Here We go Covid Lockdown #2

a reply to: andy06shake

We had piles in the streets during the Spanish Flu.

My point is that something like that would make the measures they are talking about necessary. But something that has a 99%+ survival rate doesn't do that. COVID has a 99%+ survival rate. It doesn't leave bodies in the streets. If it did, we'd be seeing them already, and we're not.

a reply to: ketsuko


I provided some links with some useful information. If that information seems unreasonable or inadequate? I know that you have the ability to go out onto the internet and find what you're looking for

They aren't keeping you in the dark. I honestly believe that most people prefer to keep themselves in the dark

As to no bodies being in the streets? I'm not sure if you think that's amusing somehow, but how about this:

Meanwhile, workers continue to encounter patients who claim that the Covid-19 crisis is driven by politics. "The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real," tweeted Jodi Doering, identified as an emergency nurse in South Dakota. "These people really think this isn’t going to happen to them."

Health workers have described heart-rending conditions as they face growing shortfalls of supplies and staff, and some doctors and nurses are calling it quits under the stress of the pandemic, NYT's Reed Abelson reports. Widespread access to vaccines and treatments like monoclonal antibodies remain months away.

I'm happy to hear that you're safe and unaffected where you are. I wish us all the best of luck

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

They aren't keeping you in the dark. I honestly believe that most people prefer to keep themselves in the dark

I've been regularly looking at other countries and their Covid situations.
Sometimes we become so US centric that we forget this virus has no discrimination.

I've seen countries handle it very well, and some are doing a terrible job. Some countries are experimenting (cough Sweden) and people want to just use early information and not up to date info.

I think the US is doing a poor job, which makes me sad and angry.
I also believe there is a middle ground, it doesn't have to be everyone locked up or everyone free for all.
Unfortunately something as simple stupid as a mask is has become such a point of contention. If not, the mask, how many people will even stay 6 feet away!???!!!

a reply to: JAGStorm

I also believe there is a middle ground, it doesn't have to be everyone locked up or everyone free for all.

Absolutely - but we would all have to be on the same page

Unfortunately something as simple stupid as a mask is has become such a point of contention. If not, the mask, how many people will even stay 6 feet away!???!!!

at this point what can we even say?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Absolutely - but we would all have to be on the same page

I'm truly wondering if this is impossible in the US...

a reply to: ketsuko

I suppose it depends on the streets but i can believe it.

It does kill them if they are old people or others that tick the correct pre-existing medical condition boxes.

50,000+ dead testify to that fact.

We are not seeing bodies on the streets or at least morgues full because we are endeavoring to attempt to keep the R rate under control via proper use of PPE and lockdown measures in place.

If we were not doing what needs to be done it might be a whole nother kettle of fish.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

You have the freedom to dismiss science, but not the freedom to dismiss it for everyone. You also have a tendency to keep the fear alive with your own propaganda

I'd like to be able to say that rationality is a human trait - but I'm switching that out for rationality is a human option

Why does the left throw "science" around like a weapon when it is only politically convenient for them to use it or ignore it as they see fit... No real logical thought in it when the left uses it or ignores it...lol

Meanwhile ... the one who are getting us into this new round? At least in this area?

More than 50% of the new cases are people in their 20s and 30s. So it ain't us cranky ol' conservative folks getting into trouble. It's the hip young progressives who are too cool for school.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Why does the left throw "science" around like a weapon when it is only politically convenient for them to use it or ignore it as they see fit... No real logical thought in it when the left uses it or ignores it...lol

The left is your mortal enemy. It uses science as a weapon because - clearly - it's something you will not understand

Examples of ignoring science please

But - only if you can provide real world examples of actual science being ignored

originally posted by: ketsuko
Meanwhile ... the one who are getting us into this new round? At least in this area?

More than 50% of the new cases are people in their 20s and 30s. So it ain't us cranky ol' conservative folks getting into trouble. It's the hip young progressives who are too cool for school.

Meanwhile... I'm 60, I wear my mask everywhere, social distance, been working from home since 18 March, don't go anywhere that is not needed etc etc, and the right do not want to follow science....lol

I loved the video of Chicago's mayor screaming into a bull horn, no mask...to a tightly packed huge crowd of people that the vast majority not wearing masks cheering on Biden...lol Then she now is locking down the city again because of a spread...GIVE ME A BREAK!

a reply to: Xtrozero

Gavin Newsome caught out a huge party of people no social distancing, no masks, but he has his state locked up tighter than Alcatraz ...

But it's our fault this thing is spreading. I'm like you ... I don't like it, but I play along. I don't think it does much good, but I play along because I want to go out and exercise and those are the rules for the time being. I don't want to get my instructor in trouble because I don't want to wear a mask personally.

If they tell me I have to wear one at aerobics, I'll have to decide if I can keep up with it or if my asthma will be too much for the cardio with a mask on. I might have to ask if I can have a partial credit toward a new set of classes when the ordinance is dropped again.

But my favorites are all the fine people here who assume that because I argue it's no good to take these measures that it will spread anyhow ... that I'm somehow walking around spitting in people's faces and have personally cause half the deaths in my area.

Meanwhile, our mayor will be announcing new restriction in about 10 minutes or so. Rumors on the radio this morning are that he will be imposing a 10pm curfew because so many of the cases are in young people who likely got it from hanging out at bars.

Not even military compliance stops it.

Last week, researchers for the Naval Medical Research Center in Maryland and Mount Sinai Hospital in New York published a study in the New England Journal of Medicine showing how mask-wearing and social isolation failed to stop the spread among U.S. Marine Corps recruits at Parris Island. The over 3,000 participants were divided into two study groups, and those who tested positive up front were removed from the group on day 1. By day 14, spread was actually greater among those in the supervised quarantine group (2.8%) than in the control group (1.7%).

What was the protocol for those in the quarantine group?

All recruits wore double-layered cloth masks at all times indoors and outdoors, except when sleeping or eating; practiced social distancing of at least 6 feet; were not allowed to leave campus; did not have access to personal electronics and other items that might contribute to surface transmission; and routinely washed their hands. They slept in double-occupancy rooms with sinks, ate in shared dining facilities, and used shared bathrooms. All recruits cleaned their rooms daily, sanitized bathrooms after each use with bleach wipes, and ate preplated meals in a dining hall that was cleaned with bleach after each platoon had eaten. Most instruction and exercises were conducted outdoors. All movement of recruits was supervised, and unidirectional flow was implemented, with designated building entry and exit points to minimize contact among persons. All recruits, regardless of participation in the study, underwent daily temperature and symptom screening. Six instructors who were assigned to each platoon worked in 8-hour shifts and enforced the quarantine measures.

The quarantine group did everything they've been telling us and did it with military control and precision ... and they experienced greater spread.

The good news is that 90% of the cases from that group were asymptomatic.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

The left is your mortal enemy. It uses science as a weapon because - clearly - it's something you will not understand

But - only if you can provide real world examples of actual science being ignored

I can go on for days...To start, how do you show science that has consistently flipped back and forth. Mask is not useful, everyone needs to wear, No need to shut down enjoy your big cities, everyone shut down hard now.. Keep schools closed...where is the science there? lol

There is science and then there is virtue signaling and the left does a lot more virtue signaling than anything science. BTW how does three countries in EU have about a 5% mask wearing percentage to our 75%+ but are 2 to 4 times less infection rate per 100,000 then us?

We can see that science shows wearing a mask is more effective than not, but 95% of masks being worn are not good, and everyone has not had PPE training...So you wear you crappy cloth mask and then you touch your face like 100x more than if you were not wearing your mask is that good? Is the mask better in that case?

If Masks work then why are they not working....lol

FFS!

Yes, KC has passed down the new restrictions, and for some reason, 10 is the new magic number. The virus now knows that if we don't ever see more than 10 people in our lives, it will pass us by.

The Power of 10

“We do believe that reducing the size of all groups to 10 will be something that makes a strong difference,” Lucas said.

a reply to: ketsuko

If you want to believe a military study I have a bridge to sell you.

Just look up Agent Orange, PTSD, chemical poisoning, I could go on ALL day.

Ps. Why do you think recruits have Drill instructors? Think about that........

a reply to: JAGStorm

To insure rigid compliance. I suppose you didn't read that bit?

a reply to: Xtrozero

BTW how does three countries in EU have about a 5% mask wearing percentage to our 75%+ but are 2 to 4 times less infection rate per 100,000 then us?

I don't know. What's your explanation? Do you have a link?

Is the mask better in that case?

It is once you understand it's airborne. The fact that it reduces the risk is important. Had we known that earlier we could have gone that route earlier. Your confusion doesn't demonstrate that anyone was ignoring science - except for maybe the White House

A simple timeline proves that people were responding to the situation as it was happening based on what knowledge they had at the time. Also, what they were allowed to say in public as opposed to what they wanted to say

You clearly think that liberals have committed some kind of crime with all this, and have deliberately set out to wreck our economy and force people to obey draconian laws against their will - using science as a weapon. Never mind that a tanking economy hurts everyone, and that death also touches everyone

I have to be honest - there really isn't anything left to argue about here. People are going to do what they want. Looking around the world objectively - it's hard to miss the sore thumb that we've become. But - we all see what we want to see

originally posted by: ketsuko
FFS!

Yes, KC has passed down the new restrictions, and for some reason, 10 is the new magic number. The virus now knows that if we don't ever see more than 10 people in our lives, it will pass us by.

The Power of 10

“We do believe that reducing the size of all groups to 10 will be something that makes a strong difference,” Lucas said.

Violations are reported via email and they give an email address. ([email protected]) Ya, that's not going to go off the rails with the trolls.. LOL

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

I don't know. What's your explanation? Do you have a link?

Denmark, Sweden, Norway and a good number of other countries are around 5% mask wearing but they are 2 to 4 times less infection rate per 100,000. I think it is because Masks is not the key point in preventing spread where self isolation and social distancing is. There are a bunch of other factors too, but we really do not see any benefits from masks other than someone saying IF we didn't use them the spread/deaths would be so much more, and there just isn't any supporting data for that.

Per 100,000

It is once you understand it's airborne. The fact that it reduces the risk is important. Had we known that earlier we could have gone that route earlier. Your confusion doesn't demonstrate that anyone was ignoring science - except for maybe the White House

But does it reduce the risk, that is my question. Touching your face many times because you have a mask on is not good, wearing non-compliant masks are just a little better, a little... Do they give people false hope that they are now protected so they go out more risking spread? I'm not really fighting masks I'm just saying there is a lot more vulture signaling with them then the reality of how much they help in the end.

A simple timeline proves that people were responding to the situation as it was happening based on what knowledge they had at the time. Also, what they were allowed to say in public as opposed to what they wanted to say

You clearly think that liberals have committed some kind of crime with all this, and have deliberately set out to wreck our economy and force people to obey draconian laws against their will - using science as a weapon. Never mind that a tanking economy hurts everyone, and that death also touches everyone.

You say this above but then say Trump failed to act quickly enough...which is it? I didn't say they committed crime... I think they made big mistakes in some states that didn't need to happen, I also think the left has used this pandemic politically against Trump such as holding up stimulus funds in the House. Lock downs were to flatten the curve only...remember that...14 days...then we locked down for many months on end to save grandma and Trump and the right want to kill grandma...100% vulture signaling... In the draconian liberal cities with huge lock downs how much better are they over the conservatives cities with a lot less lock down? Not much and in many cases they are still worst. Why would the left want to kill the economy...maybe Trump? Trump has said many times we can't have the cure worst than the disease...and he is 100% right, and I truly think the left doesn't care if the cure kills us along the way.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

I don't know. What's your explanation? Do you have a link?

Denmark, Sweden, Norway and a good number of other countries are around 5% mask wearing but they are 2 to 4 times less infection rate per 100,000. I think it is because Masks is not the key point in preventing spread where self isolation and social distancing is. There are a bunch of other factors too, but we really do not see any benefits from masks other than someone saying IF we didn't use them the spread/deaths would be so much more, and there just isn't any supporting data for that.

Per 100,000

It is once you understand it's airborne. The fact that it reduces the risk is important. Had we known that earlier we could have gone that route earlier. Your confusion doesn't demonstrate that anyone was ignoring science - except for maybe the White House

But does it reduce the risk, that is my question. Touching your face many times because you have a mask on is not good, wearing non-compliant masks are just a little better, a little... Do they give people false hope that they are now protected so they go out more risking spread? I'm not really fighting masks I'm just saying there is a lot more vulture signaling with them then the reality of how much they help in the end.

A simple timeline proves that people were responding to the situation as it was happening based on what knowledge they had at the time. Also, what they were allowed to say in public as opposed to what they wanted to say

You clearly think that liberals have committed some kind of crime with all this, and have deliberately set out to wreck our economy and force people to obey draconian laws against their will - using science as a weapon. Never mind that a tanking economy hurts everyone, and that death also touches everyone.

You say this above but then say Trump failed to act quickly enough...which is it? I didn't say they committed crime... I think they made big mistakes in some states that didn't need to happen, I also think the left has used this pandemic politically against Trump such as holding up stimulus funds in the House. Lock downs were to flatten the curve only...remember that...14 days...then we locked down for many months on end to save grandma and Trump and the right want to kill grandma...100% vulture signaling... In the draconian liberal cities with huge lock downs how much better are they over the conservatives cities with a lot less lock down? Not much and in many cases they are still worst. Why would the left want to kill the economy...maybe Trump? Trump has said many times we can't have the cure worst than the disease...and he is 100% right, and I truly think the left doesn't care if the cure kills us along the way.

You might want to refresh yourself on Sweden, not going as good as they hoped, going quite sideways at the moment!