It just doesn't happen

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: TzarChasm

Unless you found a email address or a phone number hidden in your DNA that connects to the HR department of heaven, evolution is not a divine miracle or anything supernatural at all. And leaving a calling card like that would definitely suggest intelligent design.

I don't think you'd wanna find that in your DNA!

But if you're really interested the Lord of Hosts has provided that as well.

You're catching on Chaz. You just might make HR 1st class after all.

That book doesn't have any of the answers I'm asking about, and it was most certainly not written with the 21st century in mind.

a reply to: toktaylor

• Is the platypus an example of God’s creativity in mixing genes, or a surviving transitional form that proves birds and mammals once shared a common ancestor? (It has the body of a mammal, but the sex genes of a bird.)

The platypus is a mammal. Nothing transitional going on there.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: toktaylor

• Is the platypus an example of God’s creativity in mixing genes, or a surviving transitional form that proves birds and mammals once shared a common ancestor? (It has the body of a mammal, but the sex genes of a bird.)

The platypus is a mammal. Nothing transitional going on there.

I know you already said that you are interested only in absolute victory and being completely right, but what if we shared with you concrete evidence of evolution happening today in front of the whole world and you couldn't explain it away as a divine miracle? Could you see any possibility of accepting evolution as a compelling theory?

a reply to: TzarChasm

That book doesn't have any of the answers I'm asking about, and it was most certainly not written with the 21st century in mind.

You wanted a phone number? It will teach you to pray.
You wanted an address? It will show you the way.
And it has everything to do with today.

What am I gonna do with you Chaz?

a reply to: TzarChasm

I know you already said that you are interested only in absolute victory and being completely right, but what if we shared with you concrete evidence of evolution happening today in front of the whole world and you couldn't explain it away as a divine miracle? Could you see any possibility of accepting evolution as a compelling theory?

In a perfect world that might be possible. But in this world
we live in where men are constantly deceiving one another?
Not just no but hell no. I would never be able to deny Christ.
Not gonna happen.

I know you already said that you are interested only in absolute victory and being completely right

I am interested in absolute victory i suppose. But being right is not
what I'm after. Being right and victorious are simply required before
I can even begin to see the goal I pursue. Even if I'm wasting my time
I can't think of a better way to waste it.

So ya there ya go. I'm hopeless!

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: toktaylor
a reply to: carsforkids

If Intelligent Design proponents are willing to accept that an extremely complex entity (God) can exist free of any intelligent forces, then they must also logically conclude that less complex entities (the Universe, atoms, man, etc.) could also exist free of any intelligent agents.

This is why God is considered "un-beggotten", which means God was never born because God always existed (Alpha-Omega). Therefore, God never had to come to be, because God always was and always will be. We struggle to fully fathom this concept because we are so familiar with the restrictions of time and space in our current dimension.

Your cult has been rejected by every Christian religion on the planet. You are a CULT, an evil cult, perpetrating lies.
You use Jesus as your prop when, in fact, Jesus would have nothing to do with you.

Whatever god you're worshiping, it's a god of lies and deceit.

a reply to: Phantom423

That's actually the god of your world. The world of science.

a reply to: carsforkids

Is that not Lord Shiva?

Dude in the statue is Baphomet i think.

a reply to: andy06shake

I'm pretty sure it's actually a throne.

originally posted by: Phantom423

Your cult has been rejected by every Christian religion on the planet. You are a CULT, an evil cult, perpetrating lies.
You use Jesus as your prop when, in fact, Jesus would have nothing to do with you.

Whatever god you're worshiping, it's a god of lies and deceit.

Yikes, I express truth as best I can, you tend to resort to insult so it gets to be impossible to even discuss truth with you. Angry insult and mockery is far from truth.

originally posted by: toktaylor
a reply to: cooperton

Except there is no intelligence to the Universe or evolution. It is all random design of trial and error over millions of years.

There is no intelligence in evolutionary theory, but our world is beaming with intelligence. Intelligence in gravitational and molecular equations. Intelligence in biochemical kinetics, morphogenics, and branching patterns. Since we see an abundance of intelligence, even in our own ability to rationalize and be intelligent creatures, we must conclude that there is intelligence. To think otherwise is by definition unintelligent.

e.g. a flightless birds.

Take the wings off an ostrich and see how deficient it is.

It might make sense from a design prospective, but from an evolutionary prospective, evolution must use what’s already there.

Yet there's no known mechanism that can add function through random mutation. It has never been exhibited and is simply not how we see genetic mechanisms work. All genetics involve pre-determined mechanisms that allow organisms to adapt, but it is reversible as is shown in antibiotic resistance in microbes

Does a whale have arms, wrists and 5 fingers just like a mammal because it’s more creative than giving him fins, or because they gradually evolved from arms and hands? Likewise, does it breathe air because it’s more creative to make a “fish” that can’t breathe underwater, or because it once breathed air as a land animal?

Mammals are higher cognitively functioning organisms... For a mammal to evolve via evolution mechanisms to allow it to go back into water is absolutely absurd and unfounded in the fossil record. It is sheer fantasy. It is not as though mammals are dying in the thousands trying to re-enter the ocean to find a more habitable home, and then somehow generating the proper neurological and anatomical functions necessary to inhabit the waters permanently. Especially given the lack of data that would allow new morphological traits that would allow such a drastic transition.

a reply to: carsforkids

A throne eh?

Well if it is, stuff taking a crap there, fellow does not look the type to be handing oot bog roll if you ken what i mean.

a reply to: cooperton

All lies. Not worth addressing. You convince no one.

originally posted by: carsforkids
The massive stone work found across the globe suggest a higher intelligence than our
own. And they all worshiped gods for some reason other than just making
them up out of thin air and lies.

How does it suggest a higher intelligence than our own? Why not an intelligence generally equal to our own? Science tells us that our ancestors who built the earliest stone structures we can still see today generally had the same intelligence as we do.

It was Homo sapiens who built the ancient civilization; they were modern humans, which is also what we are. Granted, homo sapiens might be gaining intelligence in a gradual manner as time goes on, but the people who built that stonework were relatively recent (say within the past 12,000 years), and almost certainly had brains and intelligence that were virtually identical to ours. Science does not refute this. But there is no reason to believe they were more intelligent than us.

They were intelligent enough (just like we are) to work at something like stone masonry long enough to have gained a hands-on expertise to be able to do great things with stone -- such as build a massive pyramid or a tight-jointed wall.

I'm sure their thousands of years of hands-on experience resulted in advanced stone-working knowledge. They were just as intelligent as we are, so I have no doubt that a few thousand years of working with stone would result in them using that intelligence to figure out "hacks" (using a modern definition of that word) to stoneworking that allowed them to be extremely proficient at it. More proficient than we are, since our lives today do not revolve around stoneworking.

Some of those hacks (i.e., techniques, tricks, tips, and other stone-working knowledge) have been lost to us over the millennia -- but that knowledge has been lost due to time, not lost due to diminishing human intelligence.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

All lies. Not worth addressing. You convince no one.

It appears as though I've silenced the opposition. Remember Phantom, this is good news that evolutionary theory is wrong, it means we aren't some mutant accident void of meaning, instead we have the ability to find the enduring Truth that never dies.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Tend to agree its humanity's technological base that seems to rise and fall with the pass of the epochs as opposed to there being giants and/or Nephilim responsible for the remains and structures found aka the likes of the Stone of the Pregnant Woman or even the Pyramids.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

All lies. Not worth addressing. You convince no one.

It appears as though I've silenced the opposition. Remember Phantom, this is good news that evolutionary theory is wrong, it means we aren't some mutant accident void of meaning, instead we have the ability to find the enduring Truth that never dies.

You convince no one. You're a pathological liar. Just like this jailbird:

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

All lies. Not worth addressing. You convince no one.

it means we aren't some mutant accident void of meaning...

Humanity as a whole and individual humans can give themselves whatever meaning they choose. There doesn't need to be someone/something else forcing their own idea of meaning upon humanity.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: TzarChasm

That book doesn't have any of the answers I'm asking about, and it was most certainly not written with the 21st century in mind.

You wanted a phone number? It will teach you to pray.
You wanted an address? It will show you the way.
And it has everything to do with today.

What am I gonna do with you Chaz?

No. It doesn't have any of the answers I was asking about. In fact it appears to be a very obsolete and unhelpful answering machine that isn't made for taking requests but making excuses for why no one is around to take a call. It is that little sign in the emergency room door that says "out to lunch" and you just wait...and wait...

Studying evolution has given us the tools to step around this so called God creature to build our own technology and save our own souls. We don't need any mercy or salvation. And we sure as hell don't need you to agree with us. Feel free to disapprove and criticize for all the good it does you.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People


Humanity as a whole and individual humans can give themselves whatever meaning they choose. There doesn't need to be someone/something else forcing their own idea of meaning upon humanity.

If we are mutant monkey accidents then our conscious thing we call 'self' will return back to eternal nothingness and nothing we do will matter because the entirety of all humanity will inevitably join the same fate. This is a horrid philosophy and it all stems from the inane belief that we intelligent organic supercomputers called humans are somehow random accidents derived from mutant pond goo.

Luckily to anyone who searches diligently enough, they will find there is no evidence for evolutionary theory, and instead they will see the endless array of intelligent design exhibited all throughout the biological world. To understand self and our relation with the Creator of these things is the meaning of life, and it generates a realization of the eternal blossom that awaits those who look for truth without bias. This is not the end, it is just the beginning.

a reply to: toktaylor

So looking at the complexity of a single cell (www.youtube.com...) you think this all came together by accident/chance? To me that requires a much larger leap of faith than believing in a Creator.

What you see in that video is happening right now in the Trillions and Trillions of cells in your body. In the days when the theory of Evolution was developed they could not see that detail. Do you think they would have come to the same conclusions if they could view the details we see today?

I have never understood the argument between Evolution and Creation. I view them as one in the same. God's creative technique in Time and Space is Evolution. I think a better term is Progressive Evolution. Evolution is a technique that enables life to unfold and adapt to the given planetary environment. There are Trillions of inhabited planets in the universe and the mortal type of life must be able to adapt to the differing environments (gravity, temperature, atmosphere, etc)

We are a type of creation that must learn everything, must experience everything. We have plenty of examples on Earth of animals and insects that are born ready to go. Very little learning seems to be required. I am sure they do gain knowledge from actual experience but for the most part they are born fully developed for their life.

There are orders of beings, like Seraphim, who are created fully developed. They had no childhood, but they do gain knowledge from experience. For nothing can replace actual experience. To me it shows that if God wants/needs to create a fully developed being he can. We are not that type of being. We are meant to grow through our choices using our free will.

I think you should check out The Urantia Book (www.urantia.org...). Particularly the first 5 papers. They describe in great detail the nature and attributes of God (The Universal Father). IMO, all other religious texts give, at best, a meager description of God. How can you form an opinion of God without all of the info?

A lot of the people I have talked to about this base their concepts of God on a very small amount of information. They usually fall back to saying something like "if God exists, why all the suffering and evil in the world?". Its a fair question and The Urantia Book has a plausible explanation for that in my opinion.

I like to call out the below quote as part of the answer to that question.

This is from Paper 3, title The Attributes of God.

" The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

1. Is courage—strength of character—desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

2. Is altruism—service of one’s fellows—desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

3. Is hope—the grandeur of trust—desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

4. Is faith—the supreme assertion of human thought—desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

6. Is idealism—the approaching concept of the divine—desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.

7. Is loyalty—devotion to highest duty—desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

8. Is unselfishness—the spirit of self-forgetfulness—desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

9. Is pleasure—the satisfaction of happiness—desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities."