What is a biblical concept that you (as a christian) believe, but wish you understood better?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
No I didn't lie.

That one would be the rare example.

But 99% of the time Nakedness is nakedness. And you will be naked both spiritually and physically when you stand before the Lord at the Great White Thrown Judgement.

Christians don’t stand before the Lord at the Great White Throne Judgment. 🤦‍♂️

Now I will fully concede if you can FIND ONE, Just One verse in the AV1611 where nakedness is shown as a SPIRITUAL CONDITION (private interpretation).

And you most certainly did lie, you said you would fully concede if I could “FIND ONE” (ALL CAPS) example of nakedness being used as a metaphor for a spiritual condition, and that example was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ using it as such. Repent.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

And I did by admitting to that one.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

And I did by admitting to that one.

Tell me what lesson God was teaching Adam and Eve by killing animals and making them clothes to wear, why were their efforts to cover their own nakedness not acceptable? What was the spiritual application there?

Why was Abel’s offering acceptable to God and Cain’s offering rejected? Was God teaching vicarious atonement all the way back in the first book of the Torah, Y or N?

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Sin = Death, and animal sacrifice was a placeholder for this.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Cain and Abels offering, probably based on the heart intention than what was sacrificed. There was no covenant recorded regarding what should be offered

“By Faith” is what differentiates the offering, seemingly not the physical items

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Cain and Abels offering, probably based on the heart intention than what was sacrificed. There was no covenant recorded regarding what should be offered

This is true, Cain offered the fruit of his own labors. (Works). Abel’s offering was the shedding of innocent blood, vicarious atonement. (Grace)

“By Faith” is what differentiates the offering, seemingly not the physical items

Yes, but the items offered also represent something. See above.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Show me biblically where there was a command that only blood was accepted
There is nothing in the text but “by faith” anything more is just assumed

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Show me biblically where there was a command that only blood was accepted
There is nothing in the text but “by faith” anything more is just assumed

Alright..

”For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.” - Leviticus 17:11

and echoed again in the NT:

”According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” - Hebrews 9:22

Blood is required for the remission of sins, application of that forgiveness based on the blood is accessed by faith.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yeah, Leviticus, just a bit later by centuries than Genesis dontcha think
Can’t apply Leviticus law to Cain and Able, like applying Christianity to Judaism or vice versa

And interestingly enough, Jesus forgave many people their sin before His blood was shed on the cross

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yeah, Leviticus, just a bit later by centuries than Genesis dontcha think
Can’t apply Leviticus law to Cain and Able, like applying Christianity to Judaism or vice versa

All truth is established by the mouth of 2-3 witnesses, I gave both the old and new testaments. At this point you are confronted with two choices; A: let the Word of God form your theology or B: make the Word of God conform to you. One of those choices is sound exegesis and hermeneutics and the other is idolatry, you have created your own god in your heart.

And interestingly enough, Jesus forgave many people their sin before His blood was shed on the cross

He did, true. People who appeared at the temple every year on Yom Kippur to bring their sin sacrifice according to the law. The significance of Jesus was a once and for all atonement for sin.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Even before Jesus died, He forgave sin

And you can’t claim the Mosaic covenant was over Cain and Able, it wasn’t established yet
Meditate on that.
Cain’s sin was unfaithfulness, it’s clearly written in the text
It seems Blood sacrifice was not an issue, read the text, don’t take my word

Prove otherwise but the Mosaic covenant, it wasn’t ratified in genesis

“Was it because of the HEART of the person making the offering? (ref Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did.)”
answersingenesis.org...

The text clearly states it was by faith it was rejected, anything you add is assumed, go read the text

a reply to: Raggedyman

I didn’t say the Mosaic Covenant applied to Cain and Abel. I said the reason why Cain’s sacrifice was rejected was it was the product of his own efforts, representing an effort to reconcile himself with God by works. Abel’s sacrifice was accepted because it was a blood sacrifice of the first of his livestock. Abel’s sacrifice represents vicarious atonement.

And I already said application of that grace is accessed by faith, because “without faith it is impossible to please God.”

But make zero mistake, everything in the Torah, and OT for that manner, points to Jesus Christ.

Well people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder - they got a problem if they want to be Christians.

Because they can fly of the handle about something that is just their interpretation of events.

And the Bible says, don't bear false witness.

And they bear false witness all the time.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

What’s “everything in the Old Testament” go to do with this conversation
There is no reference in the pre Cain and able genesis record that blood was needed to forgive sin, no record that one offering was rejected for any other reason than it was rejected on the basis “ by faith”

Believe what you want, so far you have offered nothing but assumption

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: NOTurTypical

What’s “everything in the Old Testament” go to do with this conversation

Quite a lot. Everything in the Scriptures points to Jesus Christ, that includes Genesis. This includes Adam and Eve being clothed with animal skins, it includes the sacrifices of Abel and Cain, (our current topic, and everything else beyond them. The entire Law and Prophets points to Jesus.

There is no reference in the pre Cain and able genesis record that blood was needed to forgive sin, no record that one offering was rejected for any other reason than it was rejected on the basis “ by faith”

Already addressed this above. Twice.

Believe what you want, so far you have offered nothing but assumption

I believe what God has revealed about Himself in His Word. Vicarious atonement has always been his M.O. for forgiveness of sins. The Holy Spirit is the author of Hebrews, which says without the shedding of blood there is no remission/forgiveness of sin.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Amen brother.

a reply to: halfoldman

It keep some people on the right track.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

it had nothing to do with their spiritual condition he made them coats because they KNEW they were naked.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: NOTurTypical

it had nothing to do with their spiritual condition he made them coats because they KNEW they were naked.

They weren’t naked, they first made themselves clothes to cover their literal nakedness. (Genesis 3:7)

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Nothing humans do can cover their shame, we need God's grace and sacrifice. The clothes they made were inadequate. That was the whole point.