Great Pyramid Void Enigma - Excerpt#1 From My New Book

a reply to: Scott Creighton

I wasn't so much concerned with what's in it but why it would be there. See if they needed a bigger room they could have just made 1 void bigger. Having 2 if we are to assume it was done for a purpose then the smaller one would have a purpose too.

Now if these are relieving chambers like some speculate that explains both since they would need to lower the weight above the entrance to avoid collapse. Now if they were designed on the plans I agree there has to be a purpose for the rooms. If they were built by throwing small stones in the middle of the pyramid it seems a large portion of the pyramid we would consider rubble instead of blocks these voids could be those small stones settling over the centuries.

Tho other problem I don't like is would they really create a room they could never access? Egyptian priests like having access to the tombs in fact they knew how to open the door instead of blowing a hole in it. Originally the pyramids could be opened and closed. The Great Pyramid had a swivel door entrance at one time. Swivel doors were found in two other pyramids as well. So by its very design, it was made to be entered later. It kind of supports your theory until we say there is no way to access these voids. Shame they stole the door would have been neat to see it work.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Scott Creighton

Originally the pyramids could be opened and closed. The Great Pyramid had a swivel door entrance at one time. Swivel doors were found in two other pyramids as well. So by its very design, it was made to be entered later. It kind of supports your theory until we say there is no way to access these voids.

I agree - the pyramids were designed to be entered (which, when you think about it, kinda punches a hole in the mainstream tomb-of-the-pharaoh narrative - this is the very last thing a king would have wanted, an easily accessible tomb). Rather, the 'accessible' chambers were to be entered by the survivors of the cataclysm since these monuments, according to the Sūrīd 'legend', were built in order that the kingdom could be reborn after the anticipated cataclysmic flood had destroyed everything. These monuments were essentially 'arks', whose accessible chambers would have held within them everything necessary to assist the recovery of the Kingdom. That is essentially what the Sūrīd 'legend' tells us. So yes - those chambers would have stored all these vital recovery items (tools, seeds, knowledge etc, etc) that the survivors would have needed.

But this accessibility is absolutely not what you would want for the ancestor Kings & Queens interred in the Big Void. They were the 'engine' the 'heart beat' of Sūrīd's entire recovery project and had to be protected (as best they could). If they were found and their bodies desecrated/destroyed then it could have resulted in complete failure of the recovery plan. The job of the departed 'Osiris Kings' was to intercede with the gods in the Afterlife for the good of the kingdom to ensure the Nile would flow, the crops would grow, the winds would blow etc, etc. They could only do this if their bodies had been properly preserved through mummification and placed in a secure 'secret chamber'.

However, were their entombed bodies to have been discovered and destroyed by tomb raiders (along with their Ka doubles in the Grand Gallery below) then it would have meant complete disaster hence why, imo, the ancestor 'Osiris Kings' were gathered up by Sūrīd and placed high up within a completely inaccessible, secret chamber of the GP (laid there when the Big Void had been built but just before its roof was sealed making the BV 'chamber completely inaccessible). If there is no passage to the chamber then there can be no hint that such a chamber even exists. It is the perfect 'burial' chamber and that is one of the reasons I think Sūrīd's ancestors will be found therein - just as the Sūrīd 'legend' implies.

"…upon which the king [Sūrīd] ordered the Pyramids to be built... and he placed within them his treasures, and all his valuable property, together with the bodies of his ancestors." - (my emphasis)

Am I right? Alas, we'll just have to wait and see.

SC

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

... the ancestor Kings & Queens interred in the Big Void. They were the 'engine' the 'heart beat' of Sūrīd's entire recovery project and had to be protected (as best they could). If they were found and their bodies desecrated/destroyed then it could have resulted in complete failure of the recovery plan. The job of the departed 'Osiris Kings' was to intercede with the gods in the Afterlife for the good of the kingdom to ensure the Nile would flow, the crops would grow, the winds would blow etc, etc. They could only do this if their bodies had been properly preserved through mummification and placed in a secure 'secret chamber'.

However, were their entombed bodies to have been discovered ...

... It is the perfect 'burial' chamber and that is one of the reasons I think Sūrīd's ancestors will be found therein - just as the Sūrīd 'legend' implies.

"…upon which the king [Sūrīd] ordered the Pyramids to be built... and he placed within them his treasures, and all his valuable property, together with the bodies of his ancestors." - (my emphasis)

But you state in The Giza Genesis Plan that:

... the Pyramids are ‘Recovery Vaults’ and not Tombs ...

... tombs must logically be ruled out as the function of these pyramids ...

... If not tombs, then what? .... (etc., etc.)

So how do you reconcile these two opposing positions: that the pyramid contained "entombed bodies", but ... wasn't actually a tomb?

a reply to: Hooke

Similar situation at Newgrange Ireland which was thought to be an early astronomical observatory over 5000 years ago.
Thousands of years later it was used as a sacred burial site.
What do you get with 97 Kerb stones and ghosts an Elf King?

a reply to: Hooke

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think he is implying it's both. He wouldn't have known about the void at the time I don't think. So the only part he would have known was the recovery vaults?

To be honest, I'm not sold on this though I find it hard to believe that the Pharoah would have even cared the ancient Egyptians saw the flood as life bringing they expected it every year. In fact, knew it was vital to their survival.

originally posted by: Scott Creighton
These monuments were essentially 'arks', whose accessible chambers would have held within them everything necessary to assist the recovery of the Kingdom.

Stone tools? A nice granite box? It couldn't be grain; there's not enough room in there to keep enough grain to feed all of Egypt for more than a day or two. Gold? Not likely... they were stealing it from other pharaohs. Couldn't be lumber; you'd never get that down there. Scrolls? What's the point when every temple had a large library.

Linen?

Onions?

Other pharaohs?

And why if it was for the "recovery of the kingdom" didn't they open it at the beginning of any of the Intermediate periods or when various cultures invaded (and when they wrested control of Egypt back into the hands of Egyptians.)

well the GP is a complex thing, it may incorporate some porposes not only one, being a burial.

you take the 900AD stories of Al-Masudi literally and a basis for a 'theory' for the GP that was built 3500 years before, seriously?

what the big void above the great gallery is is unclear, I think the structural integrity of the gallery is crucial for the whole internal structures, it must not collapse. Therefore the mass above it seems to be somewhat less, so less pressure down.
the small void behind the original entrance is nor a mystery, roofed with chevrons, protecting a room behind.

a reply to: anti72

I could see that would be a good place for say an alter? It would allow people to leave tributes for the pharoah.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Hooke

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think he is implying it's both. He wouldn't have known about the void at the time I don't think. So the only part he would have known was the recovery vaults?

Yes ... but, in the past, he has been categorical in his rejection of the idea of pyramids-as-tombs (see his "Ten Facts.")

Now that the "voids" question has emerged, however, Scott has suddenly changed tune, actively promoting the idea that "mummified bodies" of royal ancestors were interred in the Big Void.

To be honest, I'm not sold on this though I find it hard to believe that the Pharoah would have even cared the ancient Egyptians saw the flood as life bringing they expected it every year. In fact, knew it was vital to their survival.

Well: yes ... There's obviously a difference between the real-life annual Nile flooding, which, as you say, "was vital to their survival," and a mythical worldwide deluge - a myth (as briefly mentioned by anti72) not recorded in Egypt until the mediaeval era, by Arab writers, and then initially only concerning temples, not the pyramids.

originally posted by: Hooke

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

... the ancestor Kings & Queens interred in the Big Void. They were the 'engine' the 'heart beat' of Sūrīd's entire recovery project and had to be protected (as best they could). If they were found and their bodies desecrated/destroyed then it could have resulted in complete failure of the recovery plan. The job of the departed 'Osiris Kings' was to intercede with the gods in the Afterlife for the good of the kingdom to ensure the Nile would flow, the crops would grow, the winds would blow etc, etc. They could only do this if their bodies had been properly preserved through mummification and placed in a secure 'secret chamber'.

However, were their entombed bodies to have been discovered ...

... It is the perfect 'burial' chamber and that is one of the reasons I think Sūrīd's ancestors will be found therein - just as the Sūrīd 'legend' implies.

"…upon which the king [Sūrīd] ordered the Pyramids to be built... and he placed within them his treasures, and all his valuable property, together with the bodies of his ancestors." - (my emphasis)

But you state in The Giza Genesis Plan that:

... the Pyramids are ‘Recovery Vaults’ and not Tombs ...

... tombs must logically be ruled out as the function of these pyramids ...

... If not tombs, then what? .... (etc., etc.)

So how do you reconcile these two opposing positions: that the pyramid contained "entombed bodies", but ... wasn't actually a tomb?

I do not see this as contradictory at all. If the purpose of Sūrīd's pyramid-building project was, primarily to ensure the recovery of the kingdom, then he would, as the Sūrīd 'legend' tells us, have placed all the necessary 'recovery goods' within the pyramids. But if he had not bothered to also include the 'Osiris Kings' (his dead ancestors) also in this ark he was building then they could have been destroyed by the foretold deluge and then Sūrīd's recovery plan would have been rendered entirely futile.

It was the 'responsibility' of the ancestors (the gods) to ensure the sun would rise, the waters would flow, the crops would grow etc. If all their bodies were completely destroyed in the future cataclysm then there could be no hope of any recovery - none. In this sense then, the ancestors were the 'engine' of Sūrīd's Recovery System, the 'beating heart', the vital component. By relocating them from their original burial to his 'ark' then the kingdom had a chance of recovery from the approaching disaster.

Does this make the pyramid a tomb? Certainly not in the conventional sense. The primary purpose of the pyramids in my theory is to bring about the recovery of the Kingdom whereas Egyptology asserts their primary function was simply to serve as the tomb of the king, each one with their own pyramid. Quite different perspectives. And in The Recovery Vault Theory, there will be no 'Osiris Kings' in any of the other pyramids. I say this because no equivalent of the Grand Gallery has ever been detected in any othese other pyramids where the Ka doubles (statues) on the 'Osiris Kings' could be placed. Besides, it appears that all 27 of Khufu's ancestor kings (going back to Menes) have a place in the GP (along with their queens), hence the 27 sockets on either side of the Grand Gallery 'pavements'.

SC

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Hooke

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think he is implying it's both. He wouldn't have known about the void at the time I don't think. So the only part he would have known was the recovery vaults?

To be honest, I'm not sold on this though I find it hard to believe that the Pharoah would have even cared the ancient Egyptians saw the flood as life bringing they expected it every year. In fact, knew it was vital to their survival.

"Then Thoth, being the tongue of the Great God declares that, acting for the Lord Tem, he is going to make a Flood. He says: “I am going to blot out everything that I have made. This Earth shall enter into (be absorbed in) the watery abyss of Nu (or Nunu) by means of a raging flood, and will become even as it was in primeval times . . . one day the Nile will rise and cover all Egypt with water, and drown the whole country; then, as in the beginning, there will be nothing to be seen except water.” - Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead

It's also my opinion (which I back up with circumstantial evidence in my new book) that the 'myth' of Isis and Osiris is an allegorical story of a Deluge which affected Egypt in remote antiquity.

SC

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Scott Creighton
These monuments were essentially 'arks', whose accessible chambers would have held within them everything necessary to assist the recovery of the Kingdom.

Stone tools?

Tools certainly, not sure if stone, copper, bronze or even possibly iron.

A nice granite box?

Definitely required since this was a ritual chthonic chamber concerning the recovery of the Kingdom (the Earth). Which is why they would have placed earth (not a king's body) in the granite box. Which is why that is exactly what Belzoni in 1818 found in G2's so-called 'sarcophagus' - just plain old Egyptian earth and stones!

It couldn't be grain; there's not enough room in there to keep enough grain to feed all of Egypt for more than a day or two.

Have you ever heard of the Svalbard Global Seed Vault? Do you think its purpose is to feed the entire world after some great future Earth cataclysm? Have a think about it.

Gold? Not likely... they were stealing it from other pharaohs.

For the gold and other really precious stuff, see one of my previous books here.

Scrolls? What's the point when every temple had a large library.

That were about to be obliterated.

Linen?

Possibly.

Onions?

Most likely many, many seed types would have been stored.

Other pharaohs?

That's what they tell us and given they were the essential component to the recovery of the kingdom, then almost certainly. 27 of them, in fact - all the way back to Menes.

And why if it was for the "recovery of the kingdom" didn't they open it at the beginning of any of the Intermediate periods or when various cultures invaded (and when they wrested control of Egypt back into the hands of Egyptians.)

Who knows when the items were removed? But I imagine the pyramids were accessed and the contents therein removed in the same or similar way to how Egyptology imagines the King's body and all his grave goods were stolen.

SC

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: anti72

I could see that would be a good place for say an alter? It would allow people to leave tributes for the pharoah.

you know, much is really speculation here. Most important would be having access at least for the funeral priest at the time of the burial. The story about the swiwel door, I dont believe that, all other features we see now tell us the opposite ( doesnt make a difference on what we actually see )
KC was sealed, other two chambers empty.
The void above the GG, I think it maybe has architectural/ static porposes.
In the plans of Gantenbrink and Houdin you can see how the N shafts of the QC AND KC have a clearly planned and executed curve ( at least) to avoid the GG. (Houdin places his new antechambers there.)
This makes sense for me, because WHY the heck would the EA build that conplicated alterations instead of just straight if it was not absolutley necessary because something IS there.







evaluation why the beams above the KC cracked:
www.youtube.com...

the idea that the notches on the sidesteps of the GG maybe for statues is absurd, the GG makes only sense as a construction room, it does not at all look like a ceremonial room. The steep incline of it is technical, also the notches.

The angle of the GG's incline is 50% percent grade, for each cubit of height you extend 2 cubits horizontally.
Never have so many huge and long 60+ tonnes of rose granite slabs ( 43) been transported so high into the body of a pyramid, 140 feet, Hemeniu and his teams had to address this anew. All the more after the experiences with his fathers builds.

many architectural/ engineering details of the GG are addressed by JP Houdin that many fail to address and actually explain. At the moment no one else has an almost complete building theory that makes sense except his.

originally posted by: anti72
.edit.

Most Egyptologists dismiss the Coptic-Egyptian Sūrīd tradition as simply myth and legend, the wild imaginings of a primitive and superstitious people. According to Egyptologists, the pyramids (all of them) were built simply as the tomb and eternal afterlife machine for the reigning pharaoh. End of lesson. It has long been my own view, however, that there is often some truth and much to be learned from within our ancient myths and legends, in particular the so-called 'Legend of Sūrīd' passed down to us by the Coptic-Egyptians and their Arabic translators. Indeed, I find it not a little gratifying to learn that more and more scientists seem now to be realising what many of us in the alternative history community have been saying for a very long time - that there are some essential truths of our ancient past wrapped up and lost in these so-called 'myths'.

The study of geomythology (founded by American geologist, Dorothy Vitaliano), is probably one of the newest scientific fields that is now emerging into full-blown mainstream study. Geomythology essentially studies ancient myths with a view to interpreting material that is often couched in deeply symbolic and often highly embroidered language into natural events of a geological, astronomical and even palaeontological nature that occurred in great antiquity. In the words of Vitaliano, ". . . [geomythology] helps convert mythology back into history."

Geologists have started to realize that there's actually information in some of humanity's oldest traditions and stories and that while it's of a different type of information than we tend to gravitate towards in contemporary science, it is still information”.

Despite the growth of geomythology, it is still seen as “flaky” by some academics. “Probably an element of stodginess on the part of scientists and historians still figures!” says Mayor. “But geomythological stories are expressed in poetic metaphors and mythic or supernatural imagery, and descriptions of catastrophic events and natural phenomena can be garbled over millennia, and because of this scientists and historians tend to miss the kernels of truth and rational concepts embedded in their narratives.”

Nunn puts this argument more strongly. “I'm a conventionally trained geologist and I can tell you that a lot of other conventionally trained geoscientists really don't like this kind of thing. There's a lot who are curious about it, but by and large, it's something that is considered so radical that people really don't want to consider it.

In the end, geomythology challenges our way of thinking about our past, and our future. “Geomythology challenges the belief that all myths and legends are only fictions and fantasy,” says Mayor. “Geomyths are treasuries of information and details for the physical sciences that would otherwise be missed.” - from here.

SC

a reply to: Scott Creighton

sorry for my edit.. I just read the other posts again.
its a personal choice what sources somebody uses for his books.

originally posted by: anti72
.edit.

“Muhamed ibn Ishaq Ibn al-Nadim, quoted by Ahmad ibn Ali al-Maqrizi, writes “…A passage pierces this pavement…; the arch is made of stone and one sees there portraits and statues standing or resting and a quantity of other things, the meaning of which we do not understand.” And Ibrahim Wassif Shah writes: “…In the eastern pyramid [Great Pyramid], chambers had been built in which the stars and heavens were depicted, and in which was amassed what Surid’s forebears had Accomplished in the way of statues.” - A. Pochan, The Mysteries of the Great Pyramids: The Luminous Horizons of Khoufou, (Avon, 1978).

If, as the Coptic tradition tells us, Surid placed the bodies of his ancestors within the pyramid (the Big Void) then each of those ancestors would require a Ka double (statue) as a surrogate for the king's ka should his actual mummified body become too badly decomposed or otherwise destroyed.

SC

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

originally posted by: anti72
.edit.

“Muhamed ibn Ishaq Ibn al-Nadim, quoted by Ahmad ibn Ali al-Maqrizi, writes “…A passage pierces this pavement…; the arch is made of stone and one sees there portraits and statues standing or resting and a quantity of other things, the meaning of which we do not understand.” And Ibrahim Wassif Shah writes: “…In the eastern pyramid [Great Pyramid], chambers had been built in which the stars and heavens were depicted, and in which was amassed what Surid’s forebears had Accomplished in the way of statues.” - A. Pochan, The Mysteries of the Great Pyramids: The Luminous Horizons of Khoufou, (Avon, 1978).

If Surid placed the bodies of his ancestors within the pyramid (the Big Void) then each of those ancestors would require a Ka double (statue) as a surrogate for the king's ka should his actual mummified body become too badly decomposed or otherwise destroyed.

SC

yes, thats you believe and conclude for yourself.

I still am working on understanding the architecture as this has to be planned and build first.

much later early christian, arabic or coptic texts are not sufficient, at least for my taste.
Erich von Däniken also cited arabic fairy tales for his book ' eyes of the sphinx'.

and I'm sick of those lies. His and other ..authors.

originally posted by: anti72

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

originally posted by: anti72
.edit.

“Muhamed ibn Ishaq Ibn al-Nadim, quoted by Ahmad ibn Ali al-Maqrizi, writes “…A passage pierces this pavement…; the arch is made of stone and one sees there portraits and statues standing or resting and a quantity of other things, the meaning of which we do not understand.” And Ibrahim Wassif Shah writes: “…In the eastern pyramid [Great Pyramid], chambers had been built in which the stars and heavens were depicted, and in which was amassed what Surid’s forebears had Accomplished in the way of statues.” - A. Pochan, The Mysteries of the Great Pyramids: The Luminous Horizons of Khoufou, (Avon, 1978).

If Surid placed the bodies of his ancestors within the pyramid (the Big Void) then each of those ancestors would require a Ka double (statue) as a surrogate for the king's ka should his actual mummified body become too badly decomposed or otherwise destroyed.

SC

yes, thats you believe and conclude for yourself.

I still am working on understanding the architecture as this has to be planned and build first.

much later early christian, arabic or coptic texts are not sufficient, at least for my taste.
Erich von Däniken also cited arabic fairy tales for his book ' eyes of the sphinx'.

and I'm sick of those lies. His and other ..authors.

How do you know this Coptic tradition is "fairly tales"? Are you suggesting that I am lying?

Do explain.

SC

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

originally posted by: anti72

originally posted by: Scott Creighton

originally posted by: anti72
.edit.

“Muhamed ibn Ishaq Ibn al-Nadim, quoted by Ahmad ibn Ali al-Maqrizi, writes “…A passage pierces this pavement…; the arch is made of stone and one sees there portraits and statues standing or resting and a quantity of other things, the meaning of which we do not understand.” And Ibrahim Wassif Shah writes: “…In the eastern pyramid [Great Pyramid], chambers had been built in which the stars and heavens were depicted, and in which was amassed what Surid’s forebears had Accomplished in the way of statues.” - A. Pochan, The Mysteries of the Great Pyramids: The Luminous Horizons of Khoufou, (Avon, 1978).

If Surid placed the bodies of his ancestors within the pyramid (the Big Void) then each of those ancestors would require a Ka double (statue) as a surrogate for the king's ka should his actual mummified body become too badly decomposed or otherwise destroyed.

SC

yes, thats you believe and conclude for yourself.

I still am working on understanding the architecture as this has to be planned and build first.

much later early christian, arabic or coptic texts are not sufficient, at least for my taste.
Erich von Däniken also cited arabic fairy tales for his book ' eyes of the sphinx'.

and I'm sick of those lies. His and other ..authors.

How do you know this Coptic tradition is "fairly tales"? Are you suggesting that I am lying?

Do explain.

SC

I was referring to Däniken, in his '91 book eyes of the sphinx, p.255.
he is a nut and I dont have to explain to you.
but for sake of it, eg he referres to ( p 264 ) Sitchin as ' american orientalist', he believes ( or at least uses ) his writings about Vyse 's alleged hoax and selling it in his book ( swiss/german) :

he calls Sitchins writings ' scharfsinniges, kriminologisches Meisterstück', meaning 'astute, criminalistic, masterpiece'.

'Aufgrund von Daten, Aussprüchen und Tagebuchaufzeichnungen, doch insbesondere wegen eines orthografischen Fehlers, der dem Fälscher unterlief, zerpflückt ZS das Gaunerstück des Duos Vyse/ Perring.''

Vyse/ Perring are 'Gauner' ('crooks' and 'rogue').
and on page 265 etc
arabic fairy tales p 255, referrs to Hitat of Muhammed al-Makrizi ( 1364-1442)..too long to quote by hand.

also the ideas of the deluge and the pyramids and other BS.
the professionals debunked all those lies long ago.

pyramidengeheimnisse.de...
www.sitchiniswrong.com...

quote from the first page:

''Arabian sources are the first choice for mysterious legends around the pyramids. But as we have seen on the last page, we cannot trust them blindly. Although they may have a true core, they contain much fantasy around it. Other sources used in the Hitat are not much better than al-Kaisi. Most obvious are the exaggerations which are visible in comparing their descriptions with observable archaeological facts, like pyramid or stone block dimensions. In one often used source al-Makrizi writes about 30 treasure chambers in Kafres pyramid, containing weapons of the gods and foldable glass. Needless to say that this is one centrepiece used by alternative authors to explain some cover up and conspiracy theories. But in the same chapter Makrizi describes the interior of the pyramid as giant column hall - which definitively isn't there and has never been there. So why trust the description at all? From those reality-challenged tales in the Hitat we can conclude another thing: most authors featured in the Hitat have never been at or inside the pyramids, and have never seen the things they describe with their own eyes, contrary to their own words ("Then I went down into the pyramid..."). An uncritical use of those stories is therefore impossible. ''


in the 90s Däniken was kind of a loner with this and got away and is considered today as a kind of 'classic' but the lies have just become more popular since Fox' ancient aliens series.