Automation is the Future

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Take away all technology whatsoever. No spears, no making fire, nothing, just animals. There is no such thing as a job, you wake up, hunt & scavenge, have babies, repeat. That is not a job that is just living. Technology creates jobs, without technology there is no such thing as a job. So the more automated the more jobs.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
You seem to be looking at it backwards.

You have 20 workers making X number of widgets a day.

They are replaced by a machine that makes the same number of widgets and only needs 1 worker to load material into it and 1 worker to come in every now and then to perform maintenance.

So where there once were 20 jobs there are now only 2 jobs and one of them is part-time. How is that more jobs?

a reply to: daskakik

They had to create that machine that creates the machine that creates the machine. & ya, maintanance, but also the more products made than a bigger sellers market appears. More widespread distrubution. Creating loads & loads of entrepanuers & delivery & so on. Than you make robots for those but that means more college students so more teachers & people to make comouters for the students. Thats just a couple things, its endless. No tech. no jobs, more tech. more jobs, its that easy.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
Yeah but the machines that create machines don't mean jobs for humans other than a day of maintenance a month if not longer, so 1 job per 20 machines that displaced 400 people. How is 1 more than 400.

You make it sound like it takes 1 person to make a single computer. It might take a team to design but once in production the machine that makes machines pumps them out without the need for many humans.

I'll give you resellers, content creators and delivery jobs being on the rise but you can't sell, have people watch your content or ask for deliveries if people don't have the money to spend.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
You do understand that in order to buy something, you need money, that you need to earn first?

Your idea reads like two people that do not have a ladder and they contemplate a plan to step on each others foot until they reached the roof.

That's you in this discussion.

a reply to: daskakik

Well you wouldn't have a fone or house right now, or car or food or beverages without automation unless you went to war for it because there wouldnt be enough stuff to go around. We can support 7 billion people because of automation. Without it, people would die off drastically from not having anything.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

That is actually how you guys sound to me, haha thats a funny saying for both sides.

Your think too right now & not past & present. Your thinking of automation as a form of uncontrollable circumstances.

Without automation you don't have transexuals, or race cars, or hi c, or your couch if you have one. No candles or heat or lightz for you. How survivable does that sound for 7 billion people to you? Find someone that made a fone without automation. This isn't a discussion about what we need & don't though, its about you using what you have because automation made it possible for you to still be surviving for it without constant war for life everyday.

Automation creates jobs ha

a reply to: PhantomAntics
But that is a different point, automation means more production but not necessarily more jobs.

You seem to be confusing the two.

Besides, I never said it was a bad thing, just that you are looking at the number of jobs wrong. Just saying people are selling online or delivering things on scooters doesn't really say how many people are actually making a living from those sorts of activities.

Just like saying an automated line creates a maintenance job but taking into account how many people it replaced shows negative job growth not an increase.

a reply to: daskakik

Thats the thing its always changing the jobs needed. If cars werw built by hand itd take 20 years to get everyone just one type of car. That means no gas company to work at cause noones getting gas, no drilling because no gas company needs it etc. Automation makes other companies be bigger & better too. It literally creates more new kinds of job everytime it gets better. The number of jobs available keep rising. If automation didn't create more jobs than it destroys we literally would have been jobless in the early 1900s, but thats not how automation works. Its not just gonna magically reverse direction of job growth, its going to stay the same growth as long as jobs last. Im sure the neanderthals thought tbe cro magnuns were going to render everyone jobless with their fancy inventions, but everytime humans evolve there becomes more of us because of automation.

Without automation we wouldnt get to space, space has so many more endless jobs for us.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
I'm not saying it doesn't create jobs, including new types of jobs. I'm saying you have not given a number of how many of these jobs it actually creates to compare to the number of jobs it eliminates.

So yeah, people can stay in school until their mid twenties because they don't have to work at a factory from their early teens to help out at home but that isn't because there are more jobs, it is because production is streamlined and cheaper, that other thing you keep confusing with "more jobs".

a reply to: daskakik

ohk. johhny has a farm he does by hand. he produces 5 apples a day. Johnny gets 1 cutomer per hour. Johnny sells his apples. One day, johnny buys an automatic apple grower. johnny produces 50 apples a day. Johhny gets 10 customers per hour. Johnny isn't working the fields so he can sell twice as long but he has apples left over.

How can johhny sell all of his apples?

Is johhny creating more jobs or less jobs from buying an automatic apple grower?

Are people who eat apples bananas?

a reply to: PhantomAntics
Johnny has a farm that can produce 50 apples a day and for this he hires 10 people since each one produces 5 apples a day.

One day, johnny buys an automatic apple grower that produces 50 apples a day. Johhny gets 10 customers per hour and in 5 hours he is out of apples and the 10 people are out of a job.

How exactly is Johnny producing more jobs?

a reply to: daskakik

lol bad business to hire so many employees. he should hire less employees but at least people that would never have had a job got one. they wouldnt be out of a job either though if he hired so many people they would come back the next day to sell more apples. I didnt think that was a hard problem to solve. I cant make it any simpler than that sorry.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
You can't even work the math out in your simple example.

Sell what apples?

He gets 10 customers per hour and the machine produces 50 apples a day, there are no extra apples for anyone to come back the next day to sell.

You just threw in that he had apples left over, out of nowhere.

a reply to: daskakik

oh sorry i didnt realize you read that wrong. i didn't mention him hiring people. i thought that you put that as your answer not that you read it wrong.

a reply to: PhantomAntics
I wasn't talking about him hiring people in the previous post, I was talking about him getting 10 customers per hour with the machine producing 50 apples a day, which means he would be out of apples in 5 hours so there would be nothing left over for anyone else to sell.

Where is the job(s) that he created by automating in your example?

Also, I added the 10 workers in my original answer to match the output of the machine, since nobody automates to produce less than what they were already producing and if 1 person produces 5 apples a day it would have had to be 10 to match that.

a reply to: daskakik

thats my bad. I figured johhny can only sell 1 apple an hour but now he has the machine he had time to sell 2 apples an hour was implied. So he needs people to help him sell.

if he has people to help him grow, he doesn't have that many to help him sell because there isn't an unlimited work force without automation.

I guess i screwed up the question. im an idiot but there is an example about how automation creates more jobs. im just not the one to take the time to make it correctly.

or how about if russia had automation & america didn't. we still lived like a third world country. agriculture would ammount most of our income. we would have 10 thousand job opening while russia had 100 thousand. We would be like the indians & lose our land from more evolutionized beings too like russia.

noone in history that had way less automation survived without kneeling to an outside force. they just couldnt produce enough food or water to survive a population growth, it leads to civil war & empire disanbandonment.

with automation we can have 20 billion people surviving on earth. Without this technology we would still only have 1 billion people like in the 1700s. no automatic machines for hospitals ir to get people to the hospitals. no automatic safety equiptment. no widessread medicines or any good meds. considering all really good ones were made from automation. if automation creates population growth that itself creates more jobs beside everytjing else i mentioned.

Ive mentiined enough reasons in this thread to produce a huge argument for automation cresting jobs ha orob. shoulda not half assed the thread & put it all in the beginning.

originally posted by: PhantomAntics
or how about if russia had automation & america didn't. we still lived like a third world country. agriculture would ammount most of our income. we would have 10 thousand job opening while russia had 100 thousand. We would be like the indians & lose our land from more evolutionized beings too like russia.

Again, I never said automation was a bad thing. What you can't prove is that automation would provide russia with 100k jobs while the us would only have 10K because it wasn't automated.

You keep saying automation creates more jobs but you can't seem to back that up with anything. Your example didn't show any jobs created. There were 2 jobs, producing apples and selling apples, done by one person. One was automated so that is -1 job being done by a human. That human can now sell for more time but you have no way of knowing how many apples he can sell in an hour. He might be able to sell all 50 in one hour because the towns housewives all stop by after dropping the kids off at school or have them set aside from a big buyer like the local diner that uses them in their famous apple pie.

Like I said before there is more production and this could and often means better price but that isn't the same as jobs.

a reply to: daskakik

Developing countries have way more of a job problem than developed countries. They are call undeveloped because they have no automation whatsoever pretty much. They have a job problem because there are no jobs without becoming more developed, without automation. You also stay poor without automation so than you have way less jobs you can afford.

originally posted by: PhantomAntics
They are call undeveloped because they have no automation whatsoever pretty much.

Wrong, I live in one of those countries and there is a lot of automation or at least industrialization.

They have a job problem because there are no jobs without becoming more developed, without automation.

Wrong again, there are a lot of jobs but they often pay very little.

You also stay poor without automation so than you have way less jobs you can afford.

Again with the unfounded claim that it is automation that creates jobs.

You need to bring a better argument than just repeating the same unfounded claim over and over, or just admit that maybe you were looking at it wrong.