Christmas and Easter theory....


God wasn't created, his origins are infinite. You are assuming that God was created, but in order to be created you must be bounded by time, like the Universe. If God created everything, did he not create time? You can trace your ancestory as far back as you'd like, but you will soon find that you have no other answer that can complete this puzzle.


Actually, I am as far back in the puzzle as you are but with a lot more proof..The evolution theory..
And, I can give a statement same as yours:
Non-living matter wasn't created, its origins are infinite....Go figure...



[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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I would disagree with you on the proof of God's existence. I was once an Athiest as well. There was no point to the earthquake statement, just a statement. And your mother is a human, she is not God. You are giving God human characteristics which is completely WRONG. We can not begin to debate God until you get the fact that God is NOT human.

Artificial insemanation means God doesn't want you to have kids? Says who? Maybe God wanted to teach you a lesson about something else in life, perhaps what is important. To show you money isn't worth the joy of a kid, who knows. But think outside the box here. If you have a kid, no matter how, than God wants you to have it. God gave you permission to bring life into the world, you didn't just do it. Every life form is CREATED by God first.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
In reguards to the natural disasters thing, just so you know in one of the books of the NT it clearly states that not all natural disasters are the work of God and well s**t happens, and sometimes bad things do happen to good ppl. I wish I could remember which book.


I will ask you the same question, if s**t is going to happen, whats the use of worshipping? Does it reduce the the chances of s**t happening. I havent seen earthquakes ask people " Hey do you believe in GOD, If yes I will spare your house and your life"

EDIT: I did not know ATS censors the word s**t.....Croat56 it disappeared from your post too.... Or is it just the godly thread




[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Quake

Originally posted by Croat56
In reguards to the natural disasters thing, just so you know in one of the books of the NT it clearly states that not all natural disasters are the work of God and well # happens, and sometimes bad things do happen to good ppl. I wish I could remember which book.


I will ask you the same question, if # is going to happen, whats the use of worshipping? Does it reduce the the chances of # happening. I havent seen earthquakes ask people " Hey do you believe in GOD, If yes I will spare your house and your life"



Simple. Although # happens to good people, you can secure your fate by believing, trusting in, and worshiping God. He will grant you life eternally in heaven. Is eternal happiness and life not worth worshiping?



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Faeryland
Well have you thought of this.....that perhaps there is a God, he just doesn't interact or have anything to do with us? That is called Deism. Believing in a God that is detached from his creation.

Believing in a God that is detached from his creation:
Then again...What would be GOD....if he does not interact with us how do you know he exists..are there some signs proving his existence?



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Quake

Originally posted by Faeryland
Well have you thought of this.....that perhaps there is a God, he just doesn't interact or have anything to do with us? That is called Deism. Believing in a God that is detached from his creation.

Believing in a God that is detached from his creation:
Then again...What would be GOD....if he does not interact with us how do you know he exists..are there some signs proving his existence?


For me there have been thousands. I am sure you have had thousands too, you just need to pay attention. Somethings aren't just coincidence.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
I would disagree with you on the proof of God's existence..... And your mother is a human, she is not God.You are giving God human characteristics which is completely WRONG. We can not begin to debate God until you get the fact that God is NOT human


I never said mothers/fathers are god. I just used the word life giver...

I began my debate by asking Explain/define GOD....Since nobody did I assumed it/him/her to have the characterstics I am familiar with Humans...BTW wasn't Jesus Human and wasn't he the Son of GOD



But think outside the box here. If you have a kid, no matter how, than God wants you to have it. God gave you permission to bring life into the world, you didn't just do it. Every life form is CREATED by God first.


Every life form is CREATED by God first.....and the proof is?
I think I already answered this by my beliefs in creation of life and my views on worshipping..


*deleted a paragraph...thought I answered in the wrong context


[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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I believe i already addressed all of your questions. The life which women who get artificial insemmenation was created and designed by God. There is no reason to worship God except to recieve eternal life. Jesus is the Son of God, and we can call him part of the trinity. However, that is God placing himself in a humans body, and did he sin at all? The answer is no. So, according to his own standards he didn't sin once. What I mean by that is he gave himself human characteristics and was perfect with them. He didn't sin. So, Jesus is irrelevant. Your idea of evolution still holds no baring on your existence today. Don't you understand that it starts off with the big bang, which had matter being created from nothing, or God. And when a big bang happens the chances of it actually creating a life bearing universe so that even one bacteria may live, are approximately the same chances as a tornado going through a junkyard and creating a battleship, as i said previously. Not to mention the proof for evolution is lacking at best. I am not saying that some sort of evolution didn't occur, but not to the extremist views that some people take. Tell me, if evolution, as you say is so perfect, explain DNA.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
There is no reason to worship God except to recieve eternal life.
Jesus is the Son of God, and we can call him part of the trinity. However, that is God placing himself in a humans body, and did he sin at all? The answer is no. So, according to his own standards he didn't sin once. What I mean by that is he gave himself human characteristics and was perfect with them. He didn't sin. So, Jesus is irrelevant.


Eternal life...Meaning Heaven and Hell?

Consider this: If I commit no sin, I am god or at least a part of trinity (would become Quatra then
)
If I commit 1 sin, I go to heaven
If I commit 2 sins, I go to heaven
If I commit 3 sins, I go to heaven
....
....
If I commit n sins, I still go to heaven
If I commit (n+1) sins, I go to HELL

What is the value of "n". Or is it a qualitative aspect?

Now is there class system in Heaven?
How do you differentiate between a sinner who has commited 1,2 ...n sins.
If there is no differentiaton THEN I would love to know the n value

If people you already commited n+1 sins...dont bother...enjoy hell




Seriously, If god cannot help us here on earth how do I expect him to help us in heaven?



Your idea of evolution still holds no baring on your existence today. Don't you understand that it starts off with the big bang, which had matter being created from nothing, or God. And when a big bang happens the chances of it actually creating a life bearing universe so that even one bacteria may live, are approximately the same chances as a tornado going through a junkyard and creating a battleship, as i said previously. Not to mention the proof for evolution is lacking at best. I am not saying that some sort of evolution didn't occur, but not to the extremist views that some people take. Tell me, if evolution, as you say is so perfect, explain DNA.


If you remember I said " I can explain creation of non-living matter as well as you can explain creation of god" And I gave you the same quote as you did ..Non-living matter wasn't created, its origins are infinite...An eye for an eye
Exodus 21:24

Big Bang was never meant to explain the creation of life, alebit the creation of universe. Life began millions of years afterwards by reactions between nitrates, carbon etc. There wasn't any bacteria when Big Bang occured..At least thats what I was taught in school...

I never said evolution was perfect....It still has its shortcomings...But it explains origins of life better that any theory especially creationism

What anamolies in DNA theory would you like me to explain?





[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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I would like you to explain how non-living matter doesn't evolve, but yet humans did. Protein is non-living, protein makes up DNA along with enzymes. Thus it makes no sense under the current evolution "umbrella."

No, if you commit no sins you are not a God. You are born into sin because of man's original sin from the garden, whether metaphorical or literal. The whole point of Jesus is that you can comit sins and still be brought into heaven. Otherwise we would all be doomed.

Now, you are going to say, if we are born into original sin, what about Jesus. This means he sinned. I am going to answer that now! Jesus was born of divinity, of God. He was not born like a normal human, as you know. And since God didn't choose something aside from his own rules, Jesus wasn't born into sin, rather he was born without sin. He then remained in such a state his whole life.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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I never said evolution was perfect....It still has its shortcomings...But it explains origins of life better than any other theory especially Creationism- Quake

Check out my new header . I stole it fom my earlier post.



Originally posted by Ryanp5555
I would like you to explain how non-living matter doesn't evolve, but yet humans did. Protein is non-living, protein makes up DNA along with enzymes. Thus it makes no sense under the current evolution "umbrella."


Non-living matter does change. I do not think the evolution theory denies that (or do I need to go back to school?)

The composition of earth has changed over millions of years. See the difference in compostion of the inner and outer planets of the solar system and they are from the same common ancestor.

Even on earth, Leave a polished aluminum pot in air and see the difference. Multiply the effect by millions of years and you get a new material.


No, if you commit no sins you are not a God. You are born into sin because of man's original sin from the garden, whether metaphorical or literal. The whole point of Jesus is that you can comit sins and still be brought into heaven. Otherwise we would all be doomed
.

Suppose, I am on death bed. I accept Christ as my savior. Does that wash away all my past sins.... If yes then GOD save us all (pun intended)



Now, you are going to say, if we are born into original sin, what about Jesus. This means he sinned. I am going to answer that now! Jesus was born of divinity, of God. He was not born like a normal human, as you know. And since God didn't choose something aside from his own rules, Jesus wasn't born into sin, rather he was born without sin. He then remained in such a state his whole life.


Again, I have never EVER seen proof of that.....Why do different set of rules apply to different individuals (meaning GOD and man)

[edit on 28-4-2005 by Quake]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by specialasianX

Originally posted by Killak420
So I guess since you dont beleive in GOD I can call you a monkey

If there is no GOD then how come you exist?


Its called evolution... look into it, coz it makes more sense than creationism...

But xpert... let people believe if they want... i dont, but as long as bible bashers bash their bibles away from me i'm not fussed.


And specialasianx, you are content to defend the primary school rational that 'well, they did it to me, so i did it back.'
I was taught that two wrongs don't make a right... three lefts do though.
I would love to be an atheist, you can 'let' me all you want, lol, but I just can't, m'kay.
I guess I'll 'let' you two believe you're both right.


What do you mean they do it to me so i do it back??? All i said there was let people believe what they want so long as they dont try and push their beliefs on me... Or are you implying that your not allowed to believe what you want? and everyone should be pushed into believing in god?

Sure maybe the term 'bible basher' was a bit harsh, but that only refers to those who push their faith but wont listen to a word of anyone elses beliefs... I'm always up for theological and spiritual debate and discussion, but i wont put up with someone pushing their beliefs on me... the same way religious folk shouldnt put up with atheists forcing their beliefs on them



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Quake




Non-living matter does change. I do not think the evolution theory denies that (or do I need to go back to school?)

The composition of earth has changed over millions of years. See the difference in compostion of the inner and outer planets of the solar system and they are from the same common ancestor.

Even on earth, Leave a polished aluminum pot in air and see the difference. Multiply the effect by millions of years and you get a new material.
there is a difference between evolving and changing. The polished aluminum may gain dust, but that isn't evolving. I am sure you see what I mean here.



Suppose, I am on death bed. I accept Christ as my savior. Does that wash away all my past sins.... If yes then GOD save us all (pun intended)
I have no idea to be honest with you. However, I do believe you have to have an established relationship with Christ and truly believe, not just accept. It says in revelation that God will spit out all luke-warm christians from his mouth. This means that people who think Christ is the savior, but dont do as christians should do or whatever the case may be, God doesn't allow into heaven.



Now, you are going to say, if we are born into original sin, what about Jesus. This means he sinned. I am going to answer that now! Jesus was born of divinity, of God. He was not born like a normal human, as you know. And since God didn't choose something aside from his own rules, Jesus wasn't born into sin, rather he was born without sin. He then remained in such a state his whole life.



Again, I have never EVER seen proof of that.....Why do different set of rules apply to different individuals (meaning GOD and man)


Because God was the Father. He gave himself birth through a miraculous set of circumstances that has never, and will never, be duplicated again. It was a virgin who gave birth to a little boy named Jesus. Different rules apply for your boss at work do they not? But as I said before, Jesus wasn't born of man and woman concieving, he was born of God.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Jesus WAS baptized. He was baptized by his cousin John the baptist.





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