Is demanding that U.S. Citizens Confirm they Are Eligible To Vote Truly Racist?

a reply to: Rob808

none of the numbers you quoted have anything to do with getting just a normal state approved id, which is 25-50$

What state do you live in?
How much does it cost to get a copy of your birth certificate?
How much does it cost to hire a wheelchair taxi to get you from your home to the ID issuing office 170 miles away?

But just on your numbers alone, (which are apparently only the fee that the state charges), with 21 million Americans without a State approved ID, that is between $500 million and a billion dollars required to just buy an ID card so you can vote. You do realize that it is unconstitutional to charge a poll tax don't you? Those states that do remember that, and give the ID's away for 'free' are spending that much of taxpayer's money (even before the cost of implementing the system into the election processes).

How many illegal in person (the only kind that your suggested ID might prevent) votes are you stopping for that half billion dollar (lets use the lower figure) spend? 2 or 3 per election - NATIONWIDE. About 30 in 20 years - NATIONWIDE . And here I thought conservatives were against wasting taxpayers money.

required to you know, work and pay taxes.... collect tax returns.

You DO NOT need a 'state issued ID card' to "work and pay taxes.... collect tax returns" in the USA, that is just more ignorant gaslighting.

I assume you are referring to form I-9.

Your first mistake (if we don't count your underlying motive of spreading misinformation) is that NOT EVERY 'worker' is required to fill out a form I-9. For a start, the self-employed, a large and expanding cohort in the USA (ever heard of the 'gig' economy?) do fill out I-9s.

But for the purposes of form I-9, a state ID card CAN be accepted, but NOT BY ITSELF. You need additional accompanying documents: Acceptable Documents for Verifying Employment Authorization and Identity

You need one ID from list 'A' OR you need one item from both list 'B' AND 'C'.
Notice that a State Issued ID (e.g. drivers license) is in the same list (list 'B') as a 'Voter Registration Card' - they are of EQUAL status for the purposes of form I-9 - they BOTH establish IDENTITY.

Notice also that a birth certificate can be used for the item in list 'C' - it establishes right to work (since it establishes citizenship).

People like aoc in NY say that voter ID is the same as racist voter suppression because minorities have a hard time getting a valid ID compared to white people who seem to get them with no problem at all.

If that is true, then requiring an ID to get a vaccine is openly racist and life threatening to minorities.

Where is the outrage from the left? Its not just about an ID - this is about a life saving vaccine. Where is the outrage???

a reply to: rnaa

Earlier I wrote:

For a start, the self-employed, a large and expanding cohort in the USA (ever heard of the 'gig' economy?) do fill out I-9s.

It was supposed to read:

For a start, the self-employed, a large and expanding cohort in the USA (ever heard of the 'gig' economy?) do NOT fill out I-9s.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

If that is true, then requiring an ID to get a vaccine is openly racist and life threatening to minorities.

This is of course, off topic for this thread, but anyway...

It might be, if it were true. I've looked at the rules for three states in the last 5 minutes, and not one of them requires a state issued photo ID, but they do ask you to bring some form of ID 'if you have it'. You will also be required to 'attest' that you are in the currently approved group (such an attestation is subject to penalty of perjury, by the way).

I do see that there is some confusion in Maine about 'uploading' your drivers license when making an appointment online. It is not clear whether this is an actual requirement, a suggestion that you can ignore, or a software error.

Where is the outrage from the left? Its not just about an ID - this is about a life saving vaccine. Where is the outrage???

If it is an actual requirement in Maine, it is outrageous. The problem is being publicized and will be worked out.

Where else is it a problem - yes you do need some form of ID when you get to your appointment - medical records systems like to know who they are dealing with - but you do not absolutely have to have a state issued photo ID.

What level of outrage would you like to see and where are you looking for it?

Perhaps you need to set aside some of your 'right wing' sources long enough to find out what the 'left wing' is saying about it? How do you know what the left is outraged about if you only listen to Fox or OANN? They are only interested in Dr. Seuss, not the vaccine roll out.

EDIT: I see Massachusetts and New York want evidence of residence in the State and that seems reasonable to me. Neither requires a state issued photo ID, though obviously for the vast majority of people a Drivers License is a trivial way to satisfy that request. This requirement is neither outrageous nor onerous. Evidence of residence can also be provided by a utility bill, for instance.


Here is the New York requirement: Instructions for New York State-Operated Vaccination Sites:

Step 3: Bring proof of eligibility to your appointment. Depending on your eligibility category, proof can include an employee ID card, a letter from an employer or affiliated organization, a pay stub, a driver's license, passport, or any legal proof of your date of birth and residency. At the time of your appointment, you'll be asked a series of clinical questions to ensure readiness for a vaccine. You will be asked for insurance information BUT the vaccine is free and there will never be a charge to you. This information is for administrative use only.

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: Rob808

none of the numbers you quoted have anything to do with getting just a normal state approved id, which is 25-50$

What state do you live in?
How much does it cost to get a copy of your birth certificate?
How much does it cost to hire a wheelchair taxi to get you from your home to the ID issuing office 170 miles away?

But just on your numbers alone, (which are apparently only the fee that the state charges), with 21 million Americans without a State approved ID, that is between $500 million and a billion dollars required to just buy an ID card so you can vote. You do realize that it is unconstitutional to charge a poll tax don't you? Those states that do remember that, and give the ID's away for 'free' are spending that much of taxpayer's money (even before the cost of implementing the system into the election processes).

How many illegal in person (the only kind that your suggested ID might prevent) votes are you stopping for that half billion dollar (lets use the lower figure) spend? 2 or 3 per election - NATIONWIDE. About 30 in 20 years - NATIONWIDE . And here I thought conservatives were against wasting taxpayers money.

required to you know, work and pay taxes.... collect tax returns.

You DO NOT need a 'state issued ID card' to "work and pay taxes.... collect tax returns" in the USA, that is just more ignorant gaslighting.

I assume you are referring to form I-9.

Your first mistake (if we don't count your underlying motive of spreading misinformation) is that NOT EVERY 'worker' is required to fill out a form I-9. For a start, the self-employed, a large and expanding cohort in the USA (ever heard of the 'gig' economy?) do fill out I-9s.

But for the purposes of form I-9, a state ID card CAN be accepted, but NOT BY ITSELF. You need additional accompanying documents: Acceptable Documents for Verifying Employment Authorization and Identity

You need one ID from list 'A' OR you need one item from both list 'B' AND 'C'.
Notice that a State Issued ID (e.g. drivers license) is in the same list (list 'B') as a 'Voter Registration Card' - they are of EQUAL status for the purposes of form I-9 - they BOTH establish IDENTITY.

Notice also that a birth certificate can be used for the item in list 'C' - it establishes right to work (since it establishes citizenship).

You mad bro? Your talking down to me saying you assume I was referring to an I-9 form, I specifically referenced it, by name. If you want to debate, try and keep up. Again you ignore my question, is it somehow prohibitive to require id to work? As a 1099 employee or a w2 employee your still providing your social which is a state issued id. The i9 form is an amazing example here, it provides many opportunities to prove id with multiple documents. Seems perfect for voting. You still haven’t answered any of my questions but your mad as hell!
How does one work, pay taxes and collect tax return without providing their social, a state issued id? Your just lying now.
You talk about gas lighting when you quote voter outreach programs as a cost to prevent voter id laws and call it a money grab, projection is clearly a familiar act for you. (I also haven’t specifically any specific kind of voter id be used, another projection on your part, you are battling phantoms my foolish friend...)

One last time if you want to play. Is it prohibitive or bias to require these forms of id such as through the I-9? You keep ignoring my question and are asking for personal info from me...

a reply to: rnaa

It is not off-topic, it is a comparison of hypocritical application of the same rule with different results. If the act of demanding an ID is racist, what the ID is used for should not matter. (you have to read between the lines sometimes...)

If, as some on the left assert, it is difficult for minorities to acquire state ID for voting purposes, then making that same ID mandatory for vaccines is an open threat to the lives of minorities. Is it really that hard to figure out?

Its the same overcritical approach the left have used against anything Trump for the last 4 years. Example: if Trump separates migrant children from the alleged parents at the border it is because he is a mean hateful person. You have to ignore the fact that A) obama and biden built the cages and used them first, B) as determined by border patrol officers in many cases the so-called parents and children don't know each others names, birthdays, history, etc. In other words, its more likely the children are being trafficked or used to qualify under the family law for immigration which grants priority over individuals. And C), it is unsafe to put children in a large populated holding area with adults they don't know. But none of that matters when the goal is to criticize the POTUS, not care for the children.

Again, enter hypocrisy. obama and biden build and use cages to separate children from adults = no response from the left. Trump separates children from adults and sites valid reasons why = outrage from the left. Now biden again separates children from adults and puts them in the same cages = no response from the left.

In regards to photo Id, I question your research skills. This took me less than a minute to find:


As for medical records, I am sure you are aware that illegals just go to ER's all over the country and receive treatment - no ID required.

I do not use 'right wing' sources. That is an old and tired way of trying to debunk information you disagree with. I quote the truth wherever I find it.

a reply to: Rob808

You mad bro? Your talking down to me saying you assume I was referring to an I-9 form, I specifically referenced it, by name. If you want to debate, try and keep up.
Meh. I missed the connection. Sorry.

Again you ignore my question, is it somehow prohibitive to require id to work? As a 1099 employee or a w2 employee your still providing your social which is a state issued id.
A social security card is (1) not an Identification document and (2) not State issued. It provides evidence of the right to work and the 'account' number under which taxes are kept.


The i9 form is an amazing example here, it provides many opportunities to prove id with multiple documents. Seems perfect for voting. You still haven’t answered any of my questions but your mad as hell!
And you are required to provided similar forms of identification WHEN YOU REGISTER TO VOTE (but actually more strict of course) in order to prove your eligibility. That is the template you are matching here. The argument presented in the original post is about ID required at voting time - not at registration time. Try to keep up.

How does one work, pay taxes and collect tax return without providing their social, a state issued id? not ID, not state issuedYour just lying now. Yours is a straw man argument, one does not need to be eligible to vote in order to work, one does not need to pre-register before hand to establish your eligibility to work before you apply for a job. They aren't the same thing at all..

You talk about gas lighting when you quote voter outreach programs as a cost to prevent voter id laws and call it a money grab, projection is clearly a familiar act for you. (I also haven’t specifically any specific kind of voter id be used, another projection on your part, you are battling phantoms my foolish friend...)
The 'what kind of ID' that is being talked about is well known as are the problems that 21 million eligible voters have in accessing that kind of ID whether you say it or not.

By law EVERY STATE demands PROOF of Identification and Citizenship and eligibility to vote when you register to vote. This is exactly the process you, and others are attempting to deny exists. The reason that this pre-registration process exists in the first place is to make election day quick and easy. Get the 'hard' stuff out of the way beforehand and then on polling day, sign your name in the poll list and vote.

One last time if you want to play. Is it prohibitive or bias to require these forms of id such as through the I-9? You keep ignoring my question and are asking for personal info from me...
I have fully addressed your question several times even though it is a strawman that has nothing to do with voting.

You are avoiding my question: why do you want to force the American public to spend a billion dollars to try to prevent 3 bad votes (nationwide) per election (maybe 30 nationwide in 20 years out of several billions). At what point does the law of diminishing returns enter your mental computations?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

If, as some on the left assert, it is difficult for minorities to acquire state ID for voting purposes, then making that same ID mandatory for vaccines is an open threat to the lives of minorities. Is it really that hard to figure out?

NO. To get the vaccine they only want to know that you are a resident of the state. You do NOT need to prove citizenship or that you can drive a car, whether or not you have health insurance. You don't need any of that.

Residence can be established by a utility bill with your name and address on it. Sure a driver's license also establishes residency but you don't have to have one for this purpose.

Again, this is a strawman argument. It has nothing to do with voting and the two stage process that entails (pre-registration and polling day voting).

a reply to: Vroomfondel

In regards to photo Id, I question your research skills. This took me less than a minute to find:

I've already discussed those state numbers earlier in the thread. Try to keep up.

AT REGISTRATION: EVERY STATE, 100% of them, require PROOF of citizenship and eligibility to vote.
=> no proof - no registration
=> the Secretary of State (or other officer as mandated by state law) is responsible for ensuring the eligibility has been established

ON ELECTION DAY: EVERY STATE, 100% of them, require PROOF of registration.
=> Some states require an approved photo ID
=> Some states require an ID that does not need to be a photo ID
=> Some states specify that the signature is an attestation subject to penalty of perjury
=> All states require the voter to be listed in the poll book and that the poll book is signed by the voter
=> All states (as far as I know) verify that the signature in the poll book matches the one on the Voter Registration record.
=> All states have 'provisional ballot' provisions for out of the ordinary circumstances.

Social security isn’t a state issued form of id? Do you not understand what the term “state” is? I’ll let you figure this out. So many wrong things in your head...

I’m not calling for billions to be spent and to claim as such is blatantly misrepresenting reality, much like your thought process here, point out exactly where I do what you’ve claimed?

You again haven’t answered my question, but I’m not surprised by your reluctance to do so.

a reply to: rnaa

a reply to: Rob808

Social security isn’t a state issued form of id?

Correct.

First => It is NOT an ID card - it is a registration card and has ZERO identification characteristics. Until 1972 it even said on the card that it is not an identification card. It is proof of registration with the Social Security system and that is all it is. And not everyone is required to register with Social Security.

Your Social Security number is a major key to identify theft. You should NOT be giving it out to anyone other than for strictly controlled taxation purposes. Doctors don't need it. Libraries don't need it. Gyms don't need it.

Your Social Security card IS NOT IDENTIFICATION, but your SSN can unlock your private financial dealings.

5 Places Where You Should Never Give Your Social Security Number

Do you not understand what the term “state” is? I’ll let you figure this out. So many wrong things in your head...

Yes, I do. But you are trying to pretend we are talking about a 'nation state' not a 'member state of the United States in that phrase. Why do the requirements often list: 'U.S. Passport or State Issued ID' - isn't a U.S. Passport issued by a 'state'?

You objection is both frivolous and disingenuous.

a reply to: Rob808

I’m not calling for billions to be spent and to claim as such is blatantly misrepresenting reality, much like your thought process here, point out exactly where I do what you’ve claimed?

Exactly WHAT is the problem you are trying to solve?
Exactly WHAT is the severity of that problem?
Exactly WHAT is your proposal to solve that problem?
Exactly WHAT needs to be done to implement your proposal?
Exactly WHAT side effects might be raised by your proposal?

Spell it out. Don't continue arguing if you are going move the goal posts each time you are shown to be talking about nothing. Pin your self down or go home.

If you aren't calling for a plan that has been demonstrated to cost billions to implement, then what exactly ARE you calling for?

a reply to: rnaa

You are the one using a straw man argument. Yes, states require some form of ID to register to vote. What passes for an ID is the problem. I witnessed firsthand street vendors, commonly referred to as taco trucks, teaching illegals how to vote with nothing more than a photo copy of a utility bill and actively registering them. Not an original utility bill that the person living at the address would receive, it had to be a photocopy. They refused to accept an original utility bill. Why would they do that? Because it limits the number of voters to the person who has the bill in hand. But if you have to use a photocopy of a bill, just make a few hundred copies and share them with as many people as you like. Think about it. Voter registration REFUSED to accept an original utility bill. They would only accept a photocopy. Only one person gets the original but there can be unlimited copies to share. Can you think of one valid reason why the original would not be accepted instead of a copy? I would like to hear it...

Also, you don't have to get a drivers license. There are plenty of state issued photo ID's to go around. The idea that a photo ID is simply too difficult for some people to attain is ludicrous.

You can quote voter registration laws all you want. Unless you can prove they are being followed you may as well pump sunshine up your skirt. Every year dead people register and vote. Illegals register and vote. Some people vote multiple times, even in the same district. We had a system that relied on the honesty and integrity of the voter and poll workers. That may have worked in the past, but no longer. When dems are openly saying win at any cost, by any means necessary, you have to know that honesty and integrity have gone. Failure to admit that is part of the problem.

A social security card does have a code which reflects the state in which it was issued. Social security cards are also one of the primary forms of ID for many government services, not just social security or banking. In the absence of a national identity card the social security card has become the de facto national ID. You can use a social security card as one form of ID to get a passport.

You must have several documents to prove your identity, and one of those is a United States Social Security card. You must provide Social Security number in order to apply for your US passport. If you don't have you Social Security Card, you should order a replacement card for when you apply for your passport.

emphasis added

ssa

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: Rob808

I’m not calling for billions to be spent and to claim as such is blatantly misrepresenting reality, much like your thought process here, point out exactly where I do what you’ve claimed?

Exactly WHAT is the problem you are trying to solve?
Exactly WHAT is the severity of that problem?
Exactly WHAT is your proposal to solve that problem?
Exactly WHAT needs to be done to implement your proposal?
Exactly WHAT side effects might be raised by your proposal?

Spell it out. Don't continue arguing if you are going move the goal posts each time you are shown to be talking about nothing. Pin your self down or go home.

If you aren't calling for a plan that has been demonstrated to cost billions to implement, then what exactly ARE you calling for?

I pointed out a signature was fallible, I don’t need to respond to any call to action on your part. I’ve clearly proved you are emotionally battling here, unable to retain what you are battling is actually saying and living in a world of your own assumptions (I can see your mind turn red). You are angry, and battling phantoms as I’ve already stated to you. You might not see how it’s relevant, but it impacting your judgements and forcing you to act on assumptions.

My contribution to this thread is entirely for my own motivation and you as much as you scream and shout will have no control over that, attempting to do so is pathetic.

I highly suggest you stop pretending partisan propaganda about voter education, which is a very separate subject from the one the OP has outlined, it’s disingenuous of you.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

A social security card does have a code which reflects the state in which it was issued.
No it doesn't.
Once upon a time the leading digits were an indicator of the regional office that processed the SS application - but a regional office often handled multiple states. This was necessary to ensure duplice SSN's were not assigned in the days before national computer networks. The leading digits mean absolutely nothing since at least the 1970's (Barrack Obama's (original) SSN, applied for from Hawaii sometime in the mid 70s, has a leading code that once indicated it was issued from Baltimore Maryland regional office but in fact it was just a number generated by the national computer system.

Social security cards are also one of the primary forms of ID for many government services, not just social security or banking. In the absence of a national identity card the social security card has become the de facto national ID.
It is NOT identification. It is evidence of registration, nothing more. Yes it is the 'key' to government services, but it is NOT ID. Just because I have possession of an SSN card does not mean that it is MY SSN card. In fact I lost my SSN card many years ago, and have no trouble accessing government services with just the number.

It is also the fact that many non-government services have no right to demand your SSN. The University I attended incorrectly used SSN as student ID because it was 'convenient', but if a student (like me for instance) refused to give them their SSN they could not require them to do so. If there is a legitimate reason for asking for the SSN, for instance because the student is working for the University or other Federal government reporting requirements, then they have to have it like any other employer - but not as the student ID. Your employer does not use your SSN as your employee ID either.


You can use a social security card as one form of ID to get a passport.
Actually NO. What you need to get a passport is PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP. Citizenship has nothing to do with Social Security. My wife has a Social Security card and she is NOT a CITIZEN and not every citizen needs to be registered to Social Security to legally work.

Here is the OFFICIAL State Department information - if you study this page, you will notice that the Social Security Number is not mentioned.
U.S. DEPARTMENT of STATE — BUREAU of CONSULAR AFFAIRS - Travel.State.Gov: Citizenship Evidence

a reply to: Vroomfondel

That website you quoted is NOT an U.S. Government website, and the information you quoted is flat out wrong. If you had read on however, the site does say that absent any other PRIMARY form of identification, you will need to supply SEVERAL different forms of secondary identification which may include things like an SS card or a credit card. A credit card is not an ID card either. What it is, is a series of non-identification documents that when taken together add up to a reasonable demonstration of your ID.

I lost my SSN card years before I applied for a passport and had absolutely no trouble.

For correct information about Passport requirements consult the U.S. Government State Department.

It is also true, that the law now requires the State Department to take your SSN (if you have one) for reporting to the Tax office. I'm guessing that the tax office is chasing expats for tax returns and the like.

From the passport application:

Proof of Identity
You may submit items such as the following containing your signature AND a photograph that is a good likeness of you: previous or current U.S. passport book; previous or current U.S. passport card; driver's license (not temporary or learner's license); Certificate of Naturalization; Certificate of Citizenship; military identification; or federal, state, or municipal government employee identification card. Temporary or altered documents are not acceptable.You must establish your identity to the satisfaction of the acceptance agent and Passport Services. We may ask you to provide additional evidence to establish your identity. If you have changed your name, please see travel.state.gov for instructions. IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE OF IDENTITY as stated above, you must appear with an IDENTIFYING WITNESS, who is a U.S.citizen, non-citizen U.S. national, or permanent resident alien that has known you for at least two years. Your witness must prove his or her identity and complete and sign an Affidavit of Identifying Witness (Form DS-71) before the acceptance agent. You must also submit some identification of your own

No mention of a SS card being an acceptable form of ID.

Also from the application form:

Federal Tax Law
Section 6039E of the Internal Revenue Code (26 USC 6039E) and 22 U.S.C. 2714a(f) require you to provide your Social Security number (SSN), ifyou have one, when you apply for or renew a U.S. passport. If you have never been issued a SSN, enter zeros in box #5 of this form. If you are residing abroad, you must also provide the name of the foreign country in which you are residing. The U.S. Department of State must provide your SSN and foreign residence information to the U.S. Department of Treasury. If you fail to provide the information, you are subject to a $500 penalty enforced by the IRS. All questions on this matter should be directed to the nearest IRS office.

Also not being used for ID, its being used to ensure you aren't doing a runner from the IRS.

So far you’ve established in your thought experiment social security prior to 1972 stated it wasn’t id (this text was removed for some unknown reason of little significance clearly). It’s not issued by a state and instead some unnamed mystical entity (ok it’s a state but for this thought experiment you’d prefer to not think of it as such and to think of it as it’s reality is disingenuous (for your thought experiment). It’s good enough to identify you for all of your financial information linking you and your financial actions together, but cannot possibly in any other context identify you. Voter education laws can be used to label any view you don’t see fit as advocating for spending of billions.

As it pertains to the OP, the use of such id for financials is acceptable as it doesn’t put any restrictions on citizens. Particularly notable is the lack of racial restrictions, which is the subject of the OP. With this understanding, id requirements in other context do not default to any form of racial suppression.
a reply to: rnaa

a reply to: rnaa

No it doesn't.
Once upon a time the leading digits were an indicator of the regional office that processed the SS application - but a regional office often handled multiple states. This was necessary to ensure duplice SSN's were not assigned in the days before national computer networks. The leading digits mean absolutely nothing since at least the 1970's (Barrack Obama's (original) SSN, applied for from Hawaii sometime in the mid 70s, has a leading code that once indicated it was issued from Baltimore Maryland regional office but in fact it was just a number generated by the national computer system.

According to the SSA this is nothing but bullsh1t. The whole regional office thing is made up crap.

When the social security program began states were issued multiple area codes (not multiple states per code), the first three numbers of a social security number, based on the expected number of issuances. Prior to 1972 you could request a social security card at any SS office regardless of where you were born or where you lived. The area code would reflect the office that issued the card. After 1972 all social security cards were issued by the Baltimore office but the area code on the number reflected your state residence.

When the Social Security numbering system was developed, one or more area numbers were allocated to each State based on the anticipated number of issuances in the State (table 1). Because an individual could apply for an SSN at any Social Security office, the area code did not necessarily indicate where the person lived or worked. Since 1972, the Social Security Administration has been issuing SSN’s centrally from its headquarters in Baltimore. The area code now indicates the person’s State of residence as shown on the SSN application.

ssa.gov

There are both federal and state agencies that will accept a social security card as one form of ID. Whether they should or not is another story. For example the Illinois DMV. They will accept a social security card as ID for both Group A and Group C documents. Whether a Social Security card is meant to be used as an ID is moot if government agencies are using it anyway.

A social security card is an accepted form of ID to get the new Real ID travel card needed by Oct, 2021. Not only is it accepted to get one, it is mandatory.

What you are quoting and what happens in real life are two different things. You maintain that a social security card is not an ID. Good for you. There are a crap load of government agencies who disagree with you.

dmv

Note Group A and Group C Acceptable Identification Documents. Also, documents marked with * are acceptable for Real ID.

Step 3: All applicants must provide proof of full Social Security number (SSN). (Examples are: an SSN card, a W-2 or a pay stub with full SSN.)

Real ID

You remind me of fb fact checkers. You rant on and on about how election fraud is just conspiracy because there are laws that should prevent it. They make no mention of whether those laws are effective or not, which is the real issue, they just mention that they exist and call it a day.

a reply to: Rob808

It’s not issued by a state and instead some unnamed mystical entity

Correct - it is NOT issued by a state.

False - it is NOT issued by 'some unnamed mystical entity'

It is issued by the Social Security Administration which is an agency of the Federal Government and there is nothing mystical about it.