Travis Walton interviewed on Joe Rogan Experience

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I don't believe that either, for good reason, are admissible in court - so there's that.

Two things. Firstly, as I mentioned in my first response, Mr Walton spends most of his time looking left. I erred on the side that he was looking down and left mostly but as I stated he does also look directly left, hence why I said that he appeared to be drawing that information from auditory memory, something he was told. However, it is possible that where I thought he was looking down, recalling physical or emotion based memories, he was actually mostly still looking straight left because I suspect he has an astygmatism or a lazy-eye or something that means he eyes aren't always symmetrically aligned. Not sure. Not a doctor or an optometrist...or a body-language expert for that matter.

Secondly, having watched the Geraldo interview that mirageman posted, Walton is completely the opposite. Totally eyes right. Some of it is still down suggesting that there is still an emotional element. That emotion could be guilt or shame, it could also be fear. I don't know.

I would perhaps be inclined though, all things considered, to revise my previous position to being that whatever happened, if indeed anything did, that Mr Walton also knows that it wasn't aliens that abducted him and that that can no longer account for the time that he was missing, if indeed he was missing.

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: KilgoreTrout
Maybe so; but I believe its either true or false and not that its some fuzzy or unclear trauma. He seems to have a pretty good recollection by now either by factual assertion or deception.

I agree. One way or another. People lie for all sorts of reasons and knowing that someone is lying isn't the same as knowing why they are lying or indeed, oddly enough,what they are lying about. It's not simply about what they are saying, sometimes the lie is in how it is said - or why, or where. Or of course, to whom and by whom.

a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for pointing that out. I never really looked into the case that deeply. I knew what I heard and his general interviews.

It seems that story and the others have a lot more details than stories he told and spread around. It wasn't the popular story he told. Now I've read other accounts and comparing them, he says different things with those as well. The three creatures look like fetus', they are wearing brown robes, a man appears who is human wearing a helmet like a fishbowl, there's a woman, they have on blue outfits, the man walks him to a planetarium and Walton sits in a high-back chair in the middle of the room, there's a lever and one with push buttons, etc. Even more fantastical than the popular story he's told.

Even if it is intriguing, I still remain highly skeptical of anybody who makes a claim of an alien abduction. As I said earlier, many thousands of claims and we have no evidence of these physical events and interactions and therefore not even a foundation to believe possibly Walton is truthful. You can't come to this case beginning with a belief of visiting aliens and work backwards to disprove. It's easy to lie and everyone has.

Believers have no choice but to accept the only low-leveled "evidence" that has been provided in the decades and argue like we already have real evidence in order to keep this phenomenon alive. It's said that people like myself are just naysayers, don't want to believe, or other nonsensical reasons. I want to believe as much as the next guy. I don't think the implications and meanings of alien life visiting Earth are completely understood by those. It's not only a single barrier that has to be knocked down, many are.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Even if it is intriguing, I still remain highly skeptical of anybody who makes a claim of an alien abduction. As I said earlier, many thousands of claims and we have no evidence of these physical events and interactions and therefore not even a foundation to believe possibly Walton is truthful. You can't come to this case beginning with a belief of visiting aliens and work backwards to disprove. It's easy to lie and everyone has.

Indeed. I've heard all these stories for decades now and not one of them provides any conclusive evidence of the existence of aliens. Walton's is simply one of the more famous cases out there.

What I find intriguing, assuming it was a hoax, is the planning and execution of it. We know the police investigated Walton's disappearance. But once he reappeared days later I assume the police case was closed? Leaving the ufologists to pick up the pieces.

I would have thought the police would investigate a spurious disappearence as a waste of police time; but given the crazieness maye they didn't want to get involved and let it go. Myself, I neither discount nor credit abductions since I don't give the time to look at them. As some have said, their is no verifiable evidence of abductions so I'm not willing to take it on a question of belief.

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: Droogie
.......Having worked on some "non-human" components myself

Whoah!........ let's just back up a bit ......... explain please.

Message for Joe Rogan, get the hell off of Spotify.

You are not hearing from enough people that are disgusted with that web site, which requires them to create an account just to register their complaints. They also refuse to login to trash social media in order to place a comment telling you how much they hate it.

I missed your content so much, yes, I signed up to Spotify . But, since I do not go on regularly and only do so to watch your podcast... they dissolve my password, forcing me into as much as a 15 minute scenario to get back online to watch anything you do. This is happening to anyone in the same scenario.

I for one, now refuse to go back on Spotify.

The ATS community as a whole loves your content, but many .. like myself.. absolutely refuse to go there.

ATS is a quality and respected social site, so I will use this venue to warn you, however these comments are mine, and certainly do not represent anything or any one else but myself.

My warning is that if you do not free yourself from that horrible site, your career will start to tank... thus you will no longer be able to attract the quality of people on there to communicate and bond with, which makes your brand what it is.

I really want you to survive, and I am sure that many of the ATS community feels the same.

a reply to: charlyv

I doubt Rogan is browsing this thread

a reply to: charlyv

You should perhaps try email to Joe Rogan if you feel so strongly about Spoty what not.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Did that. Sure that he got so many like it, he stopped reading them.

Also thought there would be more response since he is quoted a lot on here.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

LOL, Linda was a forerunner. My bet is history will show that, as such. As for Doty, the beat goes on.

a reply to: Crusher
Walton's claim is different. He wasn't taken aboard as some kind of science experiment. He claims he was rendered benevolent first aid after their ship caused him harm. No need for implants. No need for tracking.

BTW, I've seen the implants. They are impressive, if you know what you are looking at and pertaining to the nanomats.

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire
You span the gamut on ATS. I agree : consilio et animus, which is lacking within our Government.

Non-human genetics samples, non-human nano carbon fiber isotopes fashioned into rf and other spectrum energy rectifiers, non-human appendages, specifically, answering your question. I will not say anymore about this. I hope and pray in due time this comes to public light, fostered by more influential people than myself.

Of note, go to Google and reference "alien implant" a few years ago and now. Many reference sources and technical briefs have been wiped;-)

Thats why I say, respectfully, the posters on here don't know what they don't know, unless, they have been involved or are attempting to disinform. I say respectfully, because debunking is extremely important for truth.

a reply to: play4keeps

When we hear of alien implants we assume them to be tiny particles of metal found in the body of some alien abductee experiencers. Are you saying there are much more advanced alien implants, appendages and advanced technologies known of or found. By alien do you actually mean off world.

a reply to: Catch_a_Fire
"By alien do you actually mean off world. (?)"

Yes, and in some cases, no. What I have seen is 100% non-human species, extraterrestrial, but there are some other theories that some of other theories that the species from crash sites are advanced human hybrid/cloning from future homo-sapiens or homo-optimus, as it is called. I have not seen those remains or tissue samples. One group never gets the full
story...

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: Arbitrageur
This is a good post;

Can you give me your opinion on this? Arb, Ecto, others?

www.youtube.com...

Since this thread is about Travis Walton, I didn't want to de-rail the thread with discussion about Jim Sparks. But since it's another claimed abduction case, one might argue that it's at least tangentially on-topic, and this thread has been inactive so discussing Sparks at this point won't derail an active thread. But to make sure this post is still on topic, note the threedollarkit analysis of the Walton case which is rather detailed and quite interesting.

Travis Walton analysis by Charlie Wiser
Charlie Wiser speculates about a fire tower hypothesis, but whether anyone believes that or not, the analysis is pretty interesting besides the fire tower idea.

Anyway, my opinion on the Jim Sparks video. Here are a couple of things he says in the video you linked.

30:15
The aliens radiate an energy that paralyze you

30:50 Jim Sparks
Abductions happened quite often, 2-4 times per month
In the last few years, 2-3 times per year

The comment about paralysis does sound like textbook sleep paralysis which is what scientists think may account for the majority of alien abduction experiences, as explained in this article for example:

Alien Abduction? Science Calls It Sleep Paralysis

The idea is that people generally aren't lying when they say they think they've been abducted, (aside from some exceptional cases such as when it was obvious to Travis Walton's polygraph examiner McCarthy that Travis Walton's story was the plainest case of lying he'd seen in 20 years). The abduction experience can often be the result of sleep paralysis.

In Betty Hill's case, I don't think she was lying like Travis Walton's polygraph examiner McCarthy proclaimed, but this excerpt from the article touches on some aspects of the Hill "abduction":

Still, sleep paralysis cannot be a full explanation because some reports of alien abduction do not involve sleep. Leonard S. Newman, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago who has studied alien abductions, argues that they are false memories -- in some cases triggered by sleep paralysis but at other times by daydreams or fantasies.

''People, especially when they are hypnotized, can easily weave together images, dreams, fantasies and things that they might just have heard or read about into elaborate pseudo-memories that they are confident are real,'' Professor Newman said in an E-mail interview.

Betty had a dream, wrote it down, was later hypnotized and came to believe the dream was true, even though it was obvious to her therapist that her story was essentially the same as the dream she wrote down.

Sparks talks about paralysis initially, I think when he's being abducted 2-4 times a month, which seems a pretty good fit with the sleep paralysis idea. Then one has to wonder why Sparks wouldn't have set up a camera to record his nearly wekly abductions.

Eventually however Sparks says that he had an experience where he was no longer paralyzed, in which case the sleep paralysis hypothesis no longer seems to fit, but after having had so many abduction experiences, maybe he eventually becomes able to "weave together images, dreams, fantasies" as mentioned in the article where the sleep paralysis scenario no longer applies exclusively.

Anyway I don't have any particular reason to doubt that many people genuinely believe that they have had abduction experiences. Maybe Jim Sparks, Betty Hill, and many others really believe they were abducted for any number of reasons (even though they weren't abducted). Travis Walton is the exception where I think he's just lying completely as his polygraph examiner McCarthy stated, and he knows he wasn't abducted, but I suspect he's the exception in knowingly lying about his experience.

Unfortunately, we aren't going to get much scientific research into this area because there aren't really incentives for scientists to get involved and as Susan Clancy found out. There are actually disincentives to doing this research, because people don't want to know the truth. The alleged "abductees" want to believe their experiences are real, and they often get angry if you tell them otherwise even if that's the truth. That's discussed in the following video by the scientist who researched the topic and lived to regret it.

Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens


In summary she says most people believe their own alien abduction claims, but that doesn't mean they happened, and she explains how they come to have beliefs that the experiences were real, even though they were hypnogogic-based experiences.

Clancy applies critical thinking to standards of evidence, where we commonly hear things like "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Here is what she says about that in the video, to lament the lack of objective evidence in alien abduction claims:

41:50
"How do we know the moon is round?"
We don't know that based on what other people tell us, we have objective evidence like photos and eclipse shadows.
...
42:40
"There's a lot of anecdotal reports, a lot of suspicion, rumor, hearsay. But none of that counts as the kind of objective evidence that you would want to support such an exceptional claim (as alien abduction). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Which of course is where we are left in many abduction claims, including Jim Sparks, with no objective evidence that he was actually abducted. As Hitchen's razor says, "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

The greatest moment in TV history is when Travis Walton and Shaun Ryder ate fish and chips together in a chip shop in the UK .

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: Droogie
For the debunkers, skeptics, naysayers, disinformation agents on ATS, Travis Walton was absolutely, 100% correct in his assessment about what took place.

This thread is for the gullible members as even plain, basic but serious research will always return the same verdict: hoax. And it's not up to the debunkers, skeptics, naysayers, disinformation agents to prove it was a hoax, it's up to Walton to prove that it really happened and you can rely on history as he never did. But give credit where it's due, he did get notorious, famous and rich. He proved that lying can be profitable.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: Arbitrageur
This is a good post;

Can you give me your opinion on this? Arb, Ecto, others?

www.youtube.com...

Since this thread is about Travis Walton, I didn't want to de-rail the thread with discussion about Jim Sparks. But since it's another claimed abduction case, one might argue that it's at least tangentially on-topic, and this thread has been inactive so discussing Sparks at this point won't derail an active thread.
snip
The idea is that people generally aren't lying when they say they think they've been abducted, (aside from some exceptional cases such as when it was obvious to Travis Walton's polygraph examiner McCarthy that Travis Walton's story was the plainest case of lying he'd seen in 20 years). The abduction experience can often be the result of sleep paralysis.
snip
"

I don't want to derail the thread either with my personal account of my only episode of sleep paralysis but it might be an interesting read. I became interested in flying saucers in 1958 after I read Adamski's book. Then in the early 1960 it was my only interest reading everything I could lay my hands on and attending lectures almost every week. But I also got interested in all kinds of supernatural topics one of them being sleep paralysis and what people experienced during such episodea. The most famous being:
"The night hag or old hag is the name given to a supernatural creature, commonly associated with the phenomenon of sleep paralysis. It is a phenomenon during which a person feels a presence of a supernatural malevolent being which immobilizes the person as if sitting on their chest or the foot of their bed." Wikipedia

In 1971 I had such an episode and it happened to me as described above with one detail that I've never seen mentioned. Yes, my body was paralyzed but I was conscious, felt the weight on my chest and I tried to call out to my nephew sleeping in a nearby room with our doors open but my vocal chords did not operate and that was frightening. The unmentioned detail is that during the experience I could hear the most hideous loud sound like a million people all yelling at once at the top of their lungs. Anyway, I fell asleep and woke up with just the memory.

Why wasn't I abducted? Simply because I've always been a skeptic and I never accepted as true emerging claims of alien abductions and especially after UFO forums started and the amount of claims shot up exponentially. It was the topic du jour. However, I do keep an open mind when it comes to:
"The Pascagoula Abduction was an alleged UFO sighting and alien abduction in 1973, in which Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker claimed they were abducted by aliens while fishing near Pascagoula, Mississippi." Wikipedia

Travis Walton? The biggest bullcrapper in UFOlogy. "Travis Walton net worth and salary: Travis Walton has a net worth of $7 Million". It's profitable to create a popular hoax.

originally posted by: play4keeps
a reply to: Catch_a_Fire
"By alien do you actually mean off world. (?)"

Yes, and in some cases, no. What I have seen is 100% non-human species, extraterrestrial, but there are some other theories that some of other theories that the species from crash sites are advanced human hybrid/cloning from future homo-sapiens or homo-optimus, as it is called. I have not seen those remains or tissue samples. One group never gets the full
story...

We can always count on some members to add levity. Thanks.