Jack Chick and Freemasonry, are you familiar with him?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Well your post indicates you don't.

The first element is God - he is unseen but present in all things.

The second element is the Point - This represents Man.
Man is at the centre of the universe because he has no other way of knowing any other, all his senses extend from himself so ultimately he appears to himself as the centre of all things regardless of what may be the truth in existence.

The third element is the lower tangent - This represents The Law.
It is created to prevent man from descending past what is acceptable in the physical world and must extend infinitely so that there is no way around it.
It is a constant that must be applied to ALL men governed by that law.

The forth element is the upper tangent - This represents Religion.
Like the lower tangent religion also serves to contain and guide man but in matters of a spiritual nature.
Likewise it is a constant that is applied to ALL men of a given religion.

This leaves a quandary - what of matters that cross both the material and the spiritual world, and what of matters that affect one man and not another?
How can these two devices alone fulfill the moral guidance of a man when there are so many places he might look and not find an answer he feels is acceptable?

The fifth element is the Circle - This represents Freemasonry.
Like Religion and Law, Freemasonry has no visible beginning or end and there is no way it can be circumvented, but as it is centered on the individual it can provide him with the own answers for these questions that would otherwise distress and confuse him.
It creates a finite world in which me can reign as “Master,” a world where he is important and his life has meaning, allowing him to enjoy the comforts of brotherhood without the fear of that which he cannot control.

Mrs.Necros ! ! ! That sounds so . . . so . . . EVIL. I've finally seen the light. Freemasonry teaches THAT???? How horrible!!!! I can't see how ANYONE would believe THAT STUFF! I must resign immediately. Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by MrNECROS
It's a shame you just changed it!
Anyway, I'm talking about the design of a circle with point in the center with 2 parallell lines at a tangent.

I'll give you some clues to start off because it will be better that you learn this yourself.

There are 5 elements represented in this diagramme:
God
Man
Religion
The Law
Freemasonry

Care to guess which entities are represented by which parts?

Necros, you really think I don't know what it means? Here's more than a clue:




The point in the center of the circle represents an individual mason, the circle represents the boundary line of the mason's duty to God and to his fellow man. In otherwords, the circle represents the boundary of my behavior past which I must not err, into temptation, contempt, hatred, etc. etc.The two parallel lines represent St. John the Baptist and St.John the evangelist (although in some places they represent King Solomon and Moses).

The only thing that is missing is the Volume of Sacred Law on top (aka The Bible).


[edit on 19-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

The Point Within a Circle

The Masons of the Blue Lodge are taught that the Point within a Circle represents the individual Mason (the Point), contained and restricted by the boundary line of his duty (the Circle). Its real meaning, however, is that of the phallus, positioned within the female generative principle (sex organ), the climactic act of Sun-god worship. (6)

Dr. Albert Mackey, already quoted herein, also writes in his classic work "Symbolism of Freemasonry," page 352, "Phallus, a representation of the virile member which was venerated as a religious symbol… It was one of the modifications of sun worship, and was a symbol of the fecundating power of that luminary. The Masonic point within a circle is undoubtedly of phallic origin."

Heh - you guys really dig Satanism a heap don't you?
It's funny what rubbish is out there on Google when you query an obscure nick like mine - I have a feeling this crappy Satanic website will be up there for evermore just to taunt me for surfing the net while pissed with a bunch of Freemason "friends".
Anyway, you guys really seem to like it - why you've posted it in just about every forum I posted to - some times more than once.

There's a sort of funny story to that bit of crap poetry, but the destination website never got off the ground due to lack of interest and effort on my behalf.
The guestbook says write something evil - so I did, never figured it would mean so much to you guys after all these years.
Glad it keeps you warm at night knowing you're not the only ones running around biting the heads off of rats...even if you are the only ones...

I am studying the origins and what secret societies are all about. The Freemasonry is one of them. I wanted to become a mason just as my brother in law is and we began to talk about the subject. I wondered why he wasn't grand on the idea because I talk about God alot and am trying to live according to His will. Then I did some research and to make a very long short, NOT THE PEOPLE, WELL NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE in the Freemasonry are blind, they are blind to the fact that they are worshipping evil. Freemasonry has its roots in Witchcract and devil worshipping. One of its main members, Pike, Albert was an open worshipper of satan, and not of God. Most masons might say that he was a man of God, wrong. I will continue my study and shed more light on this subject to educate myself and others. I leave with this quote from Pike in the the book "The Illuminati 666" by Roy Alan Anderson. Pike was the head of another secret society called the Palladists, open satan worshippers. This society was formed to destroy Christianity and replace it with the worship of satan. If readers of this piece have any doubts about Albert Pike and his open worship of Satan, refer to the book "Morals and Dogma" on page 102. The following is stated by Pike." The true name of satab, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh(God) reversed; for satan is not black god , but the negation of God. Th devil is the personification of atheism or idolatry. " I know I will be called a fool and a slanderer, but my research tells me different. The Bible gives specific instructions to refrain ideals and groups who believe in these ideals. I am ready and will come back with more facts. I am not here to make enemies, just express my point of view.

Originally posted by dominic77
I am studying the origins and what secret societies are all about. The Freemasonry is one of them. I wanted to become a mason just as my brother in law is and we began to talk about the subject. I wondered why he wasn't grand on the idea because I talk about God alot and am trying to live according to His will. Then I did some research and to make a very long short, NOT THE PEOPLE, WELL NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE in the Freemasonry are blind, they are blind to the fact that they are worshipping evil. Freemasonry has its roots in Witchcract and devil worshipping. One of its main members, Pike, Albert was an open worshipper of satan, and not of God. Most masons might say that he was a man of God, wrong. I will continue my study and shed more light on this subject to educate myself and others. I leave with this quote from Pike in the the book "The Illuminati 666" by Roy Alan Anderson. Pike was the head of another secret society called the Palladists, open satan worshippers. This society was formed to destroy Christianity and replace it with the worship of satan. If readers of this piece have any doubts about Albert Pike and his open worship of Satan, refer to the book "Morals and Dogma" on page 102. The following is stated by Pike." The true name of satab, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh(God) reversed; for satan is not black god , but the negation of God. Th devil is the personification of atheism or idolatry. " I know I will be called a fool and a slanderer, but my research tells me different. The Bible gives specific instructions to refrain ideals and groups who believe in these ideals. I am ready and will come back with more facts. I am not here to make enemies, just express my point of view.

Well, I don't know about enemies, but you're not making friends by spouting garbage. Everything you stated above has been refuted, disproven, talked about, argued about, etc. etc. Do and ATS search and read some of the links about Albert Pike who was NEVER a "main member" let alone a Satanist. He was, in fact, a devout Trinitarian Christian...and Episcopalian to be exact.

Freemasonry doesn't "worship" anything....it's a fraternity, not a relition.

Been down this road WAY too many times.

Google is your friend. Use it please.




[edit on 19-3-2005 by senrak]

Isn't it amazing how many people think they discovered some 'revelation' about freemasonry based on reading some of the rubbish that is out there on the internet. The problem is... if a lie is regurgitated enough times, and appears on enough websites, it starts to have the veneer of truth about it on the basis that so many sites can't be wrong.

Well they can. Many are based on the Taxil hoax and the widespread myth that Pike was a Satanist. None are prepared to look any further into freemasonry - why should they? Why kill the story by revealing the mundane truth?

Even the moderators must be starting to see the repetition

Beautifull yet treacherous cartoons by Chicks, has that Der Sturmer touch

... I don't know about that microscopic blue point in the circle be of phallic origin, but me, being an old satyr, would have advised Hermes to use a big purple one.



[edit on 19-3-2005 by Silenus]

Reverse symbolism.

Double talk.

You Masons need to get a clue. The two interpretations provided for the point in the circle were spot on. In fact, to come up with the same conclusions (IE. that Masonry takes the place of the 'womb' in the symbolism conveyed above).

Listen close now, mason. Ma, son. Free ma, son. Free from Woman, Son?
I always knew you guys liked your male bonding, just carrying over some Greek traditions I s'pose?

Originally posted by akilles
Reverse symbolism.

Double talk.

You Masons need to get a clue. The two interpretations provided for the point in the circle were spot on. In fact, to come up with the same conclusions (IE. that Masonry takes the place of the 'womb' in the symbolism conveyed above).

Listen close now, mason. Ma, son. Free ma, son. Free from Woman, Son?
I always knew you guys liked your male bonding, just carrying over some Greek traditions I s'pose?

[ahem]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a pitiful, miserable life you must live. You and Mrs Necros should get together and adopt Green-boy, then invite NO-vus over and have a party. You'd get along great, basking in all that ignorance....

Get a friggin life man. Geezz

Mr. Trinityman, just as you believe that your opinions are valid, well, so do I. I have many articles and enough information to state my opinion that Pike was a Satanist. Now, Serak says that this issue has been discussed, argued, and debated for awhile now. I must not be the only person who has become aware of the what the Freemasonry is. Whethe or not it is a religion or fraternity, your roots are pagan and you promote self and that is not what God is about. God is about us living our lives and realizing our potential through His glory, not ours. Our intelligence is foolishness to HIM. If you are so in tuned with your beliefs, there is no way that you will ever believe what the Masonry is invloved in. OPEN YOUR EYES, FREE YOUR MIND.

Originally posted by dominic77
Mr. Trinityman, just as you believe that your opinions are valid, well, so do I. I have many articles and enough information to state my opinion that Pike was a Satanist. Now, Serak says that this issue has been discussed, argued, and debated for awhile now. I must not be the only person who has become aware of the what the Freemasonry is. Whethe or not it is a religion or fraternity, your roots are pagan and you promote self and that is not what God is about. God is about us living our lives and realizing our potential through His glory, not ours. Our intelligence is foolishness to HIM. If you are so in tuned with your beliefs, there is no way that you will ever believe what the Masonry is invloved in. OPEN YOUR EYES, FREE YOUR MIND.

Brother, Senrak isn't the only person around not willing to waste his time on your rambling. I will not bother discussing your garbnage either because it has indeed been claimed, then refuted, then again, and again refuted time and time again. The only problem is YOU guys refuse to look at our evidence. We post links, quote books and give page numbers, and all of our posts have always been consistent, even where there are 10 or more of us arguing on a subject.

Nice try, but nothing you said will hold up to scrutiny on this forum, so take our example and don't waste your time.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by sebatwerk]

Well, what about the facts that have been presented to you masons all of these years. Men, in our vain worship of ourselves and other entities have been blinded to the truth. Time will tell the truth. That's people as myself should continue to strive for the truth. Why does your society have to be secret if it is so pure? Of course you are going to speak up for your cause. I am reading the positives and negatives of the Freemansonry. That is waht a true researcher does. I don't just look at the negativity of a subject. I am a Christian an wish to follow the teachings of Yah. But, when I study something and sees that it contradicts what God is trying to reveal to us, I will take issue with it. The truth does hurt, but I am not here to judge, just state my opinions.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Even the moderators must be starting to see the repetition

You know it. :bnghd:

On another note, this is a new member and if you would care to enlighten him as opposed to ignoring his points, it may go a long way. I think some are starting to see trolls where there aren't any. At least provide links for him to get his info.

You can't teach a person who does not want to learn. My thoughs exactly. Truth is new member or not, this debate can go on for a long time. I can find facts and present them and you can do like wise. I will state my opinions even if you are oblvious. I am on a fact finding mission about the Freemasonry and will have some revelations that I can share with you.

Originally posted by dominic77
Well, what about the facts that have been presented to you masons all of these years.

What facts are you speaking of? The only people that I have ever seen post any VERIFIABLE facts on this forum is those that are pro-masonry.

Why does your society have to be secret if it is so pure?

In the past, it had to be secret to avoid persecution and keep out importors, which there were many of. Now, the only secrets we have are:

1. Our modes of recognition, such as handshakes and passwords
2. Our rituals. What the rituals teach is no secret (truth, justice, fortitude, beauty, etc. etc.), but HOW they teach it is. It is a trade secret, if you will.

In either case, ALL of the secrets above can be found in THOUSANDS of books and dozens of websites. Is it really a secret, just because WE are not allowed to talk about them?

I am reading the positives and negatives of the Freemansonry. That is waht a true researcher does. I don't just look at the negativity of a subject.

Right, but we've always been very candid about the negative sides of our fraternity. But the things the anti's on this forum post are not only outrageous, but they're OFFENSIVE. And yet, these guys speak of it like it's the truth... as if they would know more about the fraternity than it's own members (it's own HIGH-RANKING members, I might add, just to avoid the possible argument).

For every piece of legitimate masonic info on the web, there is 10 pieces of fraudulent and faulty misconceptions. We masons are at a slight disadvantage, to say the least, of ever getting a fair trial if people keep refusing to look at the evidence we present day after day.

I've made HUNDREDS of requests for anti-masons to provide conclusive evidence of their claims, yet they have NEVER, IN ANY INSTANCE, done so. I suggest YOU, in your search for the truth, look solely at facts that can be verified by evidence, not opinions, guesses and circumstance, to make your own decision.

Originally posted by dominic77
God is about us living our lives and realizing our potential through His glory, not ours.

Fascinating. Masonry teaches that VERY same thing to those who understand it.

...must be evil, huh?

Open YOUR mind.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by senrak]

You're not allowed to talk about the teachings.

Then when someone else reads them, you say, NO THATS THE WRONG INTERPRETATION, and its not even the real ritual, how would you know?

You can't even discuss it among yourselves outside the lodge, it seems.

So when someone makes their own interpretation (as Freemasonry encourages ONLY members to do), then all hell breaks loose as the person is labelled an 'accuser', and 'anti-Mason', etc.

So why can't this landmark of Freemasonry change, so as to allow philosophical discussion with non-members?
Or would it POLLUTE the degrees?

Originally posted by akilles
You're not allowed to talk about the teachings.

Says WHO? The teachings have been talked about, written about, printed about, etc. etc. for YEARS. Have you any idea how MANY Masonic books have been written by Masons, discussing the TEACHINGS of Freemasonry?

Then when someone else reads them, you say, NO THATS THE WRONG INTERPRETATION, and its not even the real ritual, how would you know?

I never said that. The teachings of Mrs. Necros' Monitor (not a ritual) are true. The ceremony reflected in her book isn't current. How do I know? I've got copies of the real thing...the CURRENT one. And when a new revision is made in a few years I'll have a copy of that too.

You can't even discuss it among yourselves outside the lodge, it seems.

Seems to me you've not been listening. We've been OPENLY DISCUSSING it right here, we darn-sure talk about it outside Lodge, amongst ourselves and even amongst trolls like yourself.

So when someone makes their own interpretation (as Freemasonry encourages ONLY members to do),

No...only when someone makes a blatantly WRONG interpretation....

then all hell breaks loose as the person is labelled an 'accuser', and 'anti-Mason', etc.

Not when they're seeking real answers. Only when they're trouble makers and trolls.

So why can't this landmark of Freemasonry change, so as to allow philosophical discussion with non-members?

We've ALWAYS allowed philosophical discussion of the degrees and teachings of Freemasonry. We just refuse to sit quietly by and be lied about by people like you, Mrs Necros and some of the other non-thinking people in this world.

Or would it POLLUTE the degrees?

The only thing POLLUTING anything is the garbage being spread about Freemasonry.

Dominic, you might want to reach down and grab your boxers for this.
Not only does Christianity have Pagan roots, it isn't even original.

If you are going to debate with me, give me some facts to go and research. Christianity is a man made concept true. Anyone who chooses to follow Christ are just followers of Christ. Christianity was never about pagan beliefs or rituals. God hates these things. Through Moses, God gave to The Ten Commandments. The First Commandment reads, Thou Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me. This means pagan gods such as a golden calf, pharoas god of darkness, your car, your money, your house, your wife, thor, zues, hermes, etc... In the beginning was God and His word and HE places His word above His name. Now, what is pagan about that? How can Christianity have pagan roots when God has been the only God, the only true and living God from the very beginning? Now, down the line people may have taken God's teachings and perversed them. Take the Catholic Religion, they worship Mary, who is just human and was used as a vessel for God's purpose and exalt her just as they would do Jesus. God could have chosen any woman to do this, but there is only one true Jesus. There are many people and religions that say they follow Christ, but the true people of God have no dealings with paganism. PEACE