Well I guess when I'm spoken of I'm entitled to reply.

One, I'm not with "Blind rage".

It's called "Knowledge" I have a considerable amount more than the man that came up with that list...and in this matter more than you as well.

As far as you have shown anyways.

You'll admit Clinton has issues?

How about admitting the following.

1) Clinton sold most dockyards on the west coast to China, that they may use them to repair their ships.

2) Clinton sold ICBM technology to China under the guise it was for satellite launching, which the Chinese did use for that but also now have world wide nuke strike capability.

3) Clinton was informed by the CIA that N. Korea was using the low-weapons grade Uranium being shipped to them for nuclear power, for making Nuclear weapons. Clinton continued to ship them low-weapons grade Uranium for the rest of his term.

4) Clinton wrote the Executive Order 13083: Which lays out the claim that "States have the right to handle their own affairs as is written in the Constitution, except for when the Federal Government says it can't."

This is the man you "praise".

Which is what leads to my frustration.

It is like a teacher watching his student bore his brain out in class to see if he can gain the "Ultimate-high".

Furthermore we wont' agree to disagree, I'll just ignore your mindless arguments.

Yes you've disproven things like Monicagate and travelgate and crap like that...but you fail to even recognize the treasonous things mentioned above.

And I think we'd sooner be on opposite sides of Civil War, than both being "Passionate about this country."

Only you'll find yourself fighting unkowingly for Communism.

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by FreeMason]

The fact is, Bush is president now, not Clinton.
Because of that fact, conservatives can quit the "but Clinton did [whatever]" rhetoric. Regardless of what Clinton did 6 years ago, Bush is president now and that's what matters. The former president's misdoings don't excuse the current president from criticism.

Also, why is it that when anyone posts something that can be seen as implying America (or conservatives) did something wrong, they are immediately jumped on by big-eye avatar guy, religious soldier-holding-dog avatar guy, and a bunch of less-articulate flag-waving zombi..I mean patriots?

Ahh...what am I saying? Of course the US can't do anything wrong these days...we were attacked by terrorists you know! Anyone who says otherwise is a Frenchy, liberal, commie, peace-loving, anti-American!! Luv' it or leave it! Yeehaw, bring it on! Ye ter-ah lovin', nukular weapon hatin', non Bible thumpin', democrat votin', Saddam supporters! Yeehaaww!!! *fires guns in the air*

Wow flinx, why is it when I try and possibly finally did manage to steer this topic into an Argument of facts concerning Clinton's Crimes against America.

You have to drag that turd in here?

I don't mean to insult I know it sounds like that, but all your post is, is inflamatory and insulting towards anyone here. Including me who is not trying to defend Bush (not in this thread) but is trying to show how Clinton is a dirtbag.

I apologize for getting the topic off track, but I've been holding back for months when it comes to political stuff on this board and I had to let go. Heck, I don't see how it matters anyway, this is just going to end up being a argument between conservatives and liberals just like 80 percent of the other posts on ATS. No matter how much you argue back and forth no one's going to change their minds or recant their positions. So in a sense this thread and 80 percent of the threads on this board are pointless....

Goodnight.

there is no talking to you.Its like talking to a brick wall.You claim to have knowledge, but I have yet to see that. All I hear is opinion.Just like you think I'm full of it, I feel the same with you.Ditto spew.Clinton's popularity & his accomplishments should speak for themsleves & I am thankful that the majority doesn't think like you do.

Can you disclaim any of the accomplishments on the topic I began re:Clinton? I can provide many more links to other sites stating the things he did including the white house's web site & archives(which I doubt you would even believe)Every President has done something good.The fact that you refuse to admit that only proves your rage & hate against the man.Your actually pretty sad & bitter Freemason.Hate is all you know & anyone who disagrees with you are dumb or mis-informed.They're not all powerful & knowledgeable like you. GIMMIE A BREAK!

"First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

No LBJ did this too you know....have you heard of a little thing called Vietnam? South Korea was effectually occupied. Germany a sovereign nation...was occupied. I'm sick of this crud where are there FACTS that MATTER?"

We were involved in the Vietnamese conflict because we had a defense agreement with the government of South Vietnam. We did not invade and occupy. Again with South Korea, it was invaded by North Korea and we came to their aid, not as an invading army, and stayed there after the armistice to prevent further hostility.

Germany was a conquered nation that brought about world wide war. It was conquered by allied forces, and after conquest, was occupied by the allies for reasons that are historically evident.

This is still beside the point of the politically motivated accusation that we invaded, conquored and have now occupied an innocent nation, which was apparent to the world as not true. Funny that the democrats were calling for the demise of the Husseini regime in the 90's whenever Clinton launched cruise missiles which were effective at only wasting money and further setting the resolve of Hussein.

Not to piss you off but...

(I'm yelling at the top of my frickin lungs)

READ THE Gosh Darned PAITRIOT ACT!!!

And you complain about Clinton changing the constitution.lol

And by the way...Clinton inheirated a bad economy from Bush Sr. turned it around and made us all rich, both Rep's and Dem's

End of story!

Stupidity edited to read "Gosh Darned" as the poster is too mentally weak not to use profanity.

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

your grasping for ANYTHING now.You can do better than that!Man, you people are something!I am noi fan of Bush, but I could never go on the way you people do.You just NEED to hate.,You just need to find something regardless of proof.I suppose thats all you have.How disappointed you must be that Clinton isn't the man you paint him out to be & you can't even prove it!

energy you have to be pretty gullable to think the Patriot Act can seriously apply, if anything in it conflicts with the Constitution it will be surfaced when the Patriot Act is attempted to be Enforced, in which case the Supreme Court can then destroy the "Act".

romantico stop beating around the bush like a monkey and address these properly and timely.

1) Clinton sold most dockyards on the west coast to China, that they may use them to repair their ships.

2) Clinton sold ICBM technology to China under the guise it was for satellite launching, which the Chinese did use for that but also now have world wide nuke strike capability.

3) Clinton was informed by the CIA that N. Korea was using the low-weapons grade Uranium being shipped to them for nuclear power, for making Nuclear weapons. Clinton continued to ship them low-weapons grade Uranium for the rest of his term.

4) Clinton wrote the Executive Order 13083: Which lays out the claim that "States have the right to handle their own affairs as is written in the Constitution, except for when the Federal Government says it can't."

Romantico, if you are nothing you are a follower of the democratic strategy playbook. Project upon your opponent your own sins, and hate is yours. No, you are certainly no fan of Bush's, anyone can see that so speaking the obvious is unnecessary.

Energy Wave, I am aware of the fact that the economy was on a downturn when Clinton took office. Not a "failing" economy, but was cycling down. That has what to do with what? Exactly what did Clinton do that made it better?

AS far as the Patriot Act, you might want to do a little research and see who's baby this really is. You may be surprised. I'm not. I'm aware of how Clinton weakened the constitution and the national sovereignty through E.O.'s. But you do a little research and find out for yourself.

Than I guess your a follower of the Republican party. I love how there seems to be 2 different sets of rules depending on your party. WHat gets me is Freemason's blind rage.I feel anyone coming here reading these posts will absorb information & come to their own conclusions.This may require some research, but most people are intelligent enough to make up their own minds & don't need ditton heads to help them along.

There are 2 sides to every story.But not for Freemason.Theres his side & the 2nd side are people who are mis-informed & dumb.Example,I list a long list of Clinton's accomplishments that are taken from the National Archives & the White Houses own website.Freemason will discredit these sites as being boased & liberal,but the same sites that point out Reagans & Bush sr.'s accomplishments,well then they're 100% fact!

FM ignores any good that Clinton has done because it interferes w/his blind rage & hate for the man.He's not one bit rational.Most reich wingers feel the louder you are the more right you are(Rush Limbaugh,Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity,etc)The longer your post/more time you spend='s your more credible/correct. I'm waiting for FM to have a hissy fit & start screaming "SHUT UP,SHUT UP,SHUT UP!!!" like O'Reilly did w/his breakdown on national tv.Reich wingers don't like it when you disagree with them or present fact.FM keeps asking me to debate his claims.

I can't FM.Why?because you'll only shoot them down no matter how credible my sources may be.You disect Clinton's accomplishments & explain how they aren't true then maybe I'll play your game of footsies.Reichwinger/Clinton haters ususally are wrong in their claims.They also ususally shoot their mouths off which later gets them in trouble,kinda like Michale Savage(Weren't you banned FM once from here because someone disagreed w/your views on religion?)Could be wrong,but I thought it was you.

All you & Thomas have are the same rumors,heresay, & gossip the Clinton haters have been ditto spewing for years.The FACT there is not credibility to these claims doesn't matter.You keep hoping if you drill at them long enough someone may be eventaully believe them.The ditto heads no longer bring up troopergate.Why?Because the author of the article,David Brock admitted he was paid off by a certain right wing millionare to write lies about the Clinton's.Brock later appologized & wrote a book, "Blinded by the Right".One of the troopers admitted he lied & was mad that Clinton didn't offer him a job & there was another trooper that lied & admitted this in writting.Yet these FACTS are ignored & the other lies are reported non-stop.

I'm no fan of Reagan or Bush, but I must admit they did some good.Anyone who can't admit Clinton did SOME good is an ignorant, mis-informed, bitter,foolish,sourpuss of a person who's not living in reality.The man was elected not once but twice, his approval ratings were high during what monicagate,he strengthened the economy yet your most devout Clinton hater will ignore the obvious so they can be right.They cater the facts to their advantage just to bring him down.

FM, I don't care what your background is.No need to rant off your resume.You sound somewhat insecure,as if having all these qualifications make you a little smarter than the rest here ATS.You ignore data from the National archives & the White House's own web site,yet you find Drudgereport,Newsmax,& Worldnetdaily to be credible sources of information & news & you have the nerve to say I'm mis-informed!

CLinton is the most in demand public speaker & the highest paid President who has spoken(however,Reagan spoke for 1 million dollars in Japan shortly after he left office)I doubt Bush will get the money Clinton got to write his memoirs & I doubt it will sell as well. Unlike Bush, Clinton knows what typical Americans go through & this is why he was so embraced by many in this country.

Clinton wsn't born into money.He actually had to study hard,make good grades, & work to get to where he is.He didn't use his fathers money,influence or name to get to where he is.Clinton has a brain.The man can speak at great lenghts on just about any topic.He often use to through away his index cards when giving a speech & speak from the heart.Bush can't even read a teleprompter.He can't even listen to the ear bug he has when someone asks him a question.This is what happens when you have someone pull strings to get you into school vs.someone working for it & learning.I doubt many know how difficult it is to become a RHodes Scholar.Only a select few are chosen per year.Clinton knows about struggle.He was raised by a single mother & they didn't have much money.Bush will never know what its like to worry about wheather or not his Health insurance will pay for his Prescription.Or how he's gonna pay next months mortgage or make that car payment.Clinton can relate & the right wingers hate him for that.He is the perfect example of the American success story.Many even said Bill Clinton ws the 1st Black President because he reached out to minorities & reminded them that WE ARE CREATED EQUAL!

You speak of his sneaky personna with hsi "What is your definition of 'is'is?" Well, Ken Starr was a lawyer who kept asking him the same questions for hours during his grand jury testimony.They kept trying to trick him & re-word the questions because they had very little & they were hoping he would mess up.He didn't thought.He beat them at their own game.Clinton is accused of being sneaky because he found ways around answering questions w/out taking the 5th & attempting to protect himself,yet Ken Starr does the same type of lawyer tricks re-wording questions & its okay.Like I said,with Republicans there are 2 sets of rules.Clinton slippery talked himself out of questions that had nothing to do with anything except to bring him down & Ken Starr wanted Clinton to help him bring himself down.

Example,Clinton answered the definition of what he considers oral sex by Ken Starr's definition that was in the written deposition(this is why he kept referring to it & rarely asked for his own lawyer to help advise)Clinton's answer was by what Ken Star considered oral sex,not Clinton's.These questions had no business being asked(all this time & energy & we had terrorist plotting an attack.Maybe if more time was focused on security & less on Clinton's penis those 2 towers would still be standing)

History will judge Clinton as being a great President.I love how Clinton ahters claim" The good economy under Clinton was thanks to Reagan & Bush & the bad economy under Bush jr. is due to Clinton" LOL! Talk about Desperate! Greenspan himslef even admitted the recession began in March of 2001 During the tax cuts! Clinton walked into a mess left by Bush sr.& I didn't hear him bitch & moan.No, he rolled up his sleeves & got to work!

So continue your Clinton bashing.Your credibility is so-so.The more you post, the more you prove my point.

CLINTON HELP US!!!

"I doubt Bush will get the money Clinton got to write his memoirs"...

When he does write his memoirs they will be in short easy to read snipets that the advrage 3rg grader can read.lol

Originally posted by romantico
Whenever Bush is in trouble, drag out Clinton! Clinton is by far one of the best Presidents we have had! OH WOW, CLinton cheated on his wife, what about Newt? What about Rush? What about Neal Bush & God knows how many other Presidents who just were never caught!

You Clinton haters need to GET A LIFE! What part of 8 years of Peace & prosperity didn't you like? This country is in BIG TROUBLE thanks to King George II.

umm.. Clinton signed executive order 12919... NOW do you think he's so great??? Read the whole thing & THEN tell me what u think.... mmmkay?? www.fema.gov/library/eo12919.shtm

Romantico isn't a poster, he's a dodgeball player.

A damn good one too.

I give him 4 things Clinton did while he was in office, horrendous crimes, and does he rebute them?

No, he replies "I'm sick of FM's blind rage".

Well I do urge him now to not only address the allegations against Clinton, but also against me...and my "Blind Rage."

Romantico you just simply are not worth listening to if you don't argue the points...

Just a side note:
Porn is probably in the top 10% of american service industries.

CLinton is the most in demand public speaker & the highest paid President who has spoken

J/K
Clinton commited MANY more crimes than his escape from the banshee Hillary(can't blame him).
Not really the point here though.
Let's stop all of this partisan crap(can I say that?) and get on to the fact that the TWO major parties in America are NOT represetative of the majority of the people.

Dunno' might just be a Conspiracy or something....

I find it odd you poke fun at the Current President when the last President ruined our Nation.

But then as usual representatives of the Liberal side, when it comes to facing facts and reality, RUN THE OTHER WAY!

It would be hilarious if anyone of you can name a president who didn't mess up our nation in one way or another.

Except for Washington